Pies Sports Science - Cause of Injury Woes

[aflfan1990]

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ased-on-statistical-cult-20191108-p538t6.html

I'd like to reiterate, the president of the Australian Statistical Society

“If I was ever to peer review a paper using magnitude-based inference then I would reject it and tell the authors to completely redo their analysis,” says Professor Adrian Barnett, president of the Statistical Society of Australia.

“It’s strange that a method that has been clearly shown to be flawed has remained in use in sports science research.”

What method of statistics is being used by our PhD sports Scientist?


https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...gnitude+based+inference"+author:lazarus&btnG=

Yet another MBI user, this time with MBI ''founder'' Hopkins.

Are the pies players getting the best medical advice?

We seem to have it worse than other teams? Could this be why? I'd be interested to know if that's his job and hes built his name on the back of being an ''academic'' its only just that his chosen method is flawed.

Do the pies know that this is a reason we never get our best 22 on the park?

 

[Gone Critical]

This all goes along with what i have probably been banging on for about for years in these threads

The base problem from a stats point of view is that sports science has no chance of doing large numbered properly designed controlled trials to which proper statistical analysis can be applied. So they resort to statistical quirks that can power these very small trials but the result mean nothing

There is no good data overall in sports science as numbers are too small and data uncontrolled. Its not a Collingwood problem

Likewise the piles of stats used by AFL clubs have no statistical accuracy and all the conclusions made on them are flawed

Stats, sports and sports science are scientifically useless and that will never change because the numbers will alwys be too small.

 

[sideswipe]

This all goes along with what i have probably been banging on for about for years in these threads

The base problem from a stats point of view is that sports science has no chance of doing large numbered properly designed controlled trials to which proper statistical analysis can be applied. So they resort to statistical quirks that can power these very small trials but the result mean nothing

There is no good data overall in sports science as numbers are too small and data uncontrolled. Its not a Collingwood problem

Likewise the piles of stats used by AFL clubs have no statistical accuracy and all the conclusions made on them are flawed

Stats, sports and sports science are scientifically useless and that will never change because the numbers will alwys be too small.

60% of the time you are right every time.

 

[Gone Critical]

60% of the time you are right every time.

Due to your flawed stats I'm going to round that out to 100%

 

[manicmagpie]

This all goes along with what i have probably been banging on for about for years in these threads

The base problem from a stats point of view is that sports science has no chance of doing large numbered properly designed controlled trials to which proper statistical analysis can be applied. So they resort to statistical quirks that can power these very small trials but the result mean nothing

There is no good data overall in sports science as numbers are too small and data uncontrolled. Its not a Collingwood problem

Likewise the piles of stats used by AFL clubs have no statistical accuracy and all the conclusions made on them are flawed

Stats, sports and sports science are scientifically useless and that will never change because the numbers will alwys be too small.

Plus every now and then we'll hear about an approach or method that supposedly worked in baseball, which has about 2,500 games every year to draw on compared to our 200, not to mention the plethora of other professional leagues. Also a game which consists largely of specific controlled situations not remotely similar to the chaotic way our game is played.

 

[Robroy22]

Due to your flawed stats I'm going to round that out to 100%

Funny thing is....you'd BOTH be right!

 

[TKiL]

Due to your flawed stats I'm going to round that out to 100%

Apparently the inter quartile range of the standard deviation of the repeat occurrences of Cwood soft tissue injuries exceeds the mean, median and mode of all sporting codes since records were first kept shortly after the arrival of the First Fleet

 

[Robroy22]

As long as everyone can agree that 100% of ponies are prone to performing unspeakable horrors I am fine with whatever stats anyone may choose to pull out of their ass quote.

Agreed

 

[76woodenspooners]

This all goes along with what i have probably been banging on for about for years in these threads

The base problem from a stats point of view is that sports science has no chance of doing large numbered properly designed controlled trials to which proper statistical analysis can be applied. So they resort to statistical quirks that can power these very small trials but the result mean nothing

There is no good data overall in sports science as numbers are too small and data uncontrolled. Its not a Collingwood problem

Likewise the piles of stats used by AFL clubs have no statistical accuracy and all the conclusions made on them are flawed

Stats, sports and sports science are scientifically useless and that will never change because the numbers will alwys be too small.

+ As every qualified biostatistician well knows that understanding statistical significance is an important part of the science.

The cynic in me is more likely to believe that sone middle manager removed the error bars from the graphs because it cluttered up their PowerPoint presentation too much.

 

[Gone Critical]

As long as everyone can agree that 100% of ponies are prone to performing unspeakable horrors I am fine with whatever stats anyone may choose to pull out of their ass quote.

With your prediliction for hanging with ponies your trial numbers are likely statistically significant

 

[Gone Critical]

A distant predilection, nice twist

 

[Apex36]

All I know is a good friend of mine has started treating one of our VFL listed players and was shocked with the lack of follow up/strengthening exercises after the initial injury had healed. I’m not sure whether our AFL sports science dept treats our VFL players or is seperate, but it’s a big worry if that’s how the club is treating all our players.

 

[jathanas]

All I know is a good friend of mine has started treating one of our VFL listed players and was shocked with the lack of follow up/strengthening exercises after the initial injury had healed. I’m not sure whether our AFL sports science dept treats our VFL players or is seperate, but it’s a big worry if that’s how the club is treating all our players.

This is not the first I hear of this. People I have worked with that have been employed by VFL clubs have remarked on how unsophisticated their preseason strength & conditioning can be.

I strongly suspect that the AFL list would be differently resourced and managed.

I agree with Gone Critical with regards to sports science and the lower standard of evidence, but unlike Good Horse I'm not ready to declare all ponies to be a menace. Unlike Carlton & Richmond supporters they're cute and friendly.

 

[jathanas]

My little buddy is hurt you said this, and his 2 thoroughbred buddies think you're a meanie.

This is how it begins, as always. The thin end of the wedge. The fifth column inside our defences.

History is replete with examples of people who are tragically misguided on the intentions of their enemies, and in so doing lead their people to destruction. The Trojans who let the ******* horse inside the walls. The Moghuls inviting the Raj to come for tea and random genocide. The Nez Perce providing succour to Lewis and Clarke instead of scalping the imperialist motherf***ers as they should have. Bet they regretted that when they were hounded into the reservations.

All of them made the fatal mistake in not seeing what was clear with the benefit of hindsight; that they had let their worst enemy inside the walls and were about to have their assess handed to them. Such foolhardy humanity can be explained, I guess, by overeager PC do gooders in history cautioning everyone to be nice and form a metaphoric drumming circle and jazz hand in an affirming manner or whatever they did. But in dealing with a menace as purely evil as the pony menace, surely considerations of humanity are void? Or are we all too PC, or Pony Correct, to call it as we see it?

Ponies are the pure distillation of evil. If you took Rupert Murdoch, Hitler, and Celine Dion and put them all in a pot and boiled them down to a small smear of residual oils, and then caused things to grow from that smear (an act which in itself should lead to being executed in a really unpleasant way), ponies are what would come out.

Of course they can appear cute and friendly. What menace of such transported evil would not if it could? We are to be profoundly grateful that none of Rupert Murdoch, Hitler, or Celine Dion could manage that trick. But ponies can, and therein lies the true magnitude of their threat. The greatest trick the ponies ever pulled was convincing the world they were cute and friendly.

But we all know what happens next; how your last view in this life will be the glint of light off flashing teeth and hooves, always the hooves, and then the blood and the pain and endless ******* singing of "My Heart Will Go On." But yours wont, because the ponies will have removed it, still beating, from your chest and danced, yes danced around your body using it as a football while laughing, as the ponies do, at how another naive human was conned. If you want that to happen to you jathanas, that is your lot. But do not wish that on the rest of us. For shame.

Let us not be fooled brethren. We face an existential threat. Only total war will suffice. I am happy to lead he fight, I know it is a thankless task. All I need is a billion dollars, a bunker in a chateau in Provence, and a lifetime supply of sparkling burgundy. It is a small price to pay for freedom. I think if we make a start of crowdfunding we should get there by lunchtime next Tuesday.

 

[Scodog10]

All I know is a good friend of mine has started treating one of our VFL listed players and was shocked with the lack of follow up/strengthening exercises after the initial injury had healed. I’m not sure whether our AFL sports science dept treats our VFL players or is seperate, but it’s a big worry if that’s how the club is treating all our players.

Given some of the horrendous recurrence problems and delayed returns to full training this comes as little surprise. There’s one guy that springs to mind who wouldn’t have made it, but suffered as a result of this type of “treatment” and I almost feel empathetic toward his situation.

I suspect the changes we made post 2019 may play a role in improving things and AT may prove a good reference point.

 

[ClaytonM]

60% of the time you are right every time.

Like some on here, always certain, often wrong.

 

[Quicky]

Given some of the horrendous recurrence problems and delayed returns to full training this comes as little surprise. There’s one guy that springs to mind who wouldn’t have made it, but suffered as a result of this type of “treatment” and I almost feel empathetic toward his situation.

I suspect the changes we made post 2019 may play a role in improving things and AT may prove a good reference point.

What changes did we make Sco?

 

[JB007]

What changes did we make Sco?

Physio of over 20 years at the Club being moved on maybe Quicky?

 

[TKiL]

........................ Only total war will suffice. I am happy to lead he fight, I know it is a thankless task. All I need is a billion dollars, a bunker in a chateau in Provence, and a lifetime supply of sparkling burgundy........

count me in - love sparking burgundy--- but usually with turkey @ Xmas - guess could swap for a nice Provence chook or even with Beef bourguignon ?? - maybe?

 

[jathanas]

We don't want your rescue.

Not because you likened us to Murdoch or Hitler, we could probably work around that insult. The moment that you extended that to Celine Dion, all bets were off.

Oh, we think you're Sarah Jessica Parker.

Behold the face of evil, under a cute and friendly mask. Like those Mormons yesterday who came and asked about whether I had heard about gods plan for me. I took them to see Josh in my love dungeon; I felt he would be better at answering their questions. They weren't so friendly then I can tell you; they even threw away my special belly button lint sculptures of John Smith I keep for such occasions. Barbarians.

No, jathanas, it is clear to me now. You are one of Them. The ones who provide aid and succor and hay and tasty carrots to the unspeakable ones. Like Clokey. You are beyond help.Also like Clokey. But I can still save your thoroughbreds. I am arranging an elite horse rescue squad as we speak. Stand fast yea equine hearts of oak. Your brethren are coming to save you from oppression at the hooves of the pony menace.

Away my horsetage rescue team!'

 

[magpies42]

The injury spread across the competition is concerning, the game seems to have evolved to a level that is not sustainable. The human body can not maintain the intensity required it seems.

I reckon the lack of performance enhancing drugs in our system is the point of difference in comparison...by all reports very common in the US.

 

[Gone Critical]

All I know is a good friend of mine has started treating one of our VFL listed players and was shocked with the lack of follow up/strengthening exercises after the initial injury had healed. I’m not sure whether our AFL sports science dept treats our VFL players or is seperate, but it’s a big worry if that’s how the club is treating all our players.

A physio friend?

 

[Apex36]

A physio friend?

Yes

 

[Scodog10]

Physio of over 20 years at the Club being moved on maybe Quicky?

Bingo. Collingwood’s issues since Davoran moved on have been limited to rehab which goes hand in glove with the first hand information you and I have plus what apex shared with us. I actually think White has done a terrific job and bar one or two isolated problems (the handling of Langdon‘s knee and Elliott’s ankle) the medical group have done a good job.

Unless we are being lied to there is no reason Treloar should not be fit for Rd 2 given the nature of his injury. The problem we’ve had in the past is that injuries of that nature have resulted in 6 week absences. I am hopeful that things have changed on this front.

 

[Drought Break]

Need to move away from continual resigning of injury prone players also. Can only carry one or 2, we seem to carry more than our fair share year after year. Reid, Broomhead, Sharenberg, Varcoe, Dunn etc. Moore and Treloar big concerns as well but obviously valuable when fit.