Pistons v Pacers Brawl!

[Portmanteau]

No doubt the fans did wrong as well, but it doesn't give the players the right to bash them.

Just as the fans don't have the right to throw cool beverages at players because they did something they didn't like...

The players are meant to be professional, but being degraded in such a fashion is not in their job description. Fans can't hide behind the "paid my money" excuse. You can't tell me if someone did that to you while you were minding your own business at your place of commerce, you wouldn't break at least one of their legs.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

it is Wallace's fault for loosing his cool over a simple foul, it was not artest fault, Wallace imo started the incident

Wallace started the first incident.

He can hardly be held accountable for Ron Artest's actions some minutes later.

Using your logic. Suppose Shane Crawford starts a push and shove with Matthew Scarlett. A minute or two later, Matthew Scarlett king hits Luke Hodge.

Would you be excusing Scarlett and blaming Crawford because he "started the incident?

Artest was just being stupid on the table, but still no reason for that ******** in the crowd to throw the drink at him, or the rest of the crowd throwing stuff at him as he was taken out back.

Of course there is no excuse for the fans behaviour, just as there should be no excuse for Ron Artest's behaviour. Right?

What happened to one being responsible for their own actions?

Artest stood up for himself

Running 4-5 metres to punch someone is standing up for yourself?

I'd have thought it was trying to exact revenge.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Just as the fans don't have the right to throw cool beverages at players because they did something they didn't like...

Of course they don't, and i've never said otherwise.

I've not excused the fans actions, whereas some have excused the players actions.

Neither is justified.

You can't tell me if someone did that to you while you were minding your own business at your place of commerce, you wouldn't break at least one of their legs.

Yes, yes i can.

I'm not in the business of breaking legs and i'm not troglodytic.

 

[feher]

Wallace started the first incident.

He can hardly be held accountable for Ron Artest's actions some minutes later.

Using your logic. Suppose Shane Crawford starts a push and shove with Matthew Scarlett. A minute or two later, Matthew Scarlett king hits Luke Hodge.

I agree to some extent, Wallace and the idiots in the crowd didn't help.

Would you be excusing Scarlett and blaming Crawford because he "started the incident?

Their is a difference, you might want to fix this up, Crawf pushed Scarlett, and then he hit Hodge, who did nothing wrong, the difference Wallace pushed Artest, that idiot in the crowd threw something on Artest, Artest only reacted, whereas you have Hodge doing nothing, so that analogy is wrong to start with.

Of course there is no excuse for the fans behaviour, just as there should be no excuse for Ron Artest's behaviour. Right?

its a tough one, as has being said, the person in the crowd should not be allowed to do what he did, i don't personally blame Artest for doing what he did, but he probably shouldn't have done it.

Running 4-5 metres to punch someone is standing up for yourself?

I'd have thought it was trying to exact revenge.

well he didn't exactly start the fight with the person in the crowd, the person started it, so in a way, why isn't he standing up for himself? if the guy in the crowd thought he couldn't take on Artest he shouldn't have done it, mind you Artest probably should have kept his cool.

 

[Borgsta]

I'd say it would be difficult for the fans to sue Artest and/or Jackson without copping a counter claim and im sure not too many regualr joes would have the cash to go through with something like that.

Dont forget that throwing beer at someone is considered assault. Also dont forget that many fans threw punches back at Artest and Jackson.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

I agree to some extent, Wallace and the idiots in the crowd didn't help.

Of course not, they all played their part, but i feel that blaming Wallace for Artest's actions is cheap.

Their is a difference, you might want to fix this up, Crawf pushed Scarlett, and then he hit Hodge, who did nothing wrong, the difference Wallace pushed Artest, that idiot in the crowd threw something on Artest, Artest only reacted, whereas you have Hodge doing nothing, so that analogy is wrong to start with.

The analogy isn't wrong at all as we were discussing Artest and Wallace's (read Scarlett and Crawford) actions, not the fans (or in this case, Luke Hodge's).

You're saying that because Wallace started the initial incident, whatever happened thereafter is on his head, despite the fact that he wasn't directly involved.

Transpose that to the footy, and using your logic, Crawford must be responsible because if he hadn't started the push and shove, Scarlett wouldn't have king hit Hodge in the ensuing melee.

The argument that the instigator (be it Wallace or Crawford) is responsible for anything thereafter is horribly flawed and simplistic.

its a tough one, as has being said, the person in the crowd should not be allowed to do what he did, i don't personally blame Artest for doing what he did, but he probably shouldn't have done it.

No doubt the fan did wrong, and hopefully he will be punished accordingly.

Just as he had no right to assault Artest, Artest had no right to assault him.

 

[Karbassiyoon]

replay as if live is going to come on ESPN soon

its 5:40 to go in the 4th

will be interesting to see what its like in real time as opposed to the cut up highlights from SC

 

[Borgsta]

hey when will the suspensions be handed out. We gotta play Indiana 2moro, im not sure they will have the required 8 players to start the match.

 

[Portmanteau]

James Jones just became the most in-demand fantasy baller...

 

[Fall Out Boy]

I'd say it would be difficult for the fans to sue Artest and/or Jackson without copping a counter claim and im sure not too many regualr joes would have the cash to go through with something like that.

Dont forget that throwing beer at someone is considered assault. Also dont forget that many fans threw punches back at Artest and Jackson.

No doubt those who threw beer/punches could also be charged, but given how deep the NBA and Ron Artest's pockets are, it would be well worth it.

Also have to consider the few innocent fans who merely got caught in the middle of the fighting.
Regardless of whether they were struck by a player or a fan, they have a cast iron case against the NBA, the Pistons and the arena management.

This is going to cost the NBA some major coin.

 

[feher]

You're saying that because Wallace started the initial incident, whatever happened thereafter is on his head, despite the fact that he wasn't directly involved.

it wasn't suppose to come across that way, i am blaming Wallace for starting the incident, i am blaming the fan for starting the fight against Artest and making things worse.

Just as he had no right to assault Artest, Artest had no right to assault him.

I still think that is a little too simple, in some ways i feel Artest was just defending himself, mind you throwing a punch makes it look worse, personally i don't totally blame Artest for his action, because in some way it is justified (the person throwing the drink at him, not Wallace shove, this is the confusion part me thinks), obviously you would prefer Artest wouldn't do that, so he should cop a punishment as well.

 

[Borgsta]

im not sure on the law but for me the NBA and the arena should both be exempt from any law suits. The guy who originally threw the beer should be up for any case that resulted from his stupidity. There is no way that the NBA or the arena can stop a fan being so stupid.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

in some ways i feel Artest was just defending himself

If the bloke was still all up in his face, the 'defending himself' line could wash, but it's a bit rich to claim he was 'just defending himself' when he ran 4-5 metres to hit the bloke (who was walking away).

BTW Thanks for clearing up the Wallace thing. Your earlier post gave me the impression you were blaming Wallace for Artest's actions.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

im not sure on the law but for me the NBA and the arena should both be exempt from any law suits. The guy who originally threw the beer should be up for any case that resulted from his stupidity. There is no way that the NBA or the arena can stop a fan being so stupid.

Sorry champ, but the NBA, the Pistons and the arena are well and truly in the legal firing line.

As the host and conductors of the event, they have a duty of care to all their patrons.

You may not agree with it, but that's the law.

 

[feher]

If the bloke was still all up in his face, the 'defending himself' line could wash, but it's a bit rich to claim he was 'just defending himself' when he ran 4-5 metres to hit the bloke (who was walking away).

You have a point, i think the fan only started leaving after Artest was on his way up, so in away Artest may still have felt more stuff was going to be thrown his way. Otherwise i think we agree on most things, probably not punishment though

BTW Thanks for clearing up the Wallace thing. Your earlier post gave me the impression you were blaming Wallace for Artest's actions.

no problems, it was my bad.

 

[Borgsta]

Sorry champ, but the NBA, the Pistons and the arena are well and truly in the legal firing line.

As the host and conductors of the event, they have a duty of care to all their patrons.

You may not agree with it, but that's the law.

Yeah thats why i said i dont know the law. Its a shame really. Hopefully the NBA can either sue that guy and retrieve some money or the guy gets charged with inciting violence and/or a riot.

Ps. Still wanna know when the suspensions will be handed out.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Yeah thats why i said i dont know the law. Its a shame really. Hopefully the NBA can either sue that guy and retrieve some money or the guy gets charged with inciting violence and/or a riot.

The NBA won't bother suing the guy, but no doubt he will get a lifetime ban.

As for inciting a riot. If the law was to go down that route, Artest would also be charged.
The bloke incited Artest, and Artest's punches incited the brawl.

 

[Borgsta]

As for inciting a riot. If the law was to go down that route, Artest would also be charged.
The bloke incited Artest, and Artest's punches incited the brawl.

win-win situation i say

 

[Presti_is_god]

How long a holiday you think the main offenders will get?

 

[Falchoon]

The way I see it.

Artest makes a cheap foul, unnecessary but nothing too serious, never any chance of injury, one of those thanks mate for the extra shot type of fouls.

Wallace takes a cheap shot, forceful and aimed at the neck region, completely unnecessary, and the thing I hated most about playing basketball. If you can't cop it, play lawn bowls for gods sakes or at least have the decency to wait 30 seconds and tunnel or put a cheap block on Artest down the other end. Reactionary actions always cost you more than a well plotted tunnel or cheap screen down the other end- trust me but I digress.

That is part one of the story, no need to worry Indiana, 5 games plus for Wallace.

Part 2, not liquid to Artests head but a blue plastic drink bottle thrown with force from a short distance, that as your favourite primary school teacher was wanton to say could have taken an eye out. Artest was well within his right to jump the crowd and apprehend the offender.

However he may have gone just a tad overboard and has to be suspended for a 10 match or more period. Jackson I thought was worse and should go for 10-15 matches.O'Neal maybe 5, and a side laugh at Tinsley who was restrained at least 4 times from jumping the scorers bench before finally decking the bloke holding him back.

Detroit fans, next 5 home games no fans, follow the European soccer lead. The biggest disgrace of the whole affair.


As for suing the NBA and the players, innocent parties only need apply.

 

[Dingster]

Artest is definitely innocent. O'Neal, Jackson, Croshere, Wallace, Billups and Rip should have a year off.

Sponsored by the Dingbats.

 

[Showbag]

******** this! This is no way to play the sport I love. I'm not going to follow the NBA unless the perpetrators are out for the time they deserve, this is disgusting.

 

[Borgsta]

******** this! This is no way to play the sport I love. I'm not going to follow the NBA unless the perpetrators are out for the time they deserve, this is disgusting.

how much time is that?

The funny thing is this will all be forgotten in 2 weeks time, only to be brought up again on Christmas Day

 

[Showbag]

how much time is that?

The funny thing is this will all be forgotten in 2 weeks time, only to be brought up again on Christmas Day

What about the matchups on Christmas Day:
Lakers v. Heat
Indiana v. Detroit

The NBA couldn't hope for better. The fans certainly could.

 

[eastaugh36]

4 players involved given indefinite suspensions to start immediately. I'm glad none of them are on my fantasy team!