Pies 2012 Salary Cap

[Scottabe_pendles]

Just a question with our offseason going as it has with Toovey wanting out because he isnt getting enough money, Now Leon Leaving (rumour), and Caff not being resigned because of salary cap troubles. Might sound like a strange question but 'where has it all gone' -

Obviously signing Thomas, Pendles and Swan this year took up a lot of the spare cap but with players such as Reid, Cloke, Brown off contract again this year (remembering reid and brown would be on baset or not much above and Cloke took well under what he will be worth next time round) Luke ball who is a key player playing for minimum and Taz for not much above.

It seems to me as for 2012 at least we should have been fine for salary cap then a big squeeze for season 2013. But with the leon situation it sounds as though there is nothing left for THIS season which seems rediculous.

The only reason I can think is Swan signed very much front ended contracts to the ilk of 40, 25, 20, 15 (to help with 2013> struggles)
This with Jolly is getting 450ish irrc and same with Dids - who are both probably overpaid based on 2011 performance (but is worth it simply because of 2010)

So if someone knows at least the basis behind the current salary struggles I'd love a bit of our insight because im mistified as to how we cant even pay Leon well for ONE year (when he was probably getting a decent amount last year - obviously new contracts starting for Dale, Swan and Pendles is main reason)

Were Didaks and Jolly's contracts heavily back ended or did we overpay the likes of the captain or Harry (no-one ever talks about their contract sizes)

- Cant say bad management because never would have won in 2010 without the choices but it doesnt seem like we're handling cap issues like Hawks or Geelong, seems as thought we're really struggling with any foresight

 

[Ed D]

We re-signed quite a few players last season and like you say have a few high profile players are on the ends of their contracts, plus weighting of contracts we have no idea about but could have something to do with it.

In reality we have no idea what's going on and never will unless someone from the club actually states it, but it's to be expected when you have so many young players at the club improving and you win a premiership. Suddenly everyone is underpaid for their next contract according to their managers.

I think the club has been handling it well enough, but there will be a lot of juggling for Walsh over the next couple of years.

 

[Bay Pie]

I'd say we have brought forward contract monies for Daisy, Swanny, Dids and Jolly to the 2012 year.

This would lesson the pressure when these guys come out of contract at the end of 2012. They will all be due pay rises and rightly so.

Pendles
Cloke
Reid
Sidebottom
Beams
Ball
O'Brien
Wellingham
Shaw
Krakouer
Fasolo

That is alot of good young talent. Walshy has his work cut out.

 

[blaze036]

GWS are over all Pendlebury Reid Cloke which pushes their prices up, and as they are required players (actually required players, not like toovey/macaffer which some people like to call required) this places huge strain on the salary cap with Daisy swan didak already getting payed quiet a bit. We've just got an extreamly good list, plus some competition from rival clubs for our best players.

Without GWS/GC though we wouldnt have these problems

 

[vjknight]

Just a question with our offseason going as it has with Toovey wanting out because he isnt getting enough money, Now Leon Leaving (rumour), and Caff not being resigned because of salary cap troubles. Might sound like a strange question but 'where has it all gone' -

Obviously signing Thomas, Pendles and Swan this year took up a lot of the spare cap but with players such as Reid, Cloke, Brown off contract again this year (remembering reid and brown would be on baset or not much above and Cloke took well under what he will be worth next time round) Luke ball who is a key player playing for minimum and Taz for not much above.

It seems to me as for 2012 at least we should have been fine for salary cap then a big squeeze for season 2013. But with the leon situation it sounds as though there is nothing left for THIS season which seems rediculous.

The only reason I can think is Swan signed very much front ended contracts to the ilk of 40, 25, 20, 15 (to help with 2013> struggles)
This with Jolly is getting 450ish irrc and same with Dids - who are both probably overpaid based on 2011 performance (but is worth it simply because of 2010)

So if someone knows at least the basis behind the current salary struggles I'd love a bit of our insight because im mistified as to how we cant even pay Leon well for ONE year (when he was probably getting a decent amount last year - obviously new contracts starting for Dale, Swan and Pendles is main reason)

Were Didaks and Jolly's contracts heavily back ended or did we overpay the likes of the captain or Harry (no-one ever talks about their contract sizes)

- Cant say bad management because never would have won in 2010 without the choices but it doesnt seem like we're handling cap issues like Hawks or Geelong, seems as thought we're really struggling with any foresight

i think its a little harsh to be criticising the club for contract & cap management when theyve done a great job to secure the likes of ball & taz, as well as fight off challengers for some huge signatures. yes hindsight says the likes of didak & jolly are NOW overpaid, but those deals were signed before 2010, and looked good deals beforehand, so the comments were unwarranted.

leons departure is not a surprise, considering the various issues influencing the decision, but likely relieves sufficient pressure to retain everyone else required. yes he's come off AA form, and he did he job wonderfully last year, but his is not a role too difficult to replace. whether it be players like davis or macaffer, its certainly a lot less painful than losing the high profile types we all know are vital.

as mentioned the other day on SEN, clubs are finding it hard to retain that 2nd tier type of player, due to clubs pulling out (almost) all stops to retain the stars and sufficient 2nd tier to avoid playing too many kids. but cap pressure will force clubs to bias their list to the top & bottom ends, leaving the middle rung feeling undervalued. these are definitely the guys who need to ensure they have contingency plans ready for life after footy, cos that might eventuate sooner than they planned.

 

[FIGJAM]

As stated, 2012 is not the only year worth worrying about. We've got plenty coming out of contract who will still be at the mercy of GWS.

They have to sacrifice and so do we. Leon's year was great, but he's not exactly a great big game player, nor a part of the core with, our CHF to CHB line under threat.

Winning flags usually requires sustained success. As evidenced by last year, they don't give them away and even the greatest Geelong team of all time could only win 3/5. The Hawks of the 80's didn't even win one back to back.

Sustained success doesn't mean bending over for the likes of Tooves, Leon, Caff and McCarthy. Doesn't mean we don't respect their contribution, nor their ability to reasonably negotiate for their future, but these are the commercial realities employed in the introduction of two completely unnecessary franchises.

 

[Trojan Pies]

Contract negotiations at the end of next year will define the immediate future of the club.

If we lose one of Reid or Cloke - we drop out of premiership contention. They are irreplaceable with what we have coming through on our current list and with what they bring to our game (leading contested marks & leading marks from opposition kicks as a start).

As much as I love, rate and want Scott to be our next Captain, A-grade key position players are a lot harder to come by and develop than midfielders. And please DO NOT underestimate my opinion of Scott Pendlebury - my mates and I had nicknamed him "Brownlow" since his second year and I rate him as a top 10 player in the AFL.

 

[Beary17]

Contract negotiations at the end of next year will define the immediate future of the club.

If we lose one of Reid or Cloke - we drop out of premiership contention. They are irreplaceable with what we have coming through on our current list and with what they bring to our game (leading contested marks & leading marks from opposition kicks as a start).

As much as I love, rate and want Scott to be our next Captain, A-grade key position players are a lot harder to come by and develop than midfielders. And please DO NOT underestimate my opinion of Scott Pendlebury - my mates and I had nicknamed him "Brownlow" since his second year and I rate him as a top 10 player in the AFL.

Mate im of the same opinion when it comes to KPP, lets hope when the time comes we dont lose anyone, we need to put them into some financial education courses so like Dawes they can focus on footy now and making money later!

 

[TheFreshBanana]

I don't think next year will be as bad as this year.

Next year we'll probably see the retirements of

Tarrant
Jolly
Didak
Johnson

I don't know how much coin these guys are on but it'll definetly help free up some space.

Pendles
Cloke
Reid
Sidebottom
Beams
Ball
O'Brien
Wellingham
Shaw
Krakouer
Fasolo

Out of these guys I could see a payrise in;
Cloke
Reid
Sidebottom
Beams
Shaw
Krakeour
Fasolo

Which, looking at it for a bit, isn't too bad. Let's say each wants a payrise of average 150k, thats a total of 1.05 Mil

Since there would be at least a retirements of 2 players, plus the extended 600k salary cap space from the CBA (which imo we haven't completely used up), delisting 1-3 fringe players, I think we will find the space to fit everyone in.