Review Pies 104-73 Lions - Rd 21, 2018

[Gone Critical]

Guys I’m not really bothered by the counter opinions I just think you’re overplaying his influence.

Multiple goals on only 4 occasions this year, held goalless 7 times, averaging .7 clearances, multiple marks I50 on only 5 occasions and only 5 matches with 10+ hitouts (overall average 7). All of those numbers are below average and the only stat area he’s elite is contested marks because he can’t get separation. There’s also his complete lack of follow up impact once the balls beyond 5 metres. He does well for his size, but can’t hold a candle to most KPF’s.

He’s a bit part player at best and nowhere near as important as he’s made out to be. TBH it’s more a sign of our dearth of alternatives than anything else because those numbers are Leroyesque without any of the type of presence Leroy had which is what made him the player he was!

FYI his numbers are marginally ahead of McInerney, IMO. The key difference is Cox had the standout 5 goal game on QB and is doing more in the air with McInerney well ahead at ground level. Is anyone really that enamoured with what McInerney has done this year?..

Yup, well said. if you are happy with a handy role player, Coxy is doing a decent job, and the Leroy analogy is a good one. Like Leroy in 2010/11, Coxy would be a very handy foil to a genuine KP gun.

However, if you want a gun KPF, like Richmond, or West Coast, or Sydney, or Geelong, or GWS or Melbourne ie just about all the other top 8 teams, then its questionable that Coxy is the man

I am onboard with the idea that Cox's importance this year has been overhyped. I come from that position as a Cox supporter who had higher expectations of him this year. He has just been ok overall as significant as he has been to our structure. Simply a better version of him would be more dangerous and be kicking more goals. I dont think he has evolved as much as I was hoping this year. Last year in the VFL his contested marking spiked to pretty unbelievable numbers so it was always a reasonable bet this would translate into the AFL and it has but its really the only facet of his game that has grown.

Can he go above his current level? I still believe there is a good case to mount that he will and he needs to. I see the Leroy analogy but he is much more David Hale to me. His stats this year are very similar to Hales in the Hawks flag years with better marking and less ruck work the two main differences. If he was surrounded by better players he can survive in a good team like Hale did but if he wants to be a more main man he has to step up.

I think a fair amount of the perception of his improvement in 2108 stems from the forward line functioning better, that has been our main weakness of past seasons. I would still see the improvement more relating to what De Goey, WHE, Thomas, Mihocek and Stevo have bought to the table compared to recent forward lines led by Elliott and Fas. Cox helps the structure but isnt the cause of the improvement.

 

[Maggie5]

Maynes heat map is largely on the wing. Would that be defending the down the line kick? Or is he sat there and then moves into that corridor area?

Mayne has definitely not been in for forward pressure. That would be hard from the wing. But I do think he is there to help our defensive set up through the middle. That and his composure in pressure is why I believe he's been keeping his spot in the 22. Wills lack of spread, Smiths aversion to manning up and Blairs inability to stick tackles put them at disadvantages for the same role.

He tends to position himself there or move just off centre but he still sits too far off an opponent. What I haven't done is compare what his opponent stats are, would be interesting if I could be bothered.

Agree that so called forward pressure he supposedly brings is not what he is in for.

I think he plays strictly to his role and at this stage the two you mentioned I think are equal to what he brings but none are the future. I would persevere with Daicos until we have more to select from.

 

[Maggie5]

Guys I’m not really bothered by the counter opinions I just think you’re overplaying his influence.

Multiple goals on only 4 occasions this year, held goalless 7 times, averaging .7 clearances, multiple marks I50 on only 5 occasions and only 5 matches with 10+ hitouts (overall average 7). All of those numbers are below average and the only stat area he’s elite is contested marks because he can’t get separation. There’s also his complete lack of follow up impact once the balls beyond 5 metres. He does well for his size, but can’t hold a candle to most KPF’s.

He’s a bit part player at best and nowhere near as important as he’s made out to be. TBH it’s more a sign of our dearth of alternatives than anything else because those numbers are Leroyesque without any of the type of presence Leroy had which is what made him the player he was!

FYI his numbers are marginally ahead of McInerney, IMO. The key difference is Cox had the standout 5 goal game on QB and is doing more in the air with McInerney well ahead at ground level. Is anyone really that enamoured with what McInerney has done this year?..

I am not sure where I sit with him although before the game when practicing for goal, seems to have modified his kicking action. Called the trainers over for a rub down on his legs for sometime. I think he (and some others) may be carrying an injury.

Who would you have relieving Grundy in the ruck, with Moore out and IMO McClarty not ready?

 

[jackcass]

I think it all depends what you are happy with...If you are happy with making the 8, but having an ordinary record against the other top 8 teams, then yup, lets celebrate "success". If OTOH, you reckon with one or two judicious improvements we can actually win the bloody thing, then why not improve? I dont dispute that Coxy is playing a handy role, but, Id rather have a genuine gun KPF, like ALL the other top 8 sides

You could equally argue that Melbourne have 2 (Hogan & McDonald), Crows have 2 (Tex & Jenkins), Bears have 1, Cats and North each have 1 of the best, so clearly having that dominant KPF isn't the be-all-end-all. It's about what the collective brings and we can be pretty damaging when it clicks.

We've experimented quite a bit and seem to have found a balance that works with our squad that requires Cox +1 KPF. Moore and Reid's injury issues mean that it's Mihocek getting a chance at the moment. Having a genuine 3rd tall option seems the kicker. I'm happy to enjoy this year for what it offers and see what it brings.

People keep talking about our ability to beat the top 8 sides but how many of those loses against these top 8 sides occurred when either Cox or JDG weren't playing? How many did we lose players during the game? Hopefully we retain a healthy (remaining) squad going forward. That'll be the key to determining just how far we can get.

If we do happen to add a genuine alternative to this mix at seasons end then I doubt that would then mean Cox is omitted.

 

[sideswipe]

I am onboard with the idea that Cox's importance this year has been overhyped. I come from that position as a Cox supporter who had higher expectations of him this year. He has just been ok overall as significant as he has been to our structure. Simply a better version of him would be more dangerous and be kicking more goals. I dont think he has evolved as much as I was hoping this year. Last year in the VFL his contested marking spiked to pretty unbelievable numbers so it was always a reasonable bet this would translate into the AFL and it has but its really the only facet of his game that has grown.

Can he go above his current level? I still believe there is a good case to mount that he will and he needs to. I see the Leroy analogy but he is much more David Hale to me. His stats this year are very similar to Hales in the Hawks flag years with better marking and less ruck work the two main differences. If he was surrounded by better players he can survive in a good team like Hale did but if he wants to be a more main man he has to step up.

I think a fair amount of the perception of his improvement in 2108 stems from the forward line functioning better, that has been our main weakness of past seasons. I would still see the improvement more relating to what De Goey, WHE, Thomas, Mihocek and Stevo have bought to the table compared to recent forward lines led by Elliott and Fas. Cox helps the structure but isnt the cause of the improvement.

Will probably never be revealed (which means I can't be wrong), but I reckon his mobility has been affected by that leg injury since earlier in the year. Could have been anything this year with decent medical staff.

Coxy's importance to our structure cannot be overstated. Actually that is wrong. Pretty much everything can be overstated. But he is important anyway.

 

[TradeDraft]

Loved Seeing him In and Under and Handballing though lot of Air Time with his Kicks

 

[CFC2010]

Loved Seeing him In and Under and Handballing though lot of Air Time with his Kicks

Not sure if you remember Dave but he got a really heavy knock right at the start of the game.

He was down for at least 30 seconds...…..great effort to be BOG after that.

His kicking is ok when he doesn't try to do too much.

 

[TradeDraft]

Not sure if you remember Dave but he got a really heavy knock right at the start of the game.

He was down for at least 30 seconds...…..great effort to be BOG after that.

His kicking is ok when he doesn't try to do too much.

I did not see that Bump so I missed it.

Agree when Adams kicks Straight Away or Kick it long it's Okay but when he tries to Pin Point a Kick that is when he can get into Trouble

 

[Mark W]

I am onboard with the idea that Cox's importance this year has been overhyped. I come from that position as a Cox supporter who had higher expectations of him this year. He has just been ok overall as significant as he has been to our structure. Simply a better version of him would be more dangerous and be kicking more goals. I dont think he has evolved as much as I was hoping this year. Last year in the VFL his contested marking spiked to pretty unbelievable numbers so it was always a reasonable bet this would translate into the AFL and it has but its really the only facet of his game that has grown.

Can he go above his current level? I still believe there is a good case to mount that he will and he needs to. I see the Leroy analogy but he is much more David Hale to me. His stats this year are very similar to Hales in the Hawks flag years with better marking and less ruck work the two main differences. If he was surrounded by better players he can survive in a good team like Hale did but if he wants to be a more main man he has to step up.

I think a fair amount of the perception of his improvement in 2108 stems from the forward line functioning better, that has been our main weakness of past seasons. I would still see the improvement more relating to what De Goey, WHE, Thomas, Mihocek and Stevo have bought to the table compared to recent forward lines led by Elliott and Fas. Cox helps the structure but isnt the cause of the improvement.

Yup the Hale analogy is even better.

Its really hard with mature age recruits like Coxy and Mihocek to estimate how much improvement is left in them....They won't have the massive differences in body shape that most 18 year old kids will undergo....I will be fascinated to see if they improve next year. IMO, they need to if we are to challenge

 

[jathanas]

Guys I’m not really bothered by the counter opinions I just think you’re overplaying his influence.

Multiple goals on only 4 occasions this year, held goalless 7 times, averaging .7 clearances, multiple marks I50 on only 5 occasions and only 5 matches with 10+ hitouts (overall average 7). All of those numbers are below average and the only stat area he’s elite is contested marks because he can’t get separation. There’s also his complete lack of follow up impact once the balls beyond 5 metres. He does well for his size, but can’t hold a candle to most KPF’s.

He’s a bit part player at best and nowhere near as important as he’s made out to be. TBH it’s more a sign of our dearth of alternatives than anything else because those numbers are Leroyesque without any of the type of presence Leroy had which is what made him the player he was!

FYI his numbers are marginally ahead of McInerney, IMO. The key difference is Cox had the standout 5 goal game on QB and is doing more in the air with McInerney well ahead at ground level. Is anyone really that enamoured with what McInerney has done this year?..

On the bolded bit I'd say he has a different presence to Leroy, but not lesser. I'm aware that this is an intangible quality.

Your effort to post with data that supports your view is what makes you one of the better posters on this board Sco.

 

[jonbe54]

I think it all depends what you are happy with...If you are happy with making the 8, but having an ordinary record against the other top 8 teams, then yup, lets celebrate "success". If OTOH, you reckon with one or two judicious improvements we can actually win the bloody thing, then why not improve? I dont dispute that Coxy is playing a handy role, but, Id rather have a genuine gun KPF, like ALL the other top 8 sides

For about the millionth time . . . .

Having early game injuries to key players has cruelled our chances against more than one top team.

What part of severely reduced rotations and lack of structure caused by key players going down in the first or second quarters can't you grasp???

FMD!

 

[jackcass]

I am onboard with the idea that Cox's importance this year has been overhyped. I come from that position as a Cox supporter who had higher expectations of him this year. He has just been ok overall as significant as he has been to our structure. Simply a better version of him would be more dangerous and be kicking more goals. I dont think he has evolved as much as I was hoping this year. Last year in the VFL his contested marking spiked to pretty unbelievable numbers so it was always a reasonable bet this would translate into the AFL and it has but its really the only facet of his game that has grown.

Can he go above his current level? I still believe there is a good case to mount that he will and he needs to. I see the Leroy analogy but he is much more David Hale to me. His stats this year are very similar to Hales in the Hawks flag years with better marking and less ruck work the two main differences. If he was surrounded by better players he can survive in a good team like Hale did but if he wants to be a more main man he has to step up.

I think a fair amount of the perception of his improvement in 2108 stems from the forward line functioning better, that has been our main weakness of past seasons. I would still see the improvement more relating to what De Goey, WHE, Thomas, Mihocek and Stevo have bought to the table compared to recent forward lines led by Elliott and Fas. Cox helps the structure but isnt the cause of the improvement.

Agree. Anticipated much greater scoreboard impact and an increase in possession rates with improving consistency but just hasn't realised that thus far this year. That's not to dismiss the contribution he does make or his importance to our structure. I wonder how much the leg injury continues to impede him, his set shot goal kicking technique in particular looks different.

 

[swoop42]

I hope before we next play Hawthorn Bucks sits down and watches the first half of this Brisbane game again.

For mine the first quarter was very reminiscent of how Hawthorn has consistently broken our game plan apart since 2012.

Brisbane like Hawthorn many times before were able to use a patient and effective kicking game to keep possession and hit up targets as we looked to zone off in guarding space.

This ability to find loose men and the subsequent pressure that came on our defenders from the repeated inside 50 entries saw us desperately trying to clear the ball only to hand it straight back.

It gave me flashbacks of our worst performances against Hawthorn but thankfully at quarter time we readjusted and were able to successfully implement a more contested man on man style and denied Brisbane the time and space they desired.

Basically we backed in our individual talent to beat theirs and lifted our intensity level (It was bruise free football until then).

This is exactly what must happen against Hawthorn or any side that looks to mimic that style against us (West Coast?) as sitting back and zoning off just hands them the game on their terms.

 

[CFC2010]

I hope before we next play Hawthorn Bucks sits down and watches the first half of this Brisbane game again.

For mine the first quarter was very reminiscent of how Hawthorn has consistently broken our game plan apart since 2012.

Brisbane like Hawthorn many times before were able to use a patient and effective kicking game to keep possession and hit up targets as we looked to zone off in guarding space.

This ability to find loose men and the subsequent pressure that came on our defenders from the repeated inside 50 entries saw us desperately trying to clear the ball only to hand it straight back.

It gave me flashbacks of our worst performances against Hawthorn but thankfully at quarter time we readjusted and were able to successfully implement a more contested man on man style and denied Brisbane the time and space they desired.

Basically we backed in our individual talent to beat theirs and lifted our intensity level (It was bruise free football until then).

This is exactly what must happen against Hawthorn or any side that looks to mimic that style against us (West Coast?) as sitting back and zoning off just hands them the game on their terms.

Great observation mate.......I said exactly the same thing in the first quarter at the game.

I thought we worked our way back into it in the second and then we got on top in the second half.

Like I said in the match day thread.....I thought it was a mature performance by our team.

 

[Apex36]

I hope before we next play Hawthorn Bucks sits down and watches the first half of this Brisbane game again.

For mine the first quarter was very reminiscent of how Hawthorn has consistently broken our game plan apart since 2012.

Brisbane like Hawthorn many times before were able to use a patient and effective kicking game to keep possession and hit up targets as we looked to zone off in guarding space.

This ability to find loose men and the subsequent pressure that came on our defenders from the repeated inside 50 entries saw us desperately trying to clear the ball only to hand it straight back.

It gave me flashbacks of our worst performances against Hawthorn but thankfully at quarter time we readjusted and were able to successfully implement a more contested man on man style and denied Brisbane the time and space they desired.

Basically we backed in our individual talent to beat theirs and lifted our intensity level (It was bruise free football until then).

This is exactly what must happen against Hawthorn or any side that looks to mimic that style against us (West Coast?) as sitting back and zoning off just hands them the game on their terms.

I was saying the same thing during the game. It was like Fagan knew how Hawthorn had been beating us and had drilled his players specifically for that game (it was much different to how they’d been playing other teams recently).
In past years we’d have lost this game due to a stubborn rigid backing in of our system. The fact that we came out after quarter time and defended in a different way to shut down the way Brisbane were moving the ball was a great sign of Bucks’ growth as a coach. A willingness to adjust on the fly if plan A doesn’t work is what good coaches do.

 

[TradeDraft]

I was saying the same thing during the game. It was like Fagan knew how Hawthorn had been beating us and had drilled his players specifically for that game (it was much different to how they’d been playing other teams recently).
In past years we’d have lost this game due to a stubborn rigid backing in of our system. The fact that we came out after quarter time and defended in a different way to shut down the way Brisbane were moving the ball was a great sign of Bucks’ growth as a coach. A willingness to adjust on the fly if plan A doesn’t work is what good coaches do.

Very True. Was good to see Bucks was Willing to Change the GamePlan when it was not Working

 

[nahnah]

After sitting through that game vs west coast I will never question Cox’s importance again

 

[cleomenes]

I hope before we next play Hawthorn Bucks sits down and watches the first half of this Brisbane game again.

For mine the first quarter was very reminiscent of how Hawthorn has consistently broken our game plan apart since 2012.

Brisbane like Hawthorn many times before were able to use a patient and effective kicking game to keep possession and hit up targets as we looked to zone off in guarding space.

This ability to find loose men and the subsequent pressure that came on our defenders from the repeated inside 50 entries saw us desperately trying to clear the ball only to hand it straight back.

It gave me flashbacks of our worst performances against Hawthorn but thankfully at quarter time we readjusted and were able to successfully implement a more contested man on man style and denied Brisbane the time and space they desired.

Basically we backed in our individual talent to beat theirs and lifted our intensity level (It was bruise free football until then).

This is exactly what must happen against Hawthorn or any side that looks to mimic that style against us (West Coast?) as sitting back and zoning off just hands them the game on their terms.

The message is that the coaching staff had already done this and the plan was in place to deal with the possession game. Because I only saw it on TV, I can't identify exactly what the changes were, but they were very clearly ready for it. It is a question of whether the changes will be enough against more accurate and steady sides like Hawthorn and West Coast. They will also have observed what we did and have made their preparations accordingly.
The fact that our forward line is now mostly composed of very fast players probably gives the coaches more opportunity to shut down this kind of game, but I really didn't see how it was done.

 

[jackcass]

I hope before we next play Hawthorn Bucks sits down and watches the first half of this Brisbane game again.

For mine the first quarter was very reminiscent of how Hawthorn has consistently broken our game plan apart since 2012.

Brisbane like Hawthorn many times before were able to use a patient and effective kicking game to keep possession and hit up targets as we looked to zone off in guarding space.

This ability to find loose men and the subsequent pressure that came on our defenders from the repeated inside 50 entries saw us desperately trying to clear the ball only to hand it straight back.

It gave me flashbacks of our worst performances against Hawthorn but thankfully at quarter time we readjusted and were able to successfully implement a more contested man on man style and denied Brisbane the time and space they desired.

Basically we backed in our individual talent to beat theirs and lifted our intensity level (It was bruise free football until then).

This is exactly what must happen against Hawthorn or any side that looks to mimic that style against us (West Coast?) as sitting back and zoning off just hands them the game on their terms.

I doubt he's ignorant of it.

 

[Mark W]

For about the millionth time . . . .

Having early game injuries to key players has cruelled our chances against more than one top team.

What part of severely reduced rotations and lack of structure caused by key players going down in the first or second quarters can't you grasp???

FMD!

Congratulations! You achieved the triple crown! You have managed to simultaneously be rude, superficial and completely miss the point. Nonetheless your tangential rant was as entertaining as it was facile. I grasp your opinion just fine thank you very much, but I just happen (shock horror) to not fully agree and find it simplistic.

No doubt, injuries have not helped, and yup we might have won some of those close ones without em, particularly the GWS and Sydney games. However, its facile to suggest this is the whole story. I reckon Hawthorn, Geelong, West Coast and Richmond beat us quite comfortably. Id rather not make excuses and cop it on the chin. I very much hope the club is thinking a little more deeply and critically then this, cause if they agree with you then they will sit on their hands, smug in the belief that we have a great list that got crucified by injury. We cant afford that complacency. We have not got a perfect list. Relative to the other good teams our key position stocks are weak and need improvement.

We only have 7 genuine KP players on our list (not counting big flankers like Goldy and Shaz). Not even enough to fill the goal to goal lines of two teams without resorting to the aforesaid flankers . Of those, two are on their last legs, one would be playing ruck for most other sides, one is just a kid, and 3 of em are undersized.

What's our best goal to goal line? Dunn, Moore Mihocek and Cox? Any A graders there? Any All Australian quality amongst that lot? Its in stark contrast to the guns we have in every other department. We have wonderful rucks, midfielders and small-medium defenders and forwards. Maybe one day Moore, will be A grade and an AA, but but that's it. He is currently very green as a KPD (as we saw, Reiwoldt turned him inside out a few times). FWIW, I prefer him on the forward line, but that probably means we have someone else undersized at CHB- Shaz, Goldy, Howe. Personally I want a genuine KPD, not a big flanker. Dunn has been admirable done a very good job for us, but he is ageing, and ya wouldn't say he was in that top echelon of KPD. Cox has managed only 18 goals for the year so far. That is Jesse White/Leroy Brown territory. Indeed I suspect both Mihocek and Cox are both handy no 2 type KPF, rather then 40 goal plus a year no 1 KPFs, but maybe Mihocek will prove me wrong with time.

So that in a nutshell is my argument. Im not interested in using injuries as an excuse. We are deficient in our KP stocks. if we had a 40-50 goal a year KPF rather then Coxy, then maybe we would be 3 or 4 goals up against Sydney, GWS and Richmond (the 2nd time around, rather then even). Get 1 or 2 good genuine KP players, and our chances of beating the big dogs and covering injuries will be dramatically improved

 

[jonbe54]

Congratulations! You achieved the triple crown! You have managed to simultaneously be rude, superficial and completely miss the point. Nonetheless your tangential rant was as entertaining as it was facile. I grasp your opinion just fine thank you very much, but I just happen (shock horror) to not fully agree and find it simplistic.

No doubt, injuries have not helped, and yup we might have won some of those close ones without em, particularly the GWS and Sydney games. However, its facile to suggest this is the whole story. I reckon Hawthorn, Geelong, West Coast and Richmond beat us quite comfortably. Id rather not make excuses and cop it on the chin. I very much hope the club is thinking a little more deeply and critically then this, cause if they agree with you then they will sit on their hands, smug in the belief that we have a great list that got crucified by injury. We cant afford that complacency. We have not got a perfect list. Relative to the other good teams our key position stocks are weak and need improvement.

We only have 7 genuine KP players on our list (not counting big flankers like Goldy and Shaz). Not even enough to fill the goal to goal lines of two teams without resorting to the aforesaid flankers . Of those, two are on their last legs, one would be playing ruck for most other sides, one is just a kid, and 3 of em are undersized.

What's our best goal to goal line? Dunn, Moore Mihocek and Cox? Any A graders there? Any All Australian quality amongst that lot? Its in stark contrast to the guns we have in every other department. We have wonderful rucks, midfielders and small-medium defenders and forwards. Maybe one day Moore, will be A grade and an AA, but but that's it. He is currently very green as a KPD (as we saw, Reiwoldt turned him inside out a few times). FWIW, I prefer him on the forward line, but that probably means we have someone else undersized at CHB- Shaz, Goldy, Howe. Personally I want a genuine KPD, not a big flanker. Dunn has been admirable done a very good job for us, but he is ageing, and ya wouldn't say he was in that top echelon of KPD. Cox has managed only 18 goals for the year so far. That is Jesse White/Leroy Brown territory. Indeed I suspect both Mihocek and Cox are both handy no 2 type KPF, rather then 40 goal plus a year no 1 KPFs, but maybe Mihocek will prove me wrong with time.

So that in a nutshell is my argument. Im not interested in using injuries as an excuse. We are deficient in our KP stocks. if we had a 40-50 goal a year KPF rather then Coxy, then maybe we would be 3 or 4 goals up against Sydney, GWS and Richmond (the 2nd time around, rather then even). Get 1 or 2 good genuine KP players, and our chances of beating the big dogs and covering injuries will be dramatically improved

Congratulations blocked.

 

[Quicky]

Congratulations! You achieved the triple crown! You have managed to simultaneously be rude, superficial and completely miss the point. Nonetheless your tangential rant was as entertaining as it was facile. I grasp your opinion just fine thank you very much, but I just happen (shock horror) to not fully agree and find it simplistic.

No doubt, injuries have not helped, and yup we might have won some of those close ones without em, particularly the GWS and Sydney games. However, its facile to suggest this is the whole story. I reckon Hawthorn, Geelong, West Coast and Richmond beat us quite comfortably. Id rather not make excuses and cop it on the chin. I very much hope the club is thinking a little more deeply and critically then this, cause if they agree with you then they will sit on their hands, smug in the belief that we have a great list that got crucified by injury. We cant afford that complacency. We have not got a perfect list. Relative to the other good teams our key position stocks are weak and need improvement.

We only have 7 genuine KP players on our list (not counting big flankers like Goldy and Shaz). Not even enough to fill the goal to goal lines of two teams without resorting to the aforesaid flankers . Of those, two are on their last legs, one would be playing ruck for most other sides, one is just a kid, and 3 of em are undersized.

What's our best goal to goal line? Dunn, Moore Mihocek and Cox? Any A graders there? Any All Australian quality amongst that lot? Its in stark contrast to the guns we have in every other department. We have wonderful rucks, midfielders and small-medium defenders and forwards. Maybe one day Moore, will be A grade and an AA, but but that's it. He is currently very green as a KPD (as we saw, Reiwoldt turned him inside out a few times). FWIW, I prefer him on the forward line, but that probably means we have someone else undersized at CHB- Shaz, Goldy, Howe. Personally I want a genuine KPD, not a big flanker. Dunn has been admirable done a very good job for us, but he is ageing, and ya wouldn't say he was in that top echelon of KPD. Cox has managed only 18 goals for the year so far. That is Jesse White/Leroy Brown territory. Indeed I suspect both Mihocek and Cox are both handy no 2 type KPF, rather then 40 goal plus a year no 1 KPFs, but maybe Mihocek will prove me wrong with time.

So that in a nutshell is my argument. Im not interested in using injuries as an excuse. We are deficient in our KP stocks. if we had a 40-50 goal a year KPF rather then Coxy, then maybe we would be 3 or 4 goals up against Sydney, GWS and Richmond (the 2nd time around, rather then even). Get 1 or 2 good genuine KP players, and our chances of beating the big dogs and covering injuries will be dramatically improved

Dunn statistically outstrips many of his KPD contempories. He is the best one-vs-one defender in the league and has a low average of goals kicked on him. He is also an elite field kick. I don't think Dunn gets the recognition he deserves.

 

[jackcass]

Congratulations! You achieved the triple crown! You have managed to simultaneously be rude, superficial and completely miss the point. Nonetheless your tangential rant was as entertaining as it was facile. I grasp your opinion just fine thank you very much, but I just happen (shock horror) to not fully agree and find it simplistic.

No doubt, injuries have not helped, and yup we might have won some of those close ones without em, particularly the GWS and Sydney games. However, its facile to suggest this is the whole story. I reckon Hawthorn, Geelong, West Coast and Richmond beat us quite comfortably. Id rather not make excuses and cop it on the chin. I very much hope the club is thinking a little more deeply and critically then this, cause if they agree with you then they will sit on their hands, smug in the belief that we have a great list that got crucified by injury. We cant afford that complacency. We have not got a perfect list. Relative to the other good teams our key position stocks are weak and need improvement.

We only have 7 genuine KP players on our list (not counting big flankers like Goldy and Shaz). Not even enough to fill the goal to goal lines of two teams without resorting to the aforesaid flankers . Of those, two are on their last legs, one would be playing ruck for most other sides, one is just a kid, and 3 of em are undersized.

What's our best goal to goal line? Dunn, Moore Mihocek and Cox? Any A graders there? Any All Australian quality amongst that lot? Its in stark contrast to the guns we have in every other department. We have wonderful rucks, midfielders and small-medium defenders and forwards. Maybe one day Moore, will be A grade and an AA, but but that's it. He is currently very green as a KPD (as we saw, Reiwoldt turned him inside out a few times). FWIW, I prefer him on the forward line, but that probably means we have someone else undersized at CHB- Shaz, Goldy, Howe. Personally I want a genuine KPD, not a big flanker. Dunn has been admirable done a very good job for us, but he is ageing, and ya wouldn't say he was in that top echelon of KPD. Cox has managed only 18 goals for the year so far. That is Jesse White/Leroy Brown territory. Indeed I suspect both Mihocek and Cox are both handy no 2 type KPF, rather then 40 goal plus a year no 1 KPFs, but maybe Mihocek will prove me wrong with time.

So that in a nutshell is my argument. Im not interested in using injuries as an excuse. We are deficient in our KP stocks. if we had a 40-50 goal a year KPF rather then Coxy, then maybe we would be 3 or 4 goals up against Sydney, GWS and Richmond (the 2nd time around, rather then even). Get 1 or 2 good genuine KP players, and our chances of beating the big dogs and covering injuries will be dramatically improved

Gee, more long bows there than an archery convention.