Pies narrowing window, last chance saloon.

[Damon_3388]

Mason Cox for one, Phillips another - yes he's out of form but his ace is covering k's, he literally grinds his opponents with tank. Not really a reliable one on one player.

Rupert Wills, A for effort but is purely grunt and slower than reverse.

Does anyone rate those players that highly in the first place?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Does anyone rate those players that highly in the first place?

Apparently yes, even oppo fans.

 

[Tackle Bag]

Definite contenders this year and next.
Their system produces many ugly games but it works.
Midfield is strong but Pendles and Sidebottom are the keys. Treloar is better than average but gee he burns the footy way too much.

Backline among the best in the Comp.

Forward line is where they are probably slightly weak compared to their top 4 competitors.
Really need at least one quality tall down there to bring all the parts together.

Their list isn’t as deep as some but I wouldn’t claim to know much about their guys playing at vfl level.

Over all they are definitely capable of snagging one in the next 2 years if things fell their way.

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned their ability to shoot themselves in the foot as an issue?
Off field dramas need to stop and they need a good run with no distractions. Not too big a task but it does seem to have eluded the pies in recent years. All clubs have them but pies seem to have more than most I reckon.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Definite contenders this year and next.
Their system produces many ugly games but it works.
Midfield is strong but Pendles and Sidebottom are the keys. Treloar is better than average but gee he burns the footy way too much.

Backline among the best in the Comp.

Forward line is where they are probably slightly weak compared to their top 4 competitors.
Really need at least one quality tall down there to bring all the parts together.

Their list isn’t as deep as some but I wouldn’t claim to know much about their guys playing at vfl level.

Over all they are definitely capable of snagging one in the next 2 years if things fell their way.

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned their ability to shoot themselves in the foot as an issue?
Off field dramas need to stop and they need a good run with no distractions. Not too big a task but it does seem to have eluded the pies in recent years. All clubs have them but pies seem to have more than most I reckon.

1/ They are not contenders, they've pretending well but that's about it.

2/ Their ideal game is choke the opposition and have numbers on the outside for transition i50 (1 qtr), not grind opponents in continuous contests and stoppages (3 qtrs)

3/ I agree a real KPF won't hurt, Will Kelly will need time to develop but certainly in a year or two could be a good if not great KPF. So not this year even if he wasn't injured.

4/ It's Collingwood, things don't fall their way. Blunt reality - same again for every year to follow from now. They literally have to be the best team for the year to win it, not like some premiers where 'things fell their way'

5/ There are whole threads on the Collingwood board about things in their control (shooting ones foot) that they manage to f*** up every fargin year. Blunt reality - same again for every year to follow from now.

6/ As I've posted earlier, it's hard to argue that we have actually been in the 'window' post 2017. We've punched above our weight on system not talent. Now I'm not suggesting it's a poor list, it's a very good list, very good. But it's miles off a wc or giants, and not as good as the tiges.

 

[schmuttt]

They remind me of Ross Lyons Freo. Strong midfield, boring to watch, always in the game but due to their inability to score heavily the opposition is always in the game too.

 

[domus]

The age profile I mentioned in the op, but that's not the issue. Since that op I've come to realize the Pies can't sustain that unbeatable game for long enough, that's the issue.

You've got to remember this team relies on system, in every game win, lose or draw they win just about every metric in the game. Possessions, cont possies, i50's, hit outs, clearances etc. all those pertinent ones but they only lead to unconvincing wins or losses.

Against Syd they entered i50 50 times. 50 times! and they kicked 6.14 - that is sub state league standard. Imagine if wc or tiges did that - they'd kick 18 goals.

This team is not talent laden like wc, giants or tiges.

You mentioned they were 'unlucky' not win the gf and pf, I'd argue they were lucky to get there.

You mentioned they were 'unlucky' not win the gf and pf, I'd argue they were lucky to get there.

Yep- it was pure luck which saw us leading Richmond ten goals to one late in the second term of the preliminary final.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You mentioned they were 'unlucky' not win the gf and pf, I'd argue they were lucky to get there.

Yep- it was pure luck which saw us leading Richmond ten goals to one late in the second term of the preliminary final.

Well that game is the absolute potential of that list at that time, unlikely to ever repeat a performance like that. It was clear they'd have to back up the next week to win it. Obviously one qtr was not enough.

It was a one off game.

 

[domus]

Well that game is the absolute potential of that list at that time, unlikely to ever repeat a performance like that. It was clear they'd have to back up the next week to win it. Obviously one qtr was not enough.

It was a one off game.

Be fair. We knocked off GWS the week before. Last year we controlled Geelong all night in the second semi. We deserved to be where we were and fell short. The Eagles took the lead with less than two minutes remaining. Let's not pretend we were awful. You must be doing a lot right to be ahead of a talent laden Eagles side with 2 minutes to go before the siren.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Be fair. We knocked off GWS the week before. Last year we controlled Geelong all night in the second semi. We deserved to be where we were and fell short. The Eagles took the lead with less than two minutes remaining. Let's not pretend we were awful. You must be doing a lot right to be ahead of a talent laden Eagles side with 2 minutes to go before the siren.

But that's my point, unless we play to potential we ain't defeating the potential of a wc, giants or tiges. We weren't awful at all, true grit, exceptional performances. Just not good enough.

 

[skittlebrew]

Always confused why they didn't pursue a key forward harder, it's a glaring omission in their list. Surprised they persisted with Cox so long.

 

[Jen2310]

Always confused why they didn't pursue a key forward harder, it's a glaring omission in their list. Surprised they persisted with Cox so long.

Yeah. Its been a glaring hole since Cloke. There is hope that will change this year.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yeah. Its been a glaring hole since Cloke. There is hope that will change this year.

For next year? Will Kelly?

 

[Jen2310]

For next year? Will Kelly?

Will Kelly definitely will be our future, but he prob needs someone to grow with or learn from. A forward in the trade period would be nice. Then hopefully we draft another, that he can grow with into the future.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Will Kelly definitely will be our future, but he prob needs someone to grow with or learn from. A forward in the trade period would be nice. Then hopefully we draft another, that he can grow with into the future.

That would all depend on cap space if your thinking is to trade in a big fish KPF, which is what we seemingly need, I don't think we have the room.

 

[Jen2310]

That would all depend on cap space if your thinking is to trade in a big fish KPF, which is what we seemingly need, I don't think we have the room.

Yeah, space would be the issue. I guess it depends on the player/value/$$. We can hope.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yeah, space would be the issue. I guess it depends on the player/value/$$. We can hope.

Or if we put up player(s) as a trade, like a profile mid to North for Brown (just an example - not sure on Brown). Not sure who I'd want to trade out either.

More worried about our game style and it's sustainability in game than a big fish KPF TBH.

 

[Jen2310]

Or if we put up player(s) as a trade, like a profile mid to North for Brown (just an example - not sure on Brown). Not sure who I'd want to trade out either.

More worried about our game style and it's sustainability in game than a big fish KPF TBH.

Same. The game style is concerning. Overpossessing the ball too much, the handball game. Chip chip around. It is annoying. Parts of last year and 2018 had a great exciting style. I dont know why it changed.
Nothing wrong with having a good defence unit, but we can't just make games about survival.Its about scoring. They need to sort it out quick smart.

 

[queensberryrules]

Ed comes out this week and says pies are over possessing it and need to be fast and direct into the forward line. Pretty obviously true, but the fact that Ed said it makes me think it can't be right.

Fancy having your poncy president come out telling the coach how to coach publicly. What a nonce. Remember when he sat in the box behind Malthouse all those years ago? A real sockcucker is Ed.

 

[queensberryrules]

1/ They are not contenders, they've pretending well but that's about it.

2/ Their ideal game is choke the opposition and have numbers on the outside for transition i50 (1 qtr), not grind opponents in continuous contests and stoppages (3 qtrs)

3/ I agree a real KPF won't hurt, Will Kelly will need time to develop but certainly in a year or two could be a good if not great KPF. So not this year even if he wasn't injured.

4/ It's Collingwood, things don't fall their way. Blunt reality - same again for every year to follow from now. They literally have to be the best team for the year to win it, not like some premiers where 'things fell their way'

5/ There are whole threads on the Collingwood board about things in their control (shooting ones foot) that they manage to f*** up every fargin year. Blunt reality - same again for every year to follow from now.

6/ As I've posted earlier, it's hard to argue that we have actually been in the 'window' post 2017. We've punched above our weight on system not talent. Now I'm not suggesting it's a poor list, it's a very good list, very good. But it's miles off a wc or giants, and not as good as the tiges.

Number 4. LOL.

Stand up, chest out stop feeling sorry for yourself with such a weak excuse.

 

[BBC1967]

Ed comes out this week and says pies are over possessing it and need to be fast and direct into the forward line. Pretty obviously true, but the fact that Ed said it makes me think it can't be right.

Fancy having your poncy president come out telling the coach how to coach publicly. What a nonce. Remember when he sat in the box behind Malthouse all those years ago? A real sockcucker is Ed.

Remember him teaching Travis Cloke to kick in the rooms, that worked didn’t it?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Same. The game style is concerning. Overpossessing the ball too much, the handball game. Chip chip around. It is annoying. Parts of last year and 2018 had a great exciting style. I dont know why it changed.
Nothing wrong with having a good defence unit, but we can't just make games about survival.Its about scoring. They need to sort it out quick smart.

You may have seen my debates on this on the Pies board, we do have that exciting style where no one can match it. No one. Then we hit the showers at qtr time.

I'd argue it's not by design, my theory is the game is flawed because the playing group can't maintain it. If they could they obviously would.

Certainly something is a miss and is a worry.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Number 4. LOL.

Stand up, chest out stop feeling sorry for yourself with such a weak excuse.

Correct, no one should rely on luck - especially Collingwood. But it seems luck is a required ingredient if you listen to some, coaches, players, BF footy posters.

 

[Jen2310]

You may have seen my debates on this on the Pies board, we do have that exciting style where no one can match it. No one. Then we hit the showers at qtr time.

I'd argue it's not by design, my theory is the game is flawed because the playing group can't maintain it. If they could they obviously would.

Certainly something is a miss and is a worry.

Yeah, its a bit concerning. We never really had this issue before this year. Not to this extent.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yeah, its a bit concerning. We never really had this issue before this year. Not to this extent.

Actually it's been since the gf, patches of absolute dominance and then disappearance.

 

[Jen2310]

Actually it's been since the gf, patches of absolute dominance and then disappearance.

Yeah, there was games like that last year. Not all, we dominated a lot of games. But there was ones like.. port I guess, blew them away in the first half. Anzac day was close scoring. Other games, you're not always gonna score as heavily as others. But I'm looking through the scores from last years game, and it wasn't that bad. Some quarters we may have just scored 1 goal, and more in the other quarters.
of course there was certain games that we were blown away. The North, and the GWS in sydney ones.

But its clearly nothing like it has been this year. I don't know whether its the shorter quarters, that they have struggled to adapt and score consistently.