Analysis Play Todd Marshall...

TeeKray

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the question is why wasnt this done like 4 matches ago when we played WC, instead we just kept kicking it to him, another Hinkley failure
We actually did it with Johnson last time quite effectively, which is another point Cummings made.

Problem was that he went up the other end and slotted the match winner after the siren. :$
 

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awesomedal14

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I’m really not a huge fan of Marshall, but everyone seems to be buzzing about him, so I’ll defer.
I prefer forwards built more like Dixon than Westhoff.
Fair enough, but Marshall is also only 20 years of age in his 3rd season of AFL football having played 13 games. His career has been interrupted by injury and personal trauma, which tied along with the typical longer development time for a KPF has stunted his growth. He's shown some really promising signs and a **** load of potential, but we will need to be patient and go along with the growing pains until he becomes that dominant KPF you're after.
 

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Just watched FootyWA. Scotty Cummings showed about 5-6 passages of play where Marshall basically stopped McGovern getting to a marking contest by engaging him with bodywork so that he couldn't get to the fall of the ball in time. The role he played on Friday should not be understated at all.
I noticed that too. I watch young marshall very closely because I firmly believe we are a decent chf short of being a top 4 team. After Richmond it was glaringly obvious that we needed someone up forward to compete, prevent intercept marks, bring the ball to ground & hold it in. And be dangerous enough in their own right that their direct opponent can't zone off them & influence other contests. None of those are a stat really. But Marshall did all those things brilliantly. I am always optimistic when he plays. Our forward line looks dynamic. He will tear a game apart soon & kick 5.
There is a reason why the vics salivate over Carey, brown etc, a good chf can lift a mid table team to being a contender.
It's also the delivery. Our mids can't just bomb it long every time, it's too predictable & it's not been working.
 

Chrizzt

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I prefer forwards that can actually mark and kick more like Westhoff/Marshall than Dixon.
We have this negative perception of Dixon's marking because he spills some obvious opportunities, but we only see it as much because he keeps making it to marking contests. Marshall doesn't do that.

For me, by far the most disappointing aspect of Marshall so far is his complete lack of aerial presence. Doesn't present on leads, is weak in one on one contests, doesn't commit to marking in a pack. I'd go so far as to say he's been rather insipid in terms of marking.

People got all up in arms about Hinkley's comment regarding Marshall as being a small forward, but that's all that he's shown so far at AFL level.
 

MitchIn3D

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Having a close look at Marshall’s game just to highlight his importance to those who might not be 100% sure.

First quarter - Marshall was involved in almost every passage of play that led to a score in the first. He might not have racked up a disposal for every effort, but he was always there harrassing and effecting the contest.

Nice quick hands in some passages when he worked up the ground, a couple of good contests when he brought the ball down to advantage. Late in the quarter he even dragged his defender (Schofield?) under the ball, which led to another contested ground ball which we won. Only thing he did wrong was kick a point after a strong lead up mark. A goal there would have topped off a fantastic quarter for a KPF, let alone one who’s played 13 games.

Second quarter - officially Marshall had 6 disposals at half time. Seems to be having a quiet game, and you’d think so after this quarter, not on the ground for large chunks of time due to wet weather, but when he’s on the ground he neutralises 6 contests inside 50. 1 great tackle to lock the ball in, 2 dropped marks in perfect position for the rover, 2 50/50 contests where he spoiled the ball for a throw in and a free kick which he slotted. Barely on the ground, barely sees the ball, every time he was near it Port were a chance to score. Can’t ask more than that in the wet.

Third Quarter - on fire in the first five minutes, involved in a couple of passages where we should have scored, including one where he was involved on the wing, ran to receive and then ran to cover in the forward line where we scored a ball up. Took a good strong contested mark on the wing that wasn’t paid because of reasons. Then again in the forward line later in the term he brought another 2 marking contests to ground, one into Boaks lap again and another ball up. Seriously, every time the balls gone to Marshall inside 50 so far he’s won a stoppage or has given our crumbers every chance to score. Just imagine if he’d marked a couple!

Fourth Quarter - first inside 50, mark to Marshall, missed near left. Ball gets locked in, he’s involved in the next three contests, including one where he holds the ball in surrounded by 4 Eagles to allow help to arrive. More relentless Port pressure and Marshall almost intercepts a McGovern kick in the pocket, tips it and flicks it to Westhoff who scuffs the shot on goal. All this in the first 5 mins of the quarter. Follows up with two strong lead up efforts, one a good mark right half forward to set up SPP who’s being held 20 metres out, another point, then at right half back to spoil a certain intercept mark on the 50, sends it for a throw in. Then a minute later he’s at right half forward halving another aerial contest for a throw in. Marshall’s everywhere in the first 10 of the last. Took a break in the last 10 though, didn’t see to much to end the game.

Officially ends the game with 10 touches, three marks and 1 goal 2, but what he offers around the ground without getting a disposal is amazing. Don’t forget, I didn’t mention the blocking off the ball that he did on McGovern all night or his running patterns, I could only comment on what the replay will show me. I can say, though, that he did all of this against two mammoth defenders - McGovern and Schofield are no slouches. When Marshall gets a few more kilos on him and starts marking more that he doesn’t, he’s gonna win a bloody Coleman Medal.

This kid is a freak.
 

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We aren't 11-2 we are 11-1-1, and he didn't play for much more than a quarter in the loss.

To those mentioning other teams failing and succeeding with/without tall forwards, it's about having a game plan and structure that works together.

The biggest issue port has had over the past 4 years is that we have had a game plan which only works with talls, by kicking long, markable balls, but have played it with smalls like s Gray and neade. If we were chaos balling or had a chipping game plan to guys like that it wouldn't be nearly as bad.
To play without talks you need exceptional kicking skills and composure to hit the small targets. Neither of which we have ever had.

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Enviable Tradition

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We have this negative perception of Dixon's marking because he spills some obvious opportunities, but we only see it as much because he keeps making it to marking contests. Marshall doesn't do that.

For me, by far the most disappointing aspect of Marshall so far is his complete lack of aerial presence. Doesn't present on leads, is weak in one on one contests, doesn't commit to marking in a pack. I'd go so far as to say he's been rather insipid in terms of marking.

People got all up in arms about Hinkley's comment regarding Marshall as being a small forward, but that's all that he's shown so far at AFL level.
Their are glimmers though, like that contested grab out in front of McGovern.

That's all you can expect from such a young KPF with such an interrupted development.

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No ****. Barring injury or deadset dreadful form, sit him in that forward line until he reaches 50 odd, then people can judge.
i dont like giving players games just for the sake of it, but we dont have dixon so play Todd, Todd's greatest assets are his below knees ball work, his forward nous and disposal, if he wants to be really good he has to work harder till he's getting 10 disposals a match purely from burning off his opponent and he should get another 10 from general play, if he's getting 20 disposals a match then he should be having 4 or 5 shots on goal a game.

im not sure what his ceiling is but i think Jay Schulz is a good comparison
 

El_Scorcho

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i dont like giving players games just for the sake of it, but we dont have dixon so play Todd, Todd's greatest assets are his below knees ball work, his forward nous and disposal, if he wants to be really good he has to work harder till he's getting 10 disposals a match purely from burning off his opponent and he should get another 10 from general play, if he's getting 20 disposals a match then he should be having 4 or 5 shots on goal a game.

im not sure what his ceiling is but i think Jay Schulz is a good comparison
While this is definitely the sort of football Marshall should be aiming for, how many 20yo key forwards are getting 20 touches and having 5 shots on goal a game?

How many are getting 15 touches and averaging 3 shots a game?

They just don't exist, and setting that sort of standard for him is completely unrealistic. We need to persist with him through the quieter games while he gains experience and plays his role.

He's potentially a much more complete footballer than Schulz, but we need to back him in until he's properly out of form. We can't be dropping him after 1 down game when he was coming off of a concussion and it rained the entire 2nd half.

Edit: I know you're calling for us to play Marshall so this isn't completely aimed at you, more the general high expectations of what a 20yo KPF should be achieving.
 

FallingLiefs

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Marshall has huge holes in his game and is a true small forward in anything but height. He has so much left to go and really needs to start being a marking threat... uncontested at least to really be start making his way in the AFL.

needs to stay in the team but he is a long way off where he needs to get to, hopefully he plays every game to get him there as quick as possible.
 

TheFVK

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i dont like giving players games just for the sake of it, but we dont have dixon so play Todd, Todd's greatest assets are his below knees ball work, his forward nous and disposal, if he wants to be really good he has to work harder till he's getting 10 disposals a match purely from burning off his opponent and he should get another 10 from general play, if he's getting 20 disposals a match then he should be having 4 or 5 shots on goal a game.

im not sure what his ceiling is but i think Jay Schulz is a good comparison
We would not be just giving him games for the sake of it, we are playing our most winningest player who has a demonstrable impact on team performance AND developing our most promising key position prospect since Warren G.

Early call but even in his present form I already like him more than Dixon, his quick hands and deft taps create more scoring chains, he suits our play on at all cost style, our players don't get lazy just bombing it long to a known gorilla AND he's a better finisher.
 

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He's 20 now, 13 games in. Has loads of talent other talls don't have. Is one of the best field kicks in the team and is usually a reliable shot on goal. He does play like a small forward, but that's brilliant with all the pressure acts and one percenters he brings. It would be great if he could impose himself more. But if we're going to focus on that can we apply it to Westhoff as well? Where's he been since round 1?

If he's a tall Jake Neade, then brilliant. Give me that any day than a Jake Neade or Sam Gray competing against two tall defenders. If tall Jake Neade causes a kpd to be accountable and not double up Justin Westhoff than great. If tall Jake Neade applies pressure and prevents kpd drop offs and intercept marking even better. Tall Jake Neade does this, little Jake Neade tried but couldn't.
 
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We actually did it with Johnson last time quite effectively, which is another point Cummings made.

Problem was that he went up the other end and slotted the match winner after the siren. :$
At least we worked out a good strategy to combat that problem.

Lead them by 50 points late in the last quarter. ;)
 
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And we needed to, because they still managed to kick another goal after the siren the bastards.
They're like Freddy Krueger. They haunt our nightmares and even when we think we've killed them, the bastards won't die!
 
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