Conspiracy Theory Pizzagate *DEBUNKED

evo · Dec 22, 2016

BustedWing said:
A connect the dots type thing?

Thats warped logic. Either there is evidence, or there is not.

What?I even said in the bit you quoted it's a preponderance of evidence. That's how logic works.

Of course it's a connect the dots type thing. That's how investigations work.

lol

cannot · Dec 22, 2016

BustedWing said:
???? Not sure what you're saying here.

i was calling you the 'proof police', as a joke of sorts - saying you have no proof in regards to my question from previous,

implying funny that isn't it as you demand solid proof in other subjects

BustedWing said:
A connect the dots type thing?

Thats warped logic. Either there is evidence, or there is not. If the only way you can conclude the conspiracy is true is to "read the signs", "interpret what they are REALLY saying" then you are not looking at proof, you are projecting a narrative onto something that isnt there.

Evidence. Not some guys interpretation. evidence. But hey, I'll take a look at the various things posted on here, and let you know my thoughts...

let me try this way,

the powers that be attempted to destrory the evidence in regard to 'mkultra'

most of it was destroyed however some was forgotten and found by the people investigating watergate

now, if the gov. remembered to destroy these documents, along with the rest. there would be no proof at all

you would be very upset if people were to say the authorities were running a mind control program on the tax payer because there is no proof ..

This is an example how there can be no evidence and yet it still be true... agreed?

BustedWing · Dec 22, 2016

cannot said:
you demand solid proof in other subjects

I demand solid proof to be convinced of any theory. Pizzagate, 9/11, moon landngs etc are no exception.

cannot said:
you would be very upset if people were to say the authorities were running a mind control program on the tax payer because there is no proof ..

This is an example how there can be no evidence and yet it still be true... agreed?

There might be many things out there that are true, yet there is no proof of it. That doesn't mean your evidence free opinion holds just as much weight as someone elses viewpoint that is rooted in evidence. If you qualify your position, however, then we all get along.

An example...

Perhaps god did make the world in 7 days. I am fine with people believing that, in spite of there being no evidence that is the case.

What I do have issue with, is people saying "its a proven fact!!" he did it, or "its common knowledge that evolution and archaeological history is all a conspiracy by the Illuminati designed to hide you from the truth! Here, watch this 3 hour video"

People who say, "I have no proof my religion is real, but I still believe"...thats a-ok by me!

cannot · Dec 22, 2016

BustedWing said:
I dont think you understand this position properly. Perhaps I didnt explain well enough...

Reasonable probability is another way of saying "beyond reasonable doubt". The example I responded to, Hitlers death, is proven beyond reasonable doubt. In order for it to be NOT true, all the evidence put forward would need to have been fabricated, planted and so on. Although, theoretically its possible it could have been fabricated, there isnt any evidence of this taking place. Therefore, any REASONABLE person would deduce Hitler did in fact die in 1945 in a bunker.

This is roughly the same model our justice system is built on. To prove beyond reasonable doubt is different from eliminating and proving false all other scenarios, rather, its running with the explanation that is most likely (by far) to be the correct one.

Does that make sense?

I speak about using eyewitness accounts as evidence elsewhere, but my position is thus:

Use it as an indication of the truth, and use weight of numbers. If one person saw a UFO, but 450 just saw a weather balloon, then its incredibly likely to be a weather balloon. Sure, its mathematically possible that the one person who saw a UFO is correct, and the other 450 were mistaken, but that would be a "reasonable" position to take, would it.

If there was weather balloon wreckage found nearby, and there was an announcement about weather balloon flights in the area as well....well...I think we can know call it for what it is.

I dispute this - my goal posts are actually pretty rigid.

I'll state it clearly, as its the same for both this conversation and for 9/11, moon landings etc.

For me to believe something, I need to see evidence. There is no evidence for the 9/11 conspiracy. There is no evidence for the moon landings being faked. So far, I havent seen any evidence of pizzagate either.

Well i respectfully object. You have offered no evidence, proof (beyond reasonable doubt or otherwise) in regard to the previous example; apart from the very strange inference the top notch nazi mates of his would not lie in regard to their leader going walk about

you are happy to accept this case without proof it would seem and yet hold the far higher standards for other examples; like people linked to 9/11 that have shot themselves 4 times, put themselves in a box and locked it

does this making you a shill or JIDF trained? certainly not but for mine your goal posts are all of the place depending on how the situation suits you at the time

Does that make sense?

BustedWing · Dec 22, 2016

cannot said:
Well i respectfully object. You have offered no evidence, proof (beyond reasonable doubt or otherwise) in regard to the previous example;

Correct- I have not put forward any evidence. This doesn't however disqualify my opinion that proof is vital in establishing credibility for a position.

cannot said:
you are happy to accept this case without proof

Sure I am, as it is the generally accepted narrative, there is evidence in the form of eyewitness reports, sworn testimony and jawbone fragments, and no compelling evidence has been put forward for an alternative one. If/when that occurs, opinions will change. Perhaps the eyewitnesses are liars. Perhaps the jawbone is a fake. Prove it, and you have a case!

cannot said:
you are happy to accept this case without proof it would seem and yet hold the far higher standards for just examples like people linked to 9/11 that have shot themselves 4 times, put themselves in a box and locked it

My position can be summed up thusly: If you're going to make an extraordinary claim, then you must also come armed with extraordinary evidence. 9/11 being an inside job, is most definitely extraordinary. So would be moon landings being faked. So would pizzagate. The burden of proof is on those making the extraordinary claims.

cannot said:
certainly not but for mine your goal posts are all of the place depending on how the situation suits you at the time

Absolutely not. My goalposts are pretty clear. If you make a claim and state it is a fact, then you need to provide EVIDENCE. If you state that someone elses position is wrong, then you need to PROVE why.

If you dont, then your opinion is worthless.

cannot · Dec 22, 2016

BustedWing said:
... as it is the generally accepted narrative

at least you are getting more honest now :thumbsu:

BustedWing · Dec 22, 2016

cannot said:
at least you are getting more honest now

I resent the implication that I have been less honest. I pride myself in my integrity on this sort of thing.

cannot · Dec 22, 2016

BustedWing said:
Correct- I have not put forward any evidence

nor has anyone and yet you do not attempt to debunk this sort of thing how convenient

only the like of 9/11, pizagte,

. This doesn't however disqualify my opinion that proof is vital in establishing credibility for a position.

yet in the absence of proof you completely beleive hitler died on the reported day .. how do you pick and choose which to go with when there is not proof? must be confusing

i guess its safest to sail close to the generally accepted narrative,

Sure I am, as it is the generally accepted narrative, there is evidence in the form of eyewitness reports,

sworn testimony

yeah ... from his mates

and jawbone fragments

as said previous - the skull was a women's, planes were reported flying out of berlin towards the end, the dental records were done from memory

, and no compelling evidence has been put forward for an alternative one.

are you sure

Perhaps the eyewitnesses are liars.

perhaps

would a high up nazi lie to protect hitler? gee thats a tough one

Perhaps the jawbone is a fake. Prove it, and you have a case!

i think you will fine this has thus been established by others

My position can be summed up thusly: If you're going to make an extraordinary claim, then you must also come armed with extraordinary evidence. 9/11 being an inside job, is most definitely extraordinary. So would be moon landings being faked. So would pizzagate. The burden of proof is on those making the extraordinary claims

.

thank you sagan; who determines which claims are extraordinary and which are not? who is in charge of issueing whats abd whats not generally accepted narrative, do you think you can edit the pizagte wiki page if you found some evidence?

if you look at the history of america (wars, false flags, general corruption and things that are just not cricket) 9/11 being an inside job would not be extraordinary give the backdrop. if you take look at history of child molestation pizagte would not be extraordinary. government corruption and sometimes child abuse are the norm sadly there is vast historical evidence

Absolutely not. My goalposts are pretty clear. If you make a claim and state it is a fact, then you need to provide EVIDENCE. If you state that someone elses position is wrong, then you need to PROVE why.

If you dont, then your opinion is worthless.

i would argue you have shown your hand

i did not attempt to besmirch your honor i may have chosen the wrong words previously - hopefully no hard feelings

To sum up what I was originally trying to get at is say, the people that coincidental strangely died in relationship to 9/11 the 100 odd; you demanded the highest standards of evidence before even considering the topic being worthy of debate, yet for others you have lesser standards why ? theres nothing wrong with having fliud goal posts its just better to be aware thats your position. Another term for it is having the blinkers on

BustedWing · Dec 23, 2016

cannot said:
nor has anyone and yet you do not attempt to debunk this sort of thing how convenient

only the like of 9/11, pizagte,

Not sure of your point here. Re 9/11 I will call out bullshit when I see it, and I challenge anyone who disputes the original story to prove it to be incorrect.

Pizzagate, I haven't yet tried to debunk anything yet, but what I have done is ask for evidence supporting your position. What I have seen thus far is not evidence, rather people interpreting their own meanings of emails. Thats it. For me to believe it, I need more, Not, "check out this wierd email, I think it means this!"
That's not evidence. That's someones opinion.

cannot said:
yet in the absence of proof you completely beleive hitler died on the reported day .. how do you pick and choose which to go with when there is not proof?

I go with the generally accepted theory. If I see conflicting evidence, then I will review my position. The generally accepted position by the overwhelming majority of ww2 historians is that he died in 1945. I will go with the opinions of those who know more than me on the subject, until I see evidence to the contrary.

I havent yet seen that evidence.

cannot said:
are you sure

I havent yet seen it. Got some to share?

cannot said:
perhaps

would a high up nazi lie to protect hitler? gee thats a tough one

Supposition - not evidence.

cannot said:
as said previous - the skull was a women's, planes were reported flying out of berlin towards the end, the dental records were done from memory

yep saw the skull reports - and I will cheerfully retract that statement. Jawbone, however, has not yet been debunked as far as I can see.

cannot said:
i think you will fine this has thus been established by others

I havent seen it, and a question for you, if its been proven to be a fake (or at least, not Hitlers) then why is this not acknowledged by the majority of historians? Are they "in on it too"??

cannot said:
thank you sagan; who determines which claims are extraordinary and which are not?

He was one smart dude wasnt he!
Are you seriously going to sit here and tell me that 9/11 being an inside job, that if it were proven, is not one of the most extroadinary stories of our history???

Powerful people fiddling with kids is not extraordinary in and of itself, but thats not your narrative is it. Your narrative is that powerful people fiddle kids, AND the media, law enforcement and US government know, but will do nothing, and in fact seek to cover it up. THAT, my friend, IS extraordinary.
Who decides whats extraordinary and whats not? Not me. Not you. The public as a collective does. If you dont think that your conspiracy stories are not extraordinary, then we are going to just have to agree to disagree, and I will do just that shaking my head at you in bewilderment.

cannot said:
if you look at the history of america (wars, false flags, general corruption and things that are just not cricket) 9/11 being an inside job would not be extraordinary give the backdrop.

I think you would agree that there are some rather HUGE differences between Operation Northwoods, MK Ultra and 9/11. I assume you were referring to these? If you were referring to things like sandy hook etc, then I think you're too far down the rabbit hole for reason.

cannot said:
i would argue you have shown your hand

Sigh.... My "hand" is simple. Make a claim, support it with evidence. Expect (and welcome) others to critique your evidence, and if it stands up to that scrutiny, then it has weight.

If it does not, then it should be discarded.

cannot said:
To sum up what I was originally trying to get at is say, the people that coincidental strangely died in relationship to 9/11 the 100 odd; you demanded the highest standards of evidence before even considering the topic being worthy of debate, yet for others you have lesser standards why ?

Why do I feel like we are going round and round in circles.

Not at all. I demand the highest standards for both. Why do I beleive hitler died in 1945, yet my default position that these "strange 9/11 deaths" are almost certainly bullshit? Why is this not a hypocritical position to take?

I believe Hitler because the EXPERTS IN THE FIELD (the OVERWHELMING majority) agree with this position. Its not academically up for debate. For me to go against that weight of expert authority would require me to see some evidence they are either all wrong, or all "in on the conspiracy". both seem incredibly unlikely. But hey, show me evidence of this, and I will stand right next to you.

I side with 9/11 for the same reasons, but it is also reinforced by the fact that I have now seen this evidence, and to me it stacks up just fine. The evidence to the contrary is easily debunked, and frankly just silly in some instances. There has also never been an alternative explanation that creates a narrative. Just questions being asked in an attempts to cast doubt on the OS.

Could I be wrong? Sure! Its technically possible. No one has been able to show that I am, however.

Show me Hitler lived in South America, and I will change my mind.

Show me that the 9/11 OS is wrong, and I will change my mind.

cannot · Dec 24, 2016

BustedWing said:
Not sure of your point here. Re 9/11 I will call out bullshit when I see it, and I challenge anyone who disputes the original story to prove it to be incorrect.

Pizzagate, I haven't yet tried to debunk anything yet, but what I have done is ask for evidence supporting your position. What I have seen thus far is not evidence, rather people interpreting their own meanings of emails. Thats it. For me to believe it, I need more, Not, "check out this wierd email, I think it means this!"
That's not evidence. That's someones opinion.

I go with the generally accepted theory. If I see conflicting evidence, then I will review my position. The generally accepted position by the overwhelming majority of ww2 historians is that he died in 1945. I will go with the opinions of those who know more than me on the subject, until I see evidence to the contrary.

I havent yet seen that evidence.

I havent yet seen it. Got some to share?

Supposition - not evidence.

yep saw the skull reports - and I will cheerfully retract that statement. Jawbone, however, has not yet been debunked as far as I can see.

I havent seen it, and a question for you, if its been proven to be a fake (or at least, not Hitlers) then why is this not acknowledged by the majority of historians? Are they "in on it too"??

He was one smart dude wasnt he!
Are you seriously going to sit here and tell me that 9/11 being an inside job, that if it were proven, is not one of the most extroadinary stories of our history???

Powerful people fiddling with kids is not extraordinary in and of itself, but thats not your narrative is it. Your narrative is that powerful people fiddle kids, AND the media, law enforcement and US government know, but will do nothing, and in fact seek to cover it up. THAT, my friend, IS extraordinary.
Who decides whats extraordinary and whats not? Not me. Not you. The public as a collective does. If you dont think that your conspiracy stories are not extraordinary, then we are going to just have to agree to disagree, and I will do just that shaking my head at you in bewilderment.

I think you would agree that there are some rather HUGE differences between Operation Northwoods, MK Ultra and 9/11. I assume you were referring to these? If you were referring to things like sandy hook etc, then I think you're too far down the rabbit hole for reason.

Sigh.... My "hand" is simple. Make a claim, support it with evidence. Expect (and welcome) others to critique your evidence, and if it stands up to that scrutiny, then it has weight.

If it does not, then it should be discarded.

Why do I feel like we are going round and round in circles.

Not at all. I demand the highest standards for both. Why do I beleive hitler died in 1945, yet my default position that these "strange 9/11 deaths" are almost certainly bullshit? Why is this not a hypocritical position to take?

I believe Hitler because the EXPERTS IN THE FIELD (the OVERWHELMING majority) agree with this position. Its not academically up for debate. For me to go against that weight of expert authority would require me to see some evidence they are either all wrong, or all "in on the conspiracy". both seem incredibly unlikely. But hey, show me evidence of this, and I will stand right next to you.

I side with 9/11 for the same reasons, but it is also reinforced by the fact that I have now seen this evidence, and to me it stacks up just fine. The evidence to the contrary is easily debunked, and frankly just silly in some instances. There has also never been an alternative explanation that creates a narrative. Just questions being asked in an attempts to cast doubt on the OS.

Could I be wrong? Sure! Its technically possible. No one has been able to show that I am, however.

Show me Hitler lived in South America, and I will change my mind.

Show me that the 9/11 OS is wrong, and I will change my mind.

What happens when you type "webcam video from" into YouTube. ?

[–] SpontaneousSpectator 11 points (+12|-1) 6 hours ago

"Clicked on a random video and all of the comments were people sharing phone numbers and Kik accounts and advertising CP to trade."

[/QUOTE]

BustedWing · Dec 24, 2016

cannot said:

You "clicked on a random link" and you found child pr0n????

And you're sharing it here????

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

cannot · Dec 24, 2016

BustedWing said:
You

No, not me

[–] SpontaneousSpectator 11 points (+12|-1) 6 hours ago

"Clicked on a random video and all of the comments were people sharing phone numbers and Kik accounts and advertising CP to trade."

The quotation marks indicate i am quoting from the website: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1512252

"clicked on a random link" and you found child pr0n????

And you're sharing it here????

I've not found anything, I've read if you type 'webcam video from' into youtube question material possibile relating to pizzagte is shown

That is as far I investigate

cannot · Dec 24, 2016

[–] auroraaurora 1 points (+1|-0) 44 minutes ago (edited 40 minutes ago)
"I have noticed some comments "suggest" there is nothing to these uploads, they are innocent, inadvertent "mistakes". Certainly not all. If you click on the users and visit their channel, some are suspicious, such as this one of "seemingly" advertise with young models:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbTeLkxzaI0zC_3S9yV6xcQ Only 3 videos, last uploaded 9 years ago, a million views, 743 followers. The channel seems to be an advertising for "contacts". From there, there are loads more even more suggestive of being a "pimping" exchange, contact. Other channels such as this one called "ilovecandy2" : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSulEhyV5rUPh8302i9upsA are suspicious for their content centered around a young girl or girls and being centered with all manner of toys and shows for that age group. I came across the term "cupcake" twice, (cupcake addiction) and "muffin" (little pony video it's muffin time), seems to be a code word for something. There are channels created by adults who exploit children in a way suggestive of pedophilia and "marketing". The channels may be a "front", for commerce and exchange with like minded people. Checking the channel subscriptions is also very telling. There are almost always either questionable "child glitter glamour" or weird shows for kids and eventually, some occult references. I stopped as there are just too many of these channels."

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1512252

BustedWing · Dec 24, 2016

cannot said:
No, not me

The quotation marks indicate i am quoting from the website: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1512252

I've not found anything, I've read if you type 'webcam video from' into youtube question material possibile relating to pizzagte is shown

That is as far I investigate

Im certainly not clicking on it to find out!

cannot · Dec 24, 2016

BustedWing said:
Im certainly not clicking on it to find out!

it seems as we agree on that one

cannot · Dec 24, 2016

Procrastinator35 · Dec 24, 2016

It's not like the cops are going to actually arrest anyone who counts....After all, their usually in their pockets.

Splashing a few million here & there, to make things disappear, is nothing unusual in Washington.

cannot · Dec 24, 2016

BustedWing said:
You "clicked on a random link" and you found child pr0n????

And you're sharing it here????

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

id like to acknowledge i rather resent the wording of this

it might be worth remembering you are banging on about proof religiously and have taken the default position of defender of alleged pedos after not worrying to previously research

i kind of hope santa gets you a box of door knobs.

cannot · Dec 25, 2016

WallyStringhaus · Dec 26, 2016

cannot said:

God thats disturbing.

cannot · Dec 27, 2016

On Monday February 27th, 2012, WikiLeaks began publishing The Global Intelligence Files, over five million e-mails from the Texas headquartered "global intelligence" company Stratfor. The e-mails date between July 2004 and late December 2011. They reveal the inner workings of a company that fronts as an intelligence publisher, but provides confidential intelligence services to large corporations, such as Bhopal's Dow Chemical Co., Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and government agencies, including the US Department of Homeland Security, the US Marines and the US Defence Intelligence Agency. The emails show Stratfor's web of informers, pay-off structure, payment laundering techniques and psychological methods.

testing the Pizza Pages - your list
Released on 2013-11-15 00:00 GMT

Email-ID 1330663
Date 2011-03-01 19:09:02
From
To gibbons@stratfor.com, Solomon.Foshko@stratfor.com, ryan.sims@stratfor.com
testing the Pizza Pages - your list

As of today we are able to test the new credit card landing pages
(Pizza).
We have until the end of the week to find as many bugs / errors / weird
stuff before launching to real visitors. Below you'll find a list of
questions I've come up with that i need your help in thoroughly testing.
These questions are tailored specifically toward your department and we
are relying on you to find any problems.
As you go through the different scenarios please take notes on anything
that seems weird or doesn't work.
Additionally, If you just notice something that doesnt make sense (even if
it's not on on your question list), make a note.
To reduce clutter, all feedback should be sent directly to me as soon as
possible. Do not open any new IT tickets.
Please use as many web browsers as you have available.
If you end up in the "Original" Credit Card campaign version, in order to
see the new version you'll have to clear your stratfor cookies and refresh
the page. Once you have the Pizza version You should be able to view all
campaign pages in the new version, even if you close your browser and come
back later.
Test server:
http://staging.stratfor.com
Testing Transactions:
At the moment, you can use your own credit card and any email address, but
also use this:
First Name: Pizza
Last Name: Testing
Email address to use: Anythingyouwant@elkinsspace.com
To check the emails you'll get when signing up login here:
URL: http://webmail.elkinsspace.com
username: catch-all
password: pass1010
Your Questions - Service Dept
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Are test pages (both A &B versions) pushing the right data to iPay?

- refcode

- modality

- price

- address

- premium attached? Shipping? (only on newly created campaign pages)

- Which version of the campaign page they came from (old or new)

2) International Orders being processed properly?

- What about any common international order processing issues?

- Does postal code box map to the right spot in ipay?

https://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/emailid/1330663%

3) Does the *Questions* tile work?

4) does the page show as secure in all browsers (SSL?)

BustedWing said:
I demand solid proof to be convinced of any theory. Pizzagate

wot about international pizza delivery?

have you ever ordered a pizza from milan? you should they are yum

cannot · Dec 27, 2016

Podesta affiliated company called "Gusifer, LLC". It runs an international adoption agency...

Procrastinator35 · Dec 27, 2016

cannot said:
Podesta affiliated company called "Gusifer, LLC". It runs an international adoption agency...

The plot thickens.

cannot · Dec 29, 2016

50% of Donald Trump voters believe Hillary Clinton is involved in pedophilia ring:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/50-trump-fans-clinton-involved-pedophilia-article-1.2926098

Nearly half of the nation’s Republicans believe John Podesta’s leaked emails contain coded messages referring to “pedophilia, human trafficking and satanic ritual abuse,” according to a new poll from The Economist and YouGov. But more shocking is the number of Dems who have signed on to the asinine conspiracy: Twenty four percent say Pizzagate is “definitely” or “probably” true.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...ber-of-democrats-think-pizzagate-is-true.html

cannot · Jan 6, 2017

Hey, Voat, we were told this is a safe place. Ale****ingfantis mentioned me in this video. I emplore you to keep my information safe. I knew how dangerous this was and came to Voat precisely because I trust you to protect my anonymity. James is literally threatening lives. Please don't put mine in danger by giving out my info, no matter what he says. Thanks in advance.

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1541627

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Conspiracy Theory Pizzagate *DEBUNKED

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