Preview Pick your team for R1, 2017

[GROTTO]

FB: Brown, Talia, Laird
HB: Lever, Hartigan, Hampton
C: Atkins, Sloane, Smith
HF: McGovern, Walker, Lynch
FF: Cameron, Jenkins, Betts
R: Jacobs, Brouch, Mrouch
IC: Milera, Doedee, Seedsman, Menzel

 

[GROTTO]

Cooked
5 Thommo
14 MacKay
22 Otten

 

[Alwaysacrow]

Off subject; something that is pissing me off big time is a BWS Bundaberg add that keeps interfering with my reading/posting. It's on the bottom of my screen of my android phone and I swear I haven't touched it but sometimes it will arc up and when I go to switch it off sometimes I have to open up the whole thread again?! Is anybody having the same problem or just me?

Thanks 1990 Crow and Ramify for your response but any idea how to piss that BWS thing off altogether? I'm totally over it.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

You're talking about someone who is about 3-5cms shorter then Tex (seeing natural variation) and closer to 10cm against Jenkins. Doesn't matter if he plays taller or not, put him up against some of the best tall defenders in the league and despite his skill as an aerialist, i don't believe he'll survive, let alone thrive; seeing it's negating his main weapon, and if he is going to be a permanent forward he has to take one of these two spots.

His future as a forward is in that 3rd/4th tall position, and for that position to truly work he needs to add something else to his bow. His skillset works well for a pinch hitting winger/midfield rotation which gives him a backup option if he's is being well held, and allows another dimension to our side that it'll offer. One that our side sorely needs.

In a weird twist of irony, i can't see him being that special forward you reckon he'll become without adding this element to his game due to the flexibility it'll allow.

Disagree completely

And I'd prefer to talk in regions of the field rather than 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th tall

Ie I think he's great inside 50 vs higher up the ground and I don't think the tape measurement has anything to do with it

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Agree. Play MM deep forward more often and get Jenkins on his bike up the field.

Exactly !!

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I see Gov as a guy whose confidence is suspect. He may even have imposter syndrome in that I dont even think he beleives he is as good as we believe (at least speaking for myself).

Point being on any given day he needs to get his hands on it early and often. The more he gets his hands on it the better he goes and on a good day he looks elite. But if he has a good game this week it doesnt feel like he takes that confidence into the next week.

Keeping him deep may starve him of early ball and in-game confidence that he needs. Let him roam and get those lead up marks where he links beautifully to attack and then send him deep to do the damage he can do at FF. He will be a difficult match up if we release his shackles. A much easier beast to tame if you put him in a box and say stay in the goal square your a FF.

You are coming to conclusions too early , he's 1 yr in , give him another 30 games

 

[marty36]

You are coming to conclusions too early , he's 1 yr in , give him another 30 games

Agree only having one real season at AFL level he will either find consistency and become a very good player, or fail to find consistency and that will be the end. All new players go through it even McLeod had to find consistency

It's the next step in his development lets hope he makes it

 

[Elite Crow]

Thanks 1990 Crow and Ramify for your response but any idea how to piss that BWS thing off altogether? I'm totally over it.

Pay to be a member

 

[lunacy]

Well what do you think we ought to do then?

1. Do nothing and defend Brown's spot in the side because he's a good bloke and because of past good form? Do we blame him playing injured or a whipping boy like Cheney/Mackay instead when the small forwards kick a bag? It seems like some are happy to do this.
2. Do we make his job easier and change our game plan to stop all these pesky little smalls from having field days against us (be it through better team defence, particularly through the midfield, or compromising to some extent on the defender-pushing up, slingshot-style footy of last year)? I suspect this is your choice, judging by your last sentence, and I probably also like this option the most personally.
3. Or do we keep playing the slingshot footy, accept that the small forwards will kill us regardless of the quality of the lockdown defender and drop Brown (or perhaps Cheney, or both) for someone who offers us more in terms of counter-attacking play, such as Hampton, Wigg, or possibly Doedee/Gallucci? Not sure why it's so outrageous to consider this option, as Brown looks to be pretty limited in terms of rebounding ability.

I'm definitely not against us playing Brown because I think he's a good lockdown defender (which we saw in the Sando/Walsh days), but if he has to do more than be a lockdown defender (ie rebound), then I think we're better off playing someone else in his spot. I think if we're playing Brown (likely), it means our team defensive structure needs significant improvement.

I'm simply saying Brown is a bloody good defender and a lot of his goals against would have been in transition after a turnover up the ground and our midfield's terrible defensive pressure allowing for easy opposition goals when our defenders are relatively out of position.
Brown rarely loses direct one on ones even against the most dangerous small forwards in the game. It's usually on transition and turnovers up the ground where Brown gets let down by players up further up the field.
So in a nutshell. I wouldn't do anything about Brown and I'm not worried about Brown. He is not the issue and we'd be further exposed against the likes of Wingard, Rioli etc without Brown in the side.
Hopefully guys like Charlie, Knight, Hampton, Milera etc help our midfield defensive pressure up the ground and the ball comes into our def 50 a lot messier.

 

[Murray2503]

Squald of 24 for first game:
Sloane
Smith
O'brien
Jacobs
Cameron
Hartigan
Jenkins
Walker
Betts
Laird
Lever
B Crouch
M Crouch
Talia
McGovern
Atkins
Lynch
Cheney
Seedsman
Hampton
Menzel
Yolmen
Knight
Doedee

 

[marty36]

Squald of 24 for first game:
Sloane
Smith
O'brien
Jacobs
Cameron
Hartigan
Jenkins
Walker
Betts
Laird
Lever
B Crouch
M Crouch
Talia
McGovern
Atkins
Lynch
Cheney
Seedsman
Hampton
Menzel
Yolmen
Knight
Doedee

3 glaring omissions Douglass, Thommo, Mackay . Can understand why you wouldn't have Thommo and Mackay, but no hope in hell Diuglass won't be in a squad of 24. He had a reasonable year and will offer more to winning an AFL game than up to 10 of those players picked

 

[Elite Crow]

I'm watching a bit of the last years first showdown. Douglas was playing mid so at some stage in the year the club decided he wasn't cutting it in there and moved him to the half forward line.

So unless they decide to put him back in the midfield, the decision needs to be made do we have better half forward options than a midfielder who wasn't cutting it as a midfielder. Personally I'd prefer playing a forward up forward.

Hopefully Menzel is that guy. I know which player will give opposition teams more of a headache. At the moment they'd spend 2 secs worrying about Douglas up forward.

 

[Jars458]

FB: Brown, Talia, Hampton
HB: Lever, Hartigan, Smith
C: Atkins, Sloane, Cameron
HF: McGovern, Walker, Lynch
FF: Knight, Jenkins, Betts
R: Jacobs, B Crouch, Laird
IC: Milera, O'Brien, M Crouch, Seedsman

 

[marty36]

I'm watching a bit of the last years first showdown. Douglas was playing mid so at some stage in the year the club decided he wasn't cutting it in there and moved him to the half forward line.

So unless they decide to put him back in the midfield, the decision needs to be made do we have better half forward options than a midfielder who wasn't cutting it as a midfielder. Personally I'd prefer playing a forward up forward.

Hopefully Menzel is that guy. I know which player will give opposition teams more of a headache. At the moment they'd spend 2 secs worrying about Douglas up forward.

Really didn't see Menzel be considered last year to make the 22, I agree Menzel did show something at Carlton did a few good things in the magoos but wasn't consistent enough to warrant a spot in the A's, he will need to prove he doesn't go missing in the pre season comp to be considered an A grader, ATM Douglass is proven to be a far better option however that could change, but Menzel will have to prove it, not because of your gut feel

 

[Shaz2012]

Really didn't see Menzel be considered last year to make the 22, I agree Menzel did show something at Carlton did a few good things in the magoos but wasn't consistent enough to warrant a spot in the A's, he will need to prove he doesn't go missing in the pre season comp to be considered an A grader, ATM Douglass is proven to be a far better option however that could change, but Menzel will have to prove it, not because of your gut feel

Needs to be given an opportunity in our A's to be able to prove himself. Douglas has to prove that he is still the player that he was 2 years ago. Last season he didn't impress probably only held his spot based on his history. If Menzel is close to Douglas, you go with the younger developing player as those games you put into him could pay us back in 2 or 3 years time when Douglas is retired.

 

[marty36]

Needs to be given an opportunity in our A's to be able to prove himself. Douglas has to prove that he is still the player that he was 2 years ago. Last season he didn't impress probably only held his spot based on his history. If Menzel is close to Douglas, you go with the younger developing player as those games you put into him could pay us back in 2 or 3 years time when Douglas is retired.

I have no doubt Nenzel and a number of other players will be given opportunities preseason, it won't be a huge window so they would want to make every post a winner, the pressure will be on. If they can't handle that pressure then I won't feel sorry for them, some will make it some will stumble

 

[Shaz2012]

I have no doubt Nenzel and a number of other players will be given opportunities preseason, it won't be a huge window so they would want to make every post a winner, the pressure will be on. If they can't handle that pressure then I won't feel sorry for them, some will make it some will stumble

Yep. Dont disagree with that. But I cant say I am overly confident that everyone will be given opportunities. The coach had his mind set on his best players and didn't really move off that. We played guys through injury niggles and massive form dips. We had the smallest use of players but not sure if that was because we didnt drop players when they deserved it. Thought a number of players should have been given rests or time in the 2s to get back up to form, which would have given opportunities to other players. Everybody here wants to blame Camporeale for some of this - which may be the case. But I will wait to see. To me Pyke looks like a pretty conservative coach who wont change things up too much.

 

[Hank93]

Menzel would have to put in some enormous performances in the trial games to be in contention.

Don't think he even made the emergencies last year.

Clearly low in the pecking order.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Menzel would have to put in some enormous performances in the trial games to be in contention.

Don't think he even made the emergencies last year.

Clearly low in the pecking order.

Different story this year as unlike last year, he is actually having a full preseason. Touch wood.

I expect Menzel will be in the mix for the last few spots.

 

[Shaz2012]

Menzel would have to put in some enormous performances in the trial games to be in contention.

Don't think he even made the emergencies last year.

Clearly low in the pecking order.

We need significant improvement in our side from last season if we are to be a threat on the flag. If we want to analyse the games that count, we need to focus on our performances against teams in the top 7 (North Melbourne can be excluded in my opinion). Including finals, we won 3, lost 6. Forget about all the other games, they just earn us a ticket to the show. But in these games that count, we have win to loss ratio of 1:2. Thats not good.

In the really demoralising losses, the ones that we really looked like pretenders, we were clearly outclassed in the midfield. But our forward system that was so celebrated was also shut down. Geelong, WCE and Sydney all held us to 72 & 55, 71 and 82 points respectively. So where is this improvement going to come from? We all know that organic growth alone isnt going to close this gap. So we need a change in personnel. This is why we need to hope and pray that Menzel is up to the job of replacing Douglas. As you and Marty point out, there is nothing really suggesting that he can make the kind of difference that we need from him. But its really just a matter of necessity.

We need players to come in and do what we were not able to get out of Douglas, Mackay, Thompson and Lyons last season. If Milera is going to be a 200 game superstar, we NEED him to jump his development curve and deliver next year. We also need Lever to take the next giant step. We also NEED both Crouch brothers to step up and at least break even against Geelong, WCE and Sydney midfield on any given day.

This is why I give Menzel so much expectation, whether he has earnt it or not. Because to not be thinking of how we can win the flag is pointless and he gives me the hope that the current alternative doesnt. I dont think we will win a flag with Douglas, Mackay and Thompson in our 22. We might not win one with their replacements either, but I think that their replacements (along with Lyons replacement) may have the capacity to improve upon the ceilings that these 4 had.

 

[Elite Crow]

We need significant improvement in our side from last season if we are to be a threat on the flag. If we want to analyse the games that count, we need to focus on our performances against teams in the top 7 (North Melbourne can be excluded in my opinion). Including finals, we won 3, lost 6. Forget about all the other games, they just earn us a ticket to the show. But in these games that count, we have win to loss ratio of 1:2. Thats not good.

In the really demoralising losses, the ones that we really looked like pretenders, we were clearly outclassed in the midfield. But our forward system that was so celebrated was also shut down. Geelong, WCE and Sydney all held us to 72 & 55, 71 and 82 points respectively. So where is this improvement going to come from? We all know that organic growth alone isnt going to close this gap. So we need a change in personnel. This is why we need to hope and pray that Menzel is up to the job of replacing Douglas. As you and Marty point out, there is nothing really suggesting that he can make the kind of difference that we need from him. But its really just a matter of necessity.

We need players to come in and do what we were not able to get out of Douglas, Mackay, Thompson and Lyons last season. If Milera is going to be a 200 game superstar, we NEED him to jump his development curve and deliver next year. We also need Lever to take the next giant step. We also NEED both Crouch brothers to step up and at least break even against Geelong, WCE and Sydney midfield on any given day.

This is why I give Menzel so much expectation, whether he has earnt it or not. Because to not be thinking of how we can win the flag is pointless and he gives me the hope that the current alternative doesnt. I dont think we will win a flag with Douglas, Mackay and Thompson in our 22. We might not win one with their replacements either, but I think that their replacements (along with Lyons replacement) may have the capacity to improve upon the ceilings that these 4 had.

You've nailed it

 

[1970crow]

Different story this year as unlike last year, he is actually having a full preseason. Touch wood.

I expect Menzel will be in the mix for the last few spots.

Amazing how easily a pre-Xmas operation, limited preseason and a couple of bouts of concussion can be completely forgotten.

 

[marty36]

We need significant improvement in our side from last season if we are to be a threat on the flag. If we want to analyse the games that count, we need to focus on our performances against teams in the top 7 (North Melbourne can be excluded in my opinion). Including finals, we won 3, lost 6. Forget about all the other games, they just earn us a ticket to the show. But in these games that count, we have win to loss ratio of 1:2. Thats not good.

In the really demoralising losses, the ones that we really looked like pretenders, we were clearly outclassed in the midfield. But our forward system that was so celebrated was also shut down. Geelong, WCE and Sydney all held us to 72 & 55, 71 and 82 points respectively. So where is this improvement going to come from? We all know that organic growth alone isnt going to close this gap. So we need a change in personnel. This is why we need to hope and pray that Menzel is up to the job of replacing Douglas. As you and Marty point out, there is nothing really suggesting that he can make the kind of difference that we need from him. But its really just a matter of necessity.

We need players to come in and do what we were not able to get out of Douglas, Mackay, Thompson and Lyons last season. If Milera is going to be a 200 game superstar, we NEED him to jump his development curve and deliver next year. We also need Lever to take the next giant step. We also NEED both Crouch brothers to step up and at least break even against Geelong, WCE and Sydney midfield on any given day.

This is why I give Menzel so much expectation, whether he has earnt it or not. Because to not be thinking of how we can win the flag is pointless and he gives me the hope that the current alternative doesnt. I dont think we will win a flag with Douglas, Mackay and Thompson in our 22. We might not win one with their replacements either, but I think that their replacements (along with Lyons replacement) may have the capacity to improve upon the ceilings that these 4 had.

We all know where we need improvement and it's clear as gladwrap and the club has backed the crouch boys to provide it, they actually could do it

Forward line elite backline solid those few games we struggled we all know it was in the mid


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ad victoriam]

I'm watching a bit of the last years first showdown. Douglas was playing mid so at some stage in the year the club decided he wasn't cutting it in there and moved him to the half forward line.

So unless they decide to put him back in the midfield, the decision needs to be made do we have better half forward options than a midfielder who wasn't cutting it as a midfielder. Personally I'd prefer playing a forward up forward.

Hopefully Menzel is that guy. I know which player will give opposition teams more of a headache. At the moment they'd spend 2 secs worrying about Douglas up forward.

The Crows were leaking Goals from our Forward line early in 2016 Pyke tweak the game plan part of that was playing Douglas as a defensive forward, with the occasional run in the middle.

 

[19thcrow]

B: Laird Talia Lever
HB: Hampton Hartigan Smith
C: Cameron BCrouch Lynch
HF: Knight Walker Milera
F: McGovern Jenkins Betts
R: Jacobs Sloane MCrouch
I/C: Atkins CEY Doedee Douglas

I'd like to see Beech, Menzel, ROB, Gallucci and Dear all really press for selection as pressure for spots is exactly what we need.

Mackay, Thompson, Seedsman and Brown I'd be happy if they all played SANFL all year as 3 are Spuds and Thompson is past his best.

Laird trailed in midfield would be something I'd like to see maybe a 60% defence 40% midfield. Smith to stay in defense as he is easily tagged out in midfield. Hampton excites me he will be a good addition to def/mid if he stays fit. Lever to step up another level in 2017 no doubt.