Strategy Play Frampton

Should the club play Frampton

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 19.1%
  • Yes

    Votes: 8 8.5%
  • Hell yeah!

    Votes: 68 72.3%

  • Total voters
    94

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Coobk001

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#15
There's so many around on this forum that are really refusing to accept what we're seeing from Marshall. However the reality is he is a massive liability, he is completely ineffective, rarely creates contests, almost never takes important grabs, rarely commands the ball and just gets beaten and bodied by defenders way too easily. On a really brutal level he also regularly puts in many soft efforts with his laconic approach.

NO ONE doubts the fact we need a key tall in the side, and NO ONE doubts he has a future, but Marshall is not beyond criticism and right now is just frankly not deserving of holding that position based on his current impact.

Marshall is averaging this year:
9 Touches a game
5 effective disposals a game
2.8 marks per game
0.8 contested marks per game
0.5 goals per game

1.7 tackles per game

That's some scarily bad numbers.

Against the Crows he had 7 touches, including 3 clangers and his lack of impact was so obvious we had no choice but to throw Dougal down forward.

One thing has become clear, Marshall wont and can't be a #1 forward. He is a Westhoff style #2 or #3 forward, and to succeed not only does he need to get his confidence and touch going in the SANFL, but he needs a player like Charlie to feed off.

So the question becomes what do we have in the SANFL and we quite obviously have a player who is older, stronger, a better contested mark, and has proven he is in form. Frampton must get a gig next week ahead of Marshall there is no doubt of that. Frampton can and should play the Dixon role that we are so badly missing, but the question for the selectors to answer is can we support Frampton, Westhoff, Ryder & Marshall as key forwards, in the same team, or do we just play Frampton instead of Marshall. Marshall's form should improve with the support of a Frampton, but we may become too slow up forward.

IMO it's Frampton for Marshall, and we back Westy & Ryder in to provide support.
 

Schulzenfest

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#16
There's so many around on this forum that are really refusing to accept what we're seeing from Marshall. However the reality is he is a massive liability, he is completely ineffective, rarely creates contests, almost never takes important grabs, rarely commands the ball and just gets beaten and bodied by defenders way too easily. On a really brutal level he also regularly puts in many soft efforts with his laconic approach.

NO ONE doubts the fact we need a key tall in the side, and NO ONE doubts he has a future, but Marshall is not beyond criticism and right now is just frankly not deserving of holding that position based on his current impact.

Marshall is averaging this year:
9 Touches a game
5 effective disposals a game
2.8 marks per game
0.8 contested marks per game
0.5 goals per game

1.7 tackles per game

That's some scarily bad numbers.

Against the Crows he had 7 touches, including 3 clangers and his lack of impact was so obvious we had no choice but to throw Dougal down forward.

One thing has become clear, Marshall wont and can't be a #1 forward. He is a Westhoff style #2 or #3 forward, and to succeed not only does he need to get his confidence and touch going in the SANFL, but he needs a player like Charlie to feed off.

So the question becomes what do we have in the SANFL and we quite obviously have a player who is older, stronger, a better contested mark, and has proven he is in form. Frampton must get a gig next week ahead of Marshall there is no doubt of that. Frampton can and should play the Dixon role that we are so badly missing, but the question for the selectors to answer is can we support Frampton, Westhoff, Ryder & Marshall as key forwards, in the same team, or do we just play Frampton instead of Marshall. Marshall's form should improve with the support of a Frampton, but we may become too slow up forward.

IMO it's Frampton for Marshall, and we back Westy & Ryder in to provide support.
Summary of this post: "Marshall can't play as the #1 forward, only as the #2. So let's bring in somebody to play as the #1 forward which would allow Marshall to play as the #2, and then immediately drop him".

The current set up absolutely isn't working. But Frampton should be playing alongside Marshall, not instead of. If Marshall continues to stink it up in a proper forward structure, then that's different.
 

*PAF

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#17
There's so many around on this forum that are really refusing to accept what we're seeing from Marshall. However the reality is he is a massive liability, he is completely ineffective, rarely creates contests, almost never takes important grabs, rarely commands the ball and just gets beaten and bodied by defenders way too easily. On a really brutal level he also regularly puts in many soft efforts with his laconic approach.

NO ONE doubts the fact we need a key tall in the side, and NO ONE doubts he has a future, but Marshall is not beyond criticism and right now is just frankly not deserving of holding that position based on his current impact.

Marshall is averaging this year:
9 Touches a game
5 effective disposals a game
2.8 marks per game
0.8 contested marks per game
0.5 goals per game

1.7 tackles per game

That's some scarily bad numbers.

Against the Crows he had 7 touches, including 3 clangers and his lack of impact was so obvious we had no choice but to throw Dougal down forward.

One thing has become clear, Marshall wont and can't be a #1 forward. He is a Westhoff style #2 or #3 forward, and to succeed not only does he need to get his confidence and touch going in the SANFL, but he needs a player like Charlie to feed off.

So the question becomes what do we have in the SANFL and we quite obviously have a player who is older, stronger, a better contested mark, and has proven he is in form. Frampton must get a gig next week ahead of Marshall there is no doubt of that. Frampton can and should play the Dixon role that we are so badly missing, but the question for the selectors to answer is can we support Frampton, Westhoff, Ryder & Marshall as key forwards, in the same team, or do we just play Frampton instead of Marshall. Marshall's form should improve with the support of a Frampton, but we may become too slow up forward.

IMO it's Frampton for Marshall, and we back Westy & Ryder in to provide support.
Only replying to the first part as I think this is the bit that is causing the debate.

No-one is refusing to see what Marshall has not brought to our forward line this year. However apart from round one no one else has brought anything better. Once you
remove the around the ground stuff for both Ryder and Westhoff there's not much left.
Blaming Marshall for our KPF woes is the easy option.

And no I am not saying we should drop Westhoff or Ryder for Frampton.
 

Coobk001

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#18
Summary of this post: "Marshall can't play as the #1 forward, only as the #2. So let's bring in somebody to play as the #1 forward which would allow Marshall to play as the #2, and then immediately drop him".

The current set up absolutely isn't working. But Frampton should be playing alongside Marshall, not instead of. If Marshall continues to stink it up in a proper forward structure, then that's different.
True, but the point is the #2 and #3 forward spots are occupied by Ryder and Westy, and for mine I would stick with them a little longer. But exactly as you say, the question for the selectors is do they put Marshall into the #2 spot even though he is horribly out of form, and just expect he will turn it around instantly?

For mine, send Marshall back, get him back in form and leave Frampton surrounded by experience to give him his best chance to succeed. If/When Marshall hits some solid continuous form then we need to look at how the forward line can structure with him in it.
 

Schulzenfest

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#19
True, but the point is the #2 and #3 forward spots are occupied by Ryder and Westy, and for mine I would stick with them a little longer. But exactly as you say, the question for the selectors is do they put Marshall into the #2 spot even though he is horribly out of form, and just expect he will turn it around instantly?

For mine, send Marshall back, get him back in form and leave Frampton surrounded by experience to give him his best chance to succeed. If/When Marshall hits some solid continuous form then we need to look at how the forward line can structure with him in it.
Aside from Round 1 and last week Westhoff honestly hasn't been much better. He needs to be moved out of the forward line for his own sake and for the sake of the team. Frampton #1, Marshall #2 and Westhoff playing a roaming role puts all three of them in their natural positions. The same positions they'd be playing if Dixon was fit and available to take Frampton's spot in the structure.

But of course our esteemed head coach couldn't give two shits about structure and would prefer to bring in Aidyn Johnson off of a 7 disposal, 0 goal game in the SANFL to 'tag' Rory Laird to 31 disposals.
 

Lawnchair Larry

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#22
Want Ryder to cente half back.
Ladhams into the ruck to replace him.
Forward line: Howard, Frampton, Marshall, Ebert, Rozee, Butters
Drop whoever is necessary to achieve this.
Young forward line.
I don't care; give me some reason to want to go to games.
 
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#23
Only way I reckon we see Frampton and Marshall together in 2019 is if the Hoff is injured.

Marshall was terrible last night - and I'm on the Marshall Maglev. Frampton would give us more of a presence and contest than Marshall. He should, he is older and bigger.

Marshall is 8-10kg's away from being able to do week on week out what we want from him as a KPF.
 

Andre

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#24
True, but the point is the #2 and #3 forward spots are occupied by Ryder and Westy, and for mine I would stick with them a little longer. But exactly as you say, the question for the selectors is do they put Marshall into the #2 spot even though he is horribly out of form, and just expect he will turn it around instantly?

For mine, send Marshall back, get him back in form and leave Frampton surrounded by experience to give him his best chance to succeed. If/When Marshall hits some solid continuous form then we need to look at how the forward line can structure with him in it.
Westhoff should not be included in being called a forward. Our ideal setup is #1 KPF - Dixon/Frampton, #2 KPF - Marshall, #3 KPF - resting ruck.

Westhoff is a tall wingman who allows us to use him to clear defense against an undersized opponent, or force a tall defender onto him allowing us a tall forward on a small (amazingly we can do this, not just be on the wrong end). If as a tall wingman he drifts forward and causes a mismatch, then that's a bonus. Westhoff used this way is a match-winner. Not as one of our listed forwards.
 
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