Strategy Play Frampton

Should the club play Frampton

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 19.8%
  • Yes

    Votes: 7 7.7%
  • Hell yeah!

    Votes: 66 72.5%

  • Total voters
    91

Magus

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Salter, White, Butcher etc etc were all learning too?

Or they just weren't good enough?

I don't want someone learning how to present in the fwd line on the biggest stage. He rightfully copped both barrels from the Commentators on Saturday.
You don't know unless you try and Frampton's form is good enough. Marshall has nothing to do with this conversation and neither does anyone else.
 

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Salter, White, Butcher etc etc were all learning too?

Or they just weren't good enough?

I don't want someone learning how to present in the fwd line on the biggest stage. He rightfully copped both barrels from the Commentators on Saturday.
It took us 66 games to work out Jake Neade was not good enough. I’d be happy if Frampton was given 10% of that to see what he’s got.


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Chrizzt

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Howard has come up through a defence that was regular overloaded with extra players during his ascent to where he is now. Well supported by players who have come through with him.

Half the time Marshall seems to be the loneliest boy in the world, surrounded by enemies. He's definitely taken over the 2018 Jack Watts role of "why is he so consistently up against two or more guys?". Its weird to see a young KPF winning more contested ball than uncontested, but here we are.

Fun fact: In 2019, Port has four players with more contested than uncontested possession

Scott Lycett 71:50
Paddy Ryder 60:29
Todd Marshall 26:25
Aidyn Johnson 8:5

Interesting list, huh
What that list tells me is that Marshall (and Johnson) don't know how (or don't work hard enough) to get involved in the play and get uncontested possessions. Watching the games will show you exactly that.

He rarely presents on leads, I've never seen him double back and offer secondary leads (possibly he's done but I've certainly never seen him do it), he doesn't work to get to the outside of contests, so he doesn't get uncontested touches. Instead he just floats to where other people are and waits for the ball to come to him.
 

PAFC_1870

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What that list tells me is that Marshall (and Johnson) don't know how (or don't work hard enough) to get involved in the play and get uncontested possessions. Watching the games will show you exactly that.

He rarely presents on leads, I've never seen him double back and offer secondary leads (possibly he's done but I've certainly never seen him do it), he doesn't work to get to the outside of contests, so he doesn't get uncontested touches. Instead he just floats to where other people are and waits for the ball to come to him.
This, he doesn't at all work hard enough, if you've got the Hoff as a team mate surely you could atleast look at him for aspiration....
 
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What that list tells me is that Marshall (and Johnson) don't know how (or don't work hard enough) to get involved in the play and get uncontested possessions. Watching the games will show you exactly that.

He rarely presents on leads, I've never seen him double back and offer secondary leads (possibly he's done but I've certainly never seen him do it), he doesn't work to get to the outside of contests, so he doesn't get uncontested touches. Instead he just floats to where other people are and waits for the ball to come to him.
I'm really glad you said that, because it prompted me to go back a couple more years to see who used to hold the honor of more contested than uncontested possession, and its fascinating.

2018
Charlie Dixon 176:95
Paddy Ryder 105:47
Todd Marshall 33:29
Billy Frampton 5:3

2017
Ollie Wines 317:298
Paddy Ryder 208:81
Charlie Dixon 201:146
Jackson Trengove 135:112
Brett Eddy 12:10

2016
Ollie Wines 302:270
Robbie Gray 258:256
Jackson Trengove 183:134
Charlie Dixon 127:81
Matthew Lobbe 39:27
Jay Schulz 37:32

2015
Robbie Gray 297:271
Paddy Ryder 121:88
Matthew Lobbe 80:65
Aaron Young 77:68
Brendon Ah Chee 74:71
Jarrad Redden 5:4


So, uh....the criticism you levelled at Marshall I guess should be levelled at every KPF we've tried since 2015? :)
 
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Wet weather Sunday greatly reduces Frampton's chances of a call up, Ken indicated this on radio.
That's why I have been saying Frampton for Marshall. I am a big Marshall fan, but Billy deserves a go, Todd is down on confidence and we know Ken wont drop Hoff.
 

Andre

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Wet weather Sunday greatly reduces Frampton's chances of a call up, Ken indicated this on radio.
For Ken it gives him an excuse to keep us a tall short. If it was fine, it’d be a fine fast deck makes it hard. Stubborn prick just won’t play Marshall and Frampton.
 

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For Ken it gives him an excuse to keep us a tall short. If it was fine, it’d be a fine fast deck makes it hard. Stubborn prick just won’t play Marshall and Frampton.
You don't see Sydney drop Franklin when it's wet and Ken didn't drop Dixon when it's wet, so that is a **** poor excuse not to play him, Marshall still plays in the wet.
 
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What that list tells me is that Marshall (and Johnson) don't know how (or don't work hard enough) to get involved in the play and get uncontested possessions. Watching the games will show you exactly that.

He rarely presents on leads, I've never seen him double back and offer secondary leads (possibly he's done but I've certainly never seen him do it), he doesn't work to get to the outside of contests, so he doesn't get uncontested touches. Instead he just floats to where other people are and waits for the ball to come to him.
Maybe just maybe he hasn’t been taught how to play as a forward.
 
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I've never heard him once say that our system is to bomb the ball in to outnumbered situations that the opposition can exploit.

He might say that our system is designed around repeat entries, but he's also said on many occasions that the players have to change the angle of entry and present different looks for the opposition to deal with.

Johnson enables us to keep the ball locked inside 50 and create those different looks. How many times did we work the ball around the 50 meter arc quickly and change the angle? Never. Marshall tried doing something like it once to Broadbent but he ****** up the kick.
Johnson did not keep the ball in. We looked to play a zone and he chased tail. It was terrible.
 
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Wet weather Sunday greatly reduces Frampton's chances of a call up, Ken indicated this on radio.
Well sort of but not really. Hedges a lot of bets. I think he indicated that because of the wet weather, you can’t add a tall as in Billy, but did say that he could replace a ruckman that is not performing or a tall forward not performing, was more saying needing a forward to impact the game. So if Frampton is to come in, my take is, because of the weather, in will be to replace a ruckman or replace a forward, but not in addition to.
 

Enviable Tradition

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You don't see Sydney drop Franklin when it's wet and Ken didn't drop Dixon when it's wet, so that is a **** poor excuse not to play him, Marshall still plays in the wet.
Yeah. Last thing you want in the wet is a tall target to kick long to.

Much better to handball the slippery ball round and round in circles til you turn it over.


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Chrizzt

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I'm really glad you said that, because it prompted me to go back a couple more years to see who used to hold the honor of more contested than uncontested possession, and its fascinating.

2018
Charlie Dixon 176:95
Paddy Ryder 105:47
Todd Marshall 33:29
Billy Frampton 5:3

2017
Ollie Wines 317:298
Paddy Ryder 208:81
Charlie Dixon 201:146
Jackson Trengove 135:112
Brett Eddy 12:10

2016
Ollie Wines 302:270
Robbie Gray 258:256
Jackson Trengove 183:134
Charlie Dixon 127:81
Matthew Lobbe 39:27
Jay Schulz 37:32

2015
Robbie Gray 297:271
Paddy Ryder 121:88
Matthew Lobbe 80:65
Aaron Young 77:68
Brendon Ah Chee 74:71
Jarrad Redden 5:4


So, uh....the criticism you levelled at Marshall I guess should be levelled at every KPF we've tried since 2015? :)
All those dozens of KPFs we've tried up forward? Trengove and Eddy weren't good enough up forward. So that leaves Dixon and Schulz. Schulz's last good year was 2015, a year in which he had more uncontested than contested possessions (79:150).

Dixon is something of an outlier as his strength is contested situations, but the knock on him has always been that he relies too much on sitting back and waiting for the ball to come to him, then trying to wrestle his opponent(s) rather than get separation on them by leading at the ball carrier. But as stated, the difference for Dixon is that he has the size, strength and aggression to play that contested style.

I'll also note that Butcher in 15/16 and Howard in '16 (when he was played mostly as a forward) had more uncontested possessions than contested possessions.

So, uh....the criticism isn't levelled at every KPF since 2015. :)
 
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