Picking an all-time CFC lineup

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jsdsgn

jsdsgn

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The team of the century no doubt needs to be updated and it interested me to see what players of the 21st century might come in, as well as any omissions from the original team which could be added in hindsight.

The team of the century is as follows:

B: Harold Rumney - Jack Regan - Syd Coventry (C)
HB: Billy Picken - Albert Collier - Nathan Buckley
C: Thorold Merrett - Bob Rose - Darren Millane
R: Len Thompson - Des Tuddenham - Harry Collier
HF: Des Fothergill - Murray Weideman - Dick Lee
F: Phonse Kyne - Gordon Coventry - Peter Daicos
I: Tony Shaw - Wayne Richardson - Marcus Whelan - Gavin Brown

The players I would consider to be the absolute, unmovable locks of this team are Regan, Coventry x2, Fothergill, Collier x2, Millane, Rose, Pendlebury, Thompson, Buckley, Lee and Daicos. Several others would be very unlucky to be omitted.

Some notes:
- Buckley will have to stay half back line due to the liimted backman that deserve selection.
- Since the team was made, Pendlebury and Swan are the only ones who should be definitely included. Clement is very close. Players such as Didak would also go close but not quite.
- Of the original team, maybe Richardson and Whelan were probably pretty lucky, despite being incredible players. Merrett is another one who could lose his spot. Rumney's position isnt 100 percent safe either, however the lack of all-time great small defenders (at least compared to our mids/fwds) means he will has a better chance than the others of staying in.
- The biggest omission at the time was Peter McKenna who is better than most of the entire team. He should be in this team, on the field. Peter Moore is another one who stakes a great claim, and Ron Todd who probably didnt play enough games but made a huge impact.
- Gavin Brown easily makes this team, and is a versatile player who could swing back to fill a hole left by the potential omission of Rumney, something he did often in his career.
- After a debate in the comments, I have brought in John Greening, Peter Moore and Ron Todd.

Revised team (post 2020):

B: Albert Collier - Jack Regan - Syd Coventry (C)
HB: Nathan Buckley (VC) - Peter Moore - Gavin Brown
C: John Greening - Bob Rose - Darren Millane
R: Len Thompson - Scott Pendlebury - Harry Collier
HF: Des Fothergill - Murray Weideman - Dick Lee
F: Peter McKenna - Gordon Coventry - Peter Daicos
I: Dane Swan - Des Tuddenham - Ron Todd - Tony Shaw
Coach: Jock McHale

Changes:
Out: Richardson, Whelan, Merrett, Rumney, Kyne, Picken
In: McKenna, Swan, Pendlebury, Todd, Greening, Moore

Richardson and Shaw are the unlickiest to miss the team.

I personally believe Daicos is the best player we have ever had.

When we make our team of the 21st century in 2099 (right around the corner), the players Ive seen so far this century that I could already pencil into that team would be Swan, Pendlebury, Didak, Clement and Buckley. Sidebottom goes close but unlikely. Grundy the leading ruck at this stage.

Remember, this is all subjective, opinion based.
 
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jsdsgn said:
The team of the century no doubt needs to be updated and it interested me to see what players of the 21st century might come in, as well as any omissions from the original team which could be added in hindsight.

The team of the century is as follows:

B: Harold Rumney - Jack Regan - Syd Coventry (C)
HB: Billy Picken - Albert Collier - Nathan Buckley
C: Thorold Merrett - Bob Rose - Darren Millane
R: Len Thompson - Des Tuddenham - Harry Collier
HF: Des Fothergill - Murray Weideman - Dick Lee
F: Phonse Kyne - Gordon Coventry - Peter Daicos
I: Tony Shaw - Wayne Richardson - Marcus Whelan - Gavin Brown

The players I would consider to be the absolute, unmovable locks of this team are Regan, Coventry x2, Picken, Collier x2, Millane, Rose, Pendlebury, Thompson, Buckley, Lee, Daicos and Shaw. Several others would be very unlucky to be omitted.

Some notes:
- Buckley made the half back line relatively early in his career and should be moved into the midfield
- Since the team was made, Pendlebury and Swan are the only ones who should be definitely included. Players such as Didak would go close but not quite.
- Of the original team, maybe Richardson and Whelan were probably pretty lucky, despite being incredible players. Merrett is another one who could lose his spot. Rumney's position isnt 100 percent safe either, however the lack of all-time great small defenders (at least compared to our mids/fwds) means he will be unlucky to miss.
- The biggest omission at the time was Peter McKenna who is better than most of the entire team. He should be in this team, on the field. Peter Moore is another one who stakes a great claim.
- Gavin Brown easily makes this team, and is a versatile player who could swing back to fill a hole left by Buckley' positional change or the potential omission of Rumney, something he did often in his career.

Revised team (post 2020):

B: Harold Rumney - Jack Regan - Syd Coventry (C)
HB: Billy Picken - Albert Collier - Gavin Brown
C: Scott Pendlebury - Bob Rose - Darren Millane
R: Len Thompson - Nathan Buckley (VC) - Harry Collier
HF: Des Fothergill - Murray Weideman - Dick Lee
F: Peter McKenna - Gordon Coventry - Peter Daicos
I: Dane Swan - Des Tuddenham - Tony Shaw - Phonse Kyne
Coach: Jock McHale

Changes:
Out: Richardson, Whelan, Merrett
In: McKenna, Swan, Pendlebury

Luckiest to make the team are Moore, Swan and Rumney.
Unluckiest to miss the team are Moore, Richardson, Whelan and Merrett amongst a few others, with Richardson extremely stiff.

I personally believe Rose and Daicos are the two best players we have ever had.

James Clement is one of the biggest 'what ifs' of the modern era who couldve made the team if he played with us for longer. He is one of the best defenders I have ever seen.

When we make our team of the 21st century in 2099 (right around the corner), the players Ive seen so far this century that I could already pencil into that team would be Swan, Pendlebury, Didak and Buckley. Sidebottom and Clement close but unlikely. Grundy the leading ruck at this stage.

Remember, this is all subjective, opinion based.
Click to expand...

How is Rumney in the team? 170 games and 1 best and fairest in the 1920's? Easy to replace him with Clement or even Heath Shaw
 

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Kappa said:
How is Rumney in the team? 170 games and 1 best and fairest in the 1920's? Easy to replace him with Clement or even Heath Shaw
Click to expand...
He mustve been very influential. Shaw or even Clement wouldnt replace him ahead of the guys I listed as unlucky I dont reckon. Id rather put Picken at BP, Buckley back on HB and shuffle around and bring in Wayne Richardson.
I admit, the more I think about it, the closer Clement becomes.
 
Kappa said:
How is Rumney in the team? 170 games and 1 best and fairest in the 1920's? Easy to replace him with Clement or even Heath Shaw
Click to expand...
jsdsgn said:
He mustve been very influential. Shaw or even Clement wouldnt replace him ahead of the guys I listed as unlucky I dont reckon. Id rather put Picken at BP, Buckley back on HB and shuffle around and bring in Wayne Richardson.
I admit, the more I think about it, the closer Clement becomes.
Click to expand...
Harold Rumney had some hot competition for b & f's when he played for Collingwood, with the Collier's and Coventry's winning most of them! So the fact that he won just the one should hardly count against him.

Ron Todd, though he didn't play a huge amount of games for us must have been incredibly good (good enough to kick 11 goals in a Preliminary Final two years in a row) and really should have Murray Weideman's spot. While we have a right to be very annoyed that the AFL TotC selectors got it so wrong in not picking Jack Regan at full-back our own people did something similar by leaving Todd out of the Collingwood team. Sadly, "politics" got in the way with that one, as opposed to straight out bias!

James Clement played 146 games (and for 7 seasons) with us, and I'd say that's more than long enough for him to be picked if deemed good enough. Which he surely was, and I think at his best he had Billy Picken covered.
 
If you’re updating the team of the century, then surely it’s only players who have played these last 20 or so years who come into consideration.

Can’t really update old players with other old players as they haven’t done anything different to push for inclusion. Whether they should have been there in the first place is a different argument.

In terms of this century, Pendles would be the only lock, while Swan and Clement would be talked about.

35Daicos said:
Ron Todd, though he didn't play a huge amount of games for us must have been incredibly good (good enough to kick 11 goals in a Preliminary Final two years in a row) and really should have Murray Weideman's spot. While we have a right to be very annoyed that the AFL TotC selectors got it so wrong in not picking Jack Regan at full-back our own people did something similar by leaving Todd out of the Collingwood team. Sadly, "politics" got in the way with that one, as opposed to straight out bias!
Click to expand...

He was in the team of the century, but was pulled at the last minute due to the long held grudge by one of the selectors (Jock McHale).
 
Visions said:
If you’re updating the team of the century, then surely it’s only players who have played these last 20 or so years who come into consideration.

Can’t really update old players with other old players as they haven’t done anything different to push for inclusion. Whether they should have been there in the first place is a different argument.

In terms of this century, Pendles would be the only lock, while Swan and Clement would be talked about.



He was in the team of the century, but was pulled at the last minute due to the long held grudge by one of the selectors (Jock McHale).
Click to expand...

Swan is comfortably a lock, was the best player in the AFL during his prime.

Some of those blocks made the team off 150 games in the 1920's... Swan won a Brownlow in the professional era.
 
Visions said:
If you’re updating the team of the century, then surely it’s only players who have played these last 20 or so years who come into consideration.

Can’t really update old players with other old players as they haven’t done anything different to push for inclusion. Whether they should have been there in the first place is a different argument.

In terms of this century, Pendles would be the only lock, while Swan and Clement would be talked about.



He was in the team of the century, but was pulled at the last minute due to the long held grudge by one of the selectors (Jock McHale).
Click to expand...

Where did you get the notion that Jock McHale Jr held a grudge against Ron Todd? Sounds like b/s to me.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

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This will sound like sacrilege to many, but I certainly don't have Millane as an 'unmoveable lock' in this team.

I absolutely loved him as a player, but as a lock in the centreline of our all time team is too much for me. He was only half way through his career and could well have gone on to cement such a lofty evaluation, but I would certainly have Buckley, Pendlebury and also Swan ahead of Pants as a starting mid from my time watching. Of course, he was a classic wingman where those others were all more centres and ruck rovers so he does have that advantage.

Visions said:
In terms of this century, Pendles would be the only lock, while Swan and Clement would be talked about.
Click to expand...

Agree that Pendles is the only lock to come in. I would probably put Swan in as well but as much as I love Clement I couldn't find a place for him. He'd be exactly the type of selection that in decades to come future supporters would ask why he was in there, much the same as we're now saying about the likes of Rumney and Whelan.
 
jsdsgn said:
The team of the century no doubt needs to be updated and it interested me to see what players of the 21st century might come in, as well as any omissions from the original team which could be added in hindsight.

The team of the century is as follows:

B: Harold Rumney - Jack Regan - Syd Coventry (C)
HB: Billy Picken - Albert Collier - Nathan Buckley
C: Thorold Merrett - Bob Rose - Darren Millane
R: Len Thompson - Des Tuddenham - Harry Collier
HF: Des Fothergill - Murray Weideman - Dick Lee
F: Phonse Kyne - Gordon Coventry - Peter Daicos
I: Tony Shaw - Wayne Richardson - Marcus Whelan - Gavin Brown

The players I would consider to be the absolute, unmovable locks of this team are Regan, Coventry x2, Picken, Collier x2, Millane, Rose, Pendlebury, Thompson, Buckley, Lee, Daicos and Shaw. Several others would be very unlucky to be omitted.

Some notes:
- Buckley made the half back line relatively early in his career and should be moved into the midfield
- Since the team was made, Pendlebury and Swan are the only ones who should be definitely included. Players such as Didak would go close but not quite.
- Of the original team, maybe Richardson and Whelan were probably pretty lucky, despite being incredible players. Merrett is another one who could lose his spot. Rumney's position isnt 100 percent safe either, however the lack of all-time great small defenders (at least compared to our mids/fwds) means he will be unlucky to miss.
- The biggest omission at the time was Peter McKenna who is better than most of the entire team. He should be in this team, on the field. Peter Moore is another one who stakes a great claim.
- Gavin Brown easily makes this team, and is a versatile player who could swing back to fill a hole left by Buckley' positional change or the potential omission of Rumney, something he did often in his career.

Revised team (post 2020):

B: Harold Rumney - Jack Regan - Syd Coventry (C)
HB: Billy Picken - Albert Collier - Gavin Brown
C: Scott Pendlebury - Bob Rose - Darren Millane
R: Len Thompson - Nathan Buckley (VC) - Harry Collier
HF: Des Fothergill - Murray Weideman - Dick Lee
F: Peter McKenna - Gordon Coventry - Peter Daicos
I: Dane Swan - Des Tuddenham - Tony Shaw - Phonse Kyne
Coach: Jock McHale

Changes:
Out: Richardson, Whelan, Merrett
In: McKenna, Swan, Pendlebury

Luckiest to make the team are Swan and Rumney.
Unluckiest to miss the team are Moore, Richardson, Whelan and Merrett amongst a few others, with Richardson extremely stiff.

I personally believe Rose and Daicos are the two best players we have ever had.

James Clement is one of the biggest 'what ifs' of the modern era who couldve made the team if he played with us for longer. He is one of the best defenders I have ever seen.

When we make our team of the 21st century in 2099 (right around the corner), the players Ive seen so far this century that I could already pencil into that team would be Swan, Pendlebury, Didak and Buckley. Sidebottom and Clement close but unlikely. Grundy the leading ruck at this stage.

Remember, this is all subjective, opinion based.
Click to expand...
James Clement is the best defender to have ever played for Collingwood.

In: Clement
Out: Brown
 
If we are thinking about a team that would win us a flag in today's game:

Of the 'maybes' from above discussion...

Moore definitely 'in' - high leaping ruck who was a genuine forward and would also make it at CHB
(would rather him at CHF/FF changing ruck with Thompson than Weideman as great as he was)

Swan a tough ball magnet
(would rather him than Wayne Richardson for example, and Wayne could easily have won a Brownlow)

Millane is one of the few who could match Dusty for strength

Would also include Greening and Carman for sheer brilliance
(don't know the oldies' records well enough to exit them but both of these guys would cut it today and turn games)

Clement for Picken? Better kick for better mark? Had Picken's 25 on my second Collingwood jumper so I am biased (first, had to unstitch Ray Shaw's 23 because my aunt made a mistake)

He won't get named, but Howe at his best is perfect for today's backline
 
BIGNEDKELLY said:
Jock McHale had passed away 43 years before this team was selected... It was his son John than objected...
Click to expand...
Sorry, I realised that, mistake on my part, should have said Jock McHale Jnr.

sideswipe said:
Where did you get the notion that Jock McHale Jr held a grudge against Ron Todd? Sounds like b/s to me.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

Age article from one of the selectors 7 years ago. He was selected but then omitted because Jock Jnr held a grudge against Todd and got his way.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how-a-magpie-great-lost-his-place-in-team-of-the-century-20130325-2gqap.html
 
Visions said:
Sorry, I realised that, mistake on my part, should have said Jock McHale Jnr.



Age article from one of the selectors 7 years ago. He was selected but then omitted because Jock Jnr held a grudge against Todd and got his way.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how-a-magpie-great-lost-his-place-in-team-of-the-century-20130325-2gqap.html
Click to expand...
Wowsers. I guess I have to accept that but I do find it a little difficult to believe. The reason? Amongst all of the Collingwood photos, etc., Jock Jr had hanging in his billards room, there was only one of a single player - the famous photo of Todd's speccy. Interesting that Trevor Grant called him John. No one ever called him that. Ever. Makes me wonder.

Interesting all the same. Thanks for replying.
 
Visions said:
If you’re updating the team of the century, then surely it’s only players who have played these last 20 or so years who come into consideration.

Can’t really update old players with other old players as they haven’t done anything different to push for inclusion. Whether they should have been there in the first place is a different argument.

In terms of this century, Pendles would be the only lock, while Swan and Clement would be talked about.

He was in the team of the century, but was pulled at the last minute due to the long held grudge by one of the selectors (Jock McHale).
Click to expand...
Yes, that is what I was referring to when I said "Sadly, "politics" got in the way with that one".

While I do agree with the point you make in the first sentence, it does seem that such an injustice was done to Ron Todd back when that team was picked that I would always be hopeful that one day they'd put it right. Whether it's the Team of the Century or an all-time great Collingwood team, he should be in it.
 
Black_White said:
I would put Clement in Pickens place.
Loved Billy, but James was a brick wall.
Click to expand...
Billy's kicking and decision making were terrible but his spectacular marking and ball winning ability obscured these glaring faults to a degree. He would be punished repeatedly for his sloppy skills in today's game.

When I think of a team of the century I imagine the players going up against the modern era and Thorold Merrett was tiny. Wiedeman was a Collingwood 6 footer playing CHF. They were great in their era but I don't think that would translate given the power and size difference in the modern player. If it is based on BF's and Copelands that can be misleading as the players of the 1920's were far smaller and competed with men of a similar stature. I know they are not meant to be matched in this way but I'd see similar problems in any club's TOTC. Jack Dyer was a round 185cm and regarded as a fearsome ruck/key forward. Royce Hart is around 183 cm and was a champion CHF. Would he kick a bag on Noah Balta who has played about 20 games but stands 194cm ,weighs 20 kg more and is probably quicker and more athletic.

Just hypothetical thinking.

I think the current Collingwood team would beat our team of the century for these reasons, even though individually the players in the TOTC were champions in their era.
 
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Since it was published I think Swan and Pendlebury are the only blokes who should be automatically put in. Swan should have been a back-to-back Brownlow winner and Pendlebury is arguably the clubs greatest servant (as a player).

I do agree that Clement should get some consideration. 2 B&F wins and 2 other top-3 finishes in only 147 games here is special. Sad that he retired early, but given it was to support his wife and pursue other interests (he's quite a wheel now!) I don't hold it against him at all
 
sideswipe said:
Wowsers. I guess I have to accept that but I do find it a little difficult to believe. The reason? Amongst all of the Collingwood photos, etc., Jock Jr had hanging in his billards room, there was only one of a single player - the famous photo of Todd's speccy. Interesting that Trevor Grant called him John. No one ever called him that. Ever. Makes me wonder.

Interesting all the same. Thanks for replying.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Where did you read/see this?
 
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