Plan B?

[CaptainCharisma]

I hope this isn't moved to the rant thread, because it's not a rant.

We lost the game tonight because we were out-coached, simple as that. I'm not anti-Ratten or asking for his head because I tend to be a calm, rational person after a loss.
I just want to know can we develop something to turn it around mid-game when the match is not on our terms like tonight and vs Essendon? A Plan B?

To my two points from tonight;

Murphy tagged out of the game from the start. First quarter Judd and Simpson dominate, St. Kilda's plan to cut our outside runners meant Ray goes to shut Simmo down and leave Judd and the game changes from there in to St. Kilda's terms.
We had nothing in the coaches box to either bring these boys back into the game (leaving Murphy in the pocket for a half failed) or a positive move to bring the game back onto our terms.

We dominated the ruck and got smashed in the clearances, this is by far the biggest area of our game this year that has stagnated.
Something needs to be done about our clearance work and fast.


I believe we can turn this around and make the most of a 5-2 start without playing our best football yet. It is going to take some work in the coaches box though!

Stay positive Blues fans, and have faith in our personnel to turn this around before Adelaide next Sunday

Any opinions on how tactically we can turn this around are appreciated, I care little for "Sack Ratten" "Williams has no idea" etc.

 

[Dumpstar]

Should we move Murphy forward when he's being shut down or should we let him try and play his way through the tag? I can't remember him being held like that for a long time. Any other games where he has been shut down like that?

Carazzo is a big reason as to why we are losing the clearances. He would shut down basically the oppositions number 1 midfielder while still getting 30+ himself and I think one game this season he had 12 clearances so he can get them as well.

Ellard was injured at the start of this season yes? I've always like Ellard and always want him in the side. Should play from now on and i'd love to see our clearance stats post his inclusion tonight.

 

[CaptainCharisma]

Should we move Murphy forward when he's being shut down or should we let him try and play his way through the tag? I can't remember him being held like that for a long time. Any other games where he has been shut down like that?

Carazzo is a big reason as to why we are losing the clearances. He would shut down basically the oppositions number 1 midfielder while still getting 30+ himself and I think one game this season he had 12 clearances so he can get them as well.

Ellard was injured at the start of this season yes? I've always like Ellard and always want him in the side. Should play from now on and i'd love to see our clearance stats post his inclusion tonight.

Murphy is an interesting question, I thought he started to break his tags quite well from last year. He has been elite for 18 months for us. He is allowed a bad night before we get too concerned though.
I thought once we moved Murph forward, Walker could have replaced him in the guts as his replacement for an extended period, only saw him in there for one bounce. It would have been a positive move that could of thrown the Saints a bit. Especially as he seemed to of taken his angry pills early on in the game.
Could this be an option going forward?

Carrazzo's absence is only highlighting his value to our side this season, his work on Pendlebury was phenomenal. Him in the side tonight allows Armfield to move back onto one of the 3 small forwards that cut us up so badly as Joseph doesn't seem to be the answer after tonight's performance.
I thought Ellard should have been Carrazzo's replacement from the start and was disappointed he was named as a sub tonight. He proved himself and will start in the centre square against the Crows IMO.

 

[Krooooze]

Can some1 explain to me what our Plan A is? I seriously can't work out what our game plan is after watching us the last few weeks.

 

[jezzatigerbrent]

I'd use Walker at centre bounces until Carrazzo gets back

Why did we keep Kerr on the list when Saad was kicking 8 goals in our 2nds..& he was so clean with skills & innate goal sense

I don't think we ever take advantage of Touhy's ability to kick the ball 70metres ala Hurn for WC..I THINK HE CAN KICK OVER THE ZONES TO A HOT-SPOT 15-20 MTRS OUT FROM OUR GOALS.. after dashing clear as a designated kicker..especially tonight when we had Waite,Kruezer,& Hampson as potential targets with smaller opponents..& Betts/Garlett at their feet

Especially when the short fancy spot up shorter kicks were missing the target all night from all players..& resulting in turnovers that hurt..I DON'T SEE ANY DOWNSIDE IN TOUHY BELTING IT LONG INTO A HOT SPOT especially as a PLAN B

 

[GenuineMatchWinner]

This is a good question and the simple answer is i don't think we really have one. Seriously this was the most frustrating part of watching this game for me, was the lack of will to change things up and try and find a spark. Its one thing to have a bad night at the office but its like hoisting up the white flag when your not willing to change and adapt the strategies to give ourselves a chance.

I would still be annoyed if we lose but at least you have something to hang your hat on then, that you at least tried to change things into our favour. It was as clear as day early that our midfield and forward structure was going to struggle in the circumstances and our backs aren't capable of sustaining such constant pressure, simply not good enough.

Just a couple ideas of what a plan B could of been tonight.
Why not bring a walker onto the ball to get him involved in the game to see if he can give us a spark around the ball, i only saw him there once and got the clearance and sent us deep forward,
maybe send gibbs forward,granted he isn't a physical type player but might get him involved he can mark the footy and it would give us another option to go through him to hit up our forwards and open play up. This gives ratten the chance to get him to express himself a bit and might get him in a more attacking mode instead of being so naturally defensive as i feel this might be a major problem with him at this point, if he gets attacking and aggresive a bit it might get him tougher around the pill as well.
Try releasing murphy with blocks at contests to get him some space, maybe even send him behind the ball to get off the leash for 5 minutes and bring a scotland up through the midfield then re-introduce him with some momentum, at least try to upset the oppositions plans and structures, it might shake the tag and give murph a bit of pep for when he moves back in.
Jeez even bring hampson and kreuzer up on ball together and let kreuzer roam for a couple of minutes as a big midfielder to bash and crash contests and win footy and send robinson forward?
But most of all some accountable football would be really nice, the lack of fight, accountability and judgement kill us far too often!

All just suggestions and maybe not the answer to fix the issue but we aren't willing to adapt and try different things, when in that situation, whats wrong with doing something unexpected and suprising to the opposition? With no plan B or other ideas, it gives us no chance to change the direction of a match

We just don't think or act when required to change the flow of things and this will hurt us alot if it doesn't change soon!

 

[GenuineMatchWinner]

I'd use Walker at centre bounces until Carrazzo gets back

Why did we keep Kerr on the list when Saad was kicking 8 goals in our 2nds..& he was so clean with skills & innate goal sense

I don't think we ever take advantage of Touhy's ability to kick the ball 70metres ala Hurn for WC..I THINK HE CAN KICK OVER THE ZONES TO A HOT-SPOT 15-20 MTRS OUT FROM OUR GOALS.. after dashing clear as a designated kicker..especially tonight when we had Waite,Kruezer,& Hampson as potential targets with smaller opponents..& Betts/Garlett at their feet

Especially when the short fancy spot up shorter kicks were missing the target all night from all players..& resulting in turnovers that hurt..I DON'T SEE ANY DOWNSIDE IN TOUHY BELTING IT LONG INTO A HOT SPOT especially as a PLAN B

I agree i would like to see this at least explored if the short game is off like tonight. what is wrong with getting Tuohy the ball at the centre/half forward a bit like what Hurn does for the eagles and hitting it deep over the initial wave of players where there is often more space or even having a ping (within reason!), just changes things up, sides won't expect him to be having a go!

It would also mean that when the opposition defenders sag back if he is in the area it opens space for the forwards to lead up, and would make his opponent not so attacking minded, its a win win if you ask me!

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Posted this in the Hardness thread but maybe it belongs here :


Hardness certainly can be improved (maybe 'taught' if that's the right word).

If anyone remembers Essendon around the 1997-98 period they were soft - said so themselves.

But they were able to change and become one tough unit during 1999-2001.

A lot of what we see as 'hardness' is actually 'confidence'. When a team is confident and playing well you aren't second guessing yourself and taking that extra moment to make a decision and fumbling which then looks like softness.

Unfortunately I think this comes back to the coaching. To me, we never look 'well drilled' like maybe a Sydney or Adelaide team might look. Even GWS seemed better drilled than us last week and more confident in where they were supposed to run and what to do with the ball.

 

[jezzatigerbrent]

I agree i would like to see this at least explored if the short game is off like tonight. what is wrong with getting Tuohy the ball at the centre/half forward a bit like what Hurn does for the eagles and hitting it deep over the initial wave of players where there is often more space or even having a ping (within reason!), just changes things up, sides won't expect him to be having a go!

It would also mean that when the opposition defenders sag back if he is in the area it opens space for the forwards to lead up, and would make his opponent not so attacking minded, its a win win if you ask me!

When Touhy gets it with a clear run ahead i always exclaim loudly ''just belt it in there'' but i feel he is under instructions to spot it up to a hit-up target as well
It's just that like Hurn at WC,Touhy's long kicking is a real offensive weapon that gets the ball in quickly to the ''hot spot''.

Even those beastly long Touhy kick outs a/f behinds down the middle then marking/punching with Hammer/Krueze as targets >>> gets it out over the zone/press & allow for e.g. Simmo/Judd/Murph etc to run onto it >> & into an open fwd 50[if Hamme/Kruez don't mark it]
U & me both GMW can't see any downside..especially when precise footskills r resulting as turn-overs like they did tonight

 

[Boltfromtheblue]

Plan B should also involve:
-tightening up defensively on the fast break over the back
-punching Milne
-running to cover the spread of the opposition not just to creat our own spread when we have the ball
-punching Milne
-improving our ability to shut down quick forwards (joseph not instinctive enough, just reactionary)
-punching Milne (and not only when we play StKilda)

 

[cookie monster]

Can some1 explain to me what our Plan A is? I seriously can't work out what our game plan is after watching us the last few weeks.

I'll have a go... Everyone just starts running forward from the centre bounce?

So glad we invested in a midfield stoppages coach. What's he done for us?

We are not dynamic at all. People say Ratten is reactive, I beg to differ. What has he done to counteract opposition moves mid game. Time to stop barracking, and start coaching

 

[Malifice]

Plan B should also involve:
-tightening up defensively on the fast break over the back
-punching Milne
-running to cover the spread of the opposition not just to creat our own spread when we have the ball
-punching Milne
-improving our ability to shut down quick forwards (joseph not instinctive enough, just reactionary)
-punching Milne (and not only when we play StKilda)

I laughed.

 

[ctacp]

dominated the ruck ? - watch hampson in ruck, he ONLY palms the ball behind himself over his shoulder. ALL his ruck taps in the middle are the same thing. thats why other teams are killing us at clearances. if i can see it no doubt opposition scouts can too. Every centre square tap is palmed straight back over his head & bang the opposition get it straight out.

ctacp
curlier than a catoggio pube

 

[rampar]

Agree with Bolt. Milne should have been decked at every opportunity. Murphs tag dealt with at every stoppage.

Plan B should be... if we are not winning the contested ball then smash everyone around the ball. Show some aggression! In any case, if the coach is sitting on the bench then he won't have a good enough view of the game to react or dictate the game in REAL time.

We are being out-coached, the amount of piss easy goals st kilda and the dons got from winning the hard ball, clearing that shitty zone before the small forwards kicked easy goals or creating 1 on 1 contests is SHITTING ME TO TEARS.

 

[Big Red is back]

Can some1 explain to me what our Plan A is? I seriously can't work out what our game plan is after watching us the last few weeks.

Our game plan is simple copied straight from the Pies 2010... press press press press press. Problem is entire competition has moved on.

Ratts and the boys need to go copy another game plan.

The hard press is dead and we are the only side playing it.

 

[Big Sim]

How about man on man for a change?

 

[jackn]

Can some1 explain to me what our Plan A is? I seriously can't work out what our game plan is after watching us the last few weeks.

Kick long to eddie vs 3+ taller opponents in a pocket, then hang back while 2 more opposition come in to help. After they clear our defence, jog back towards their forward line, trying not to get too close to a man. Wait for lachie, jamo or scotland to clear the ball. Whenever a pack forms, stand around it with your hands up waiting for Judd/ mitch to get the ball out to you. Try not to allow yourself to end up at the bottom of the pack.

 

[Gary Wilson's Helmet]

Ratten is the un-canary in the mine... http://footyalmanac.com.au/?p=37819

 

[blue healer]

Kick long to eddie vs 3+ taller opponents in a pocket, then hang back while 2 more opposition come in to help. After they clear our defence, jog back towards their forward line, trying not to get too close to a man. Wait for lachie, jamo or scotland to clear the ball. Whenever a pack forms, stand around it with your hands up waiting for Judd/ mitch to get the ball out to you. Try not to allow yourself to end up at the bottom of the pack.

That's it in a nutshell. I get so frustrated when we jog alongside them as they go into their forward line. Got that way that even my missus yells out "man up" and she's a Swans supporter who knows sfa about the game.

 

[Blue since 72]

dominated the ruck ? - watch hampson in ruck, he ONLY palms the ball behind himself over his shoulder. ALL his ruck taps in the middle are the same thing. thats why other teams are killing us at clearances. if i can see it no doubt opposition scouts can too. Every centre square tap is palmed straight back over his head & bang the opposition get it straight out.

ctacp
curlier than a catoggio pube

So the opposition mids read our ruckmen better than our own mids do?

Perhaps you should be asking why it isn't one of our mids getting that tap if it's so obvious, instead of the other mob.

Our ruckmen, Hammer in particular dominated hitouts last night yet our mids couldn't take advantage of it. Unless our ruckmen are keeping their hitout zones a secret from our mids I'd put the responsibilty of winning the clearance at our mid's feet

Our much vaunted midfield has been anything but that in the last four games and it's not like Judd, Murphy etc don't know what they're doing.

Perhaps our game plan revolved around carrots getting the ball first.

Positional changes aside to change the mix a bit, if plan A isn't working then plan B should be to work harder.

Footy is still a simple game: Get to the ball first, win the contest if there is one and do something useful with the ball.

 

[ESKIE]

Ratten is the un-canary in the mine... http://footyalmanac.com.au/?p=37819

That's great...what gas lol

 

[ESKIE]

our selection for sub was wrong, at the start i couldn't believe ellard was sub he is an inside mid, & what did we need last night? Stupid decision, up there with mclean for the essendon game

We've slumped since the pies game....it was like we were so up for that game and now crashed.

IIRC a couple of years ago thempies belted geelong, hadn't beaten them in ages then slumped...similar situation

I'm gonna buy ratts a canary, see above article

 

[T2B_]

Amazing to think but... Carrots going down basically has torn apart the flow and structure of our midfield.

Now...we ought to be good enough and have the depth to compensate, though we havent been showing it, but it goes to show how awesome Andy was going for us. **** sake

As soon as I saw Ellard was sub I was worried though. Sure he made an awesome sub, but what if he had started I wonder?

 

[mediumsizered]

Why did we keep Kerr on the list when Saad was kicking 8 goals in our 2nds..& he was so clean with skills & innate goal sense

Unfortunately Saad was able to be pre-listed by GWS & he was traded, along with Milera, to the Saints for a pick in the mid-20s. Given we only had 3 picks in the ND & our first pick was obviously slated for Bootsma, we were never a chance of getting Saad. Mind you, with Betts & Garlett coming off 50 & 48 goal seasons respectively, another small forward was probably not considered a priority.

 

[Peete]

Leaving Robbo aside- you have to admit we do have the best looking bunch of midfielders in the comepetiton. Why even our #2 ruckman's nick is Handsome- good lookin enough for 'our Megan' anyway.

I am thinking that our footie department scouts were working only part time for Carlton - their other clients were model agencies and some of our picks ended being confused accordingly.

So maybe Plan A has been list good lookin blokes potential media darlings good for ratings, good for membership drives. Body types required- tall , skiny good lookers - pretty boys , athletic - call 'em what you want.

We want to revolutionaise the way footie is played AND the way footioe players should look.

The way footie should be played is soft and elegant and pretty. We want speed and flare and speed and more flare and speed...we like speed so much 3/4 of our players run really fast calling for the ball - before we even get the ball.

The more pretty the boys - the better. We wanna see our boys at nightclubs wearing nice hair too. We wanna see them on TV talking pretty to those expert commentators- we wanna see them be STARS!

Winning taps and losing ball?

Hey as long as the boys look good running fast - the wrong way doesn't matter baby...

Kicking goals?

Look stupid - it is about the drama of the effort. Far better to kick to a pocket and see a one in ten conversion than kick or a mark of teh year ( even better) to a nasty front of goal situation - you dont want anyone getting hurt - or worse getting 'facialed' or gettin their hair messed up.

We wana see Jeffo and Eddie swooping and kicking over their shoulders and doin all that drama / heroic stuff - set shot success ?....boooooooooooring!

Look bottom line is this - leaeve the hard stuff for other ugly teams, winning Premierships? thats old school Carlton - we are new school Carlton!! - as long as Carlton looks good, plays a pretty game, draws a crowd of fashionistas...the dollars keep coming.

kisses and Hugs to youz all - we don't need no Plan B.