Player comparison thread

[Dunn - Well Done]

What are peoples thoughts on Brent Harvey vs Pavlich.

Is Harvey worth having from the get go or would it be better to go with Pavlich as your top tier forward. Im a little worried that Pavlich may not be as durable in 2009 as compared to what he has been up until late last season.

Can you all see Harvey scoring 90-95 average this year?

Yeah you may be onto something here Zmithy, regarding Pavlich.

If anyone needs an extra bit of money i would IMO downgrade Pav to a player who is still a keeper but just not of premium high end quality. Pavlich has quite a few unknowns to his game of 09.

These Unknowns/changes are:
- Role change
- fitness/durability concerns about knee
- first 6 games (who he plays)

I have done a little bit of research on Pav not much though.

His role change IMO, is overrated i dont think hell play much midfield if any more than last year.
1) they dont have the power forwards to back him up
2) they say their next best tall forward Tarrant is playing acroos HBF or wing
3) They need to develop their midfield youth

First 6 games, he plays
WBD - Morris (IIRC plays him pretty well)
Ess - Fletcher/Ryder (Usually chops up against the dons, captaincy for round 2 for me is Pav)
Adel - Rutten (2nd or 3rd best Key back in comp, also Bock couold play him very well aswell)
STK - Hudgton/fisher (Although STK dont have an awesome CHB or FB they could and IIRC have done ok against Pav, Fisher could play on him very well as could MAX)
Syd - C.Bolton (They also dont have great FB or CHB but they are defensivly very sound as we know, also C.Bolton plays him quite well IIRC)
WCE - D.Glass (best or 2nd best FB in comp, he does quite well against Pav although i think i have seen him play more midfield because of Glass when they play against eachother)

Summary
Im only happy with 1 team he plays in the first 6 rounds, this could mean that his price may drop early. His injury/durability and supposed role change is also another unknown and by not starting him you could both get to see where he is at and what Harvey is wanting to do with him.



My next step is to see what he avgs against these opposing sides in first 6 rounds and see if he is a worthwhile selection. He is in my side at current but i might wait off if i feel is best.

These are the post that are needed monkeyshine and some that i do. When people argue i am wrong i argue my case and nothing more unless you dont post anything insightful and simply come on here to negate others.

 

[Cruiser23]

Yeah you may be onto something here Zmithy, regarding Pavlich.

If anyone needs an extra bit of money i would IMO downgrade Pav to a player who is still a keeper but just not of premium high end quality. Pavlich has quite a few unknowns to his game of 09.

These Unknowns/changes are:
- Role change
- fitness/durability concerns about knee
- first 6 games (who he plays)

I have done a little bit of research on Pav not much though.

His role change IMO, is overrated i dont think hell play much midfield if any more than last year.
1) they dont have the power forwards to back him up
2) they say their next best tall forward Tarrant is playing acroos HBF or wing
3) They need to develop their midfield youth

First 6 games, he plays
WBD - Morris (IIRC plays him pretty well)
Ess - Fletcher/Ryder (Usually chops up against the dons, captaincy for round 2 for me is Pav)
Adel - Rutten (2nd or 3rd best Key back in comp, also Bock couold play him very well aswell)
STK - Hudgton/fisher (Although STK dont have an awesome CHB or FB they could and IIRC have done ok against Pav, Fisher could play on him very well as could MAX)
Syd - C.Bolton (They also dont have great FB or CHB but they are defensivly very sound as we know, also C.Bolton plays him quite well IIRC)
WCE - D.Glass (best or 2nd best FB in comp, he does quite well against Pav although i think i have seen him play more midfield because of Glass when they play against eachother)

Summary
Im only happy with 1 team he plays in the first 6 rounds, this could mean that his price may drop early. His injury/durability and supposed role change is also another unknown and by not starting him you could both get to see where he is at and what Harvey is wanting to do with him.



My next step is to see what he avgs against these opposing sides in first 6 rounds and see if he is a worthwhile selection. He is in my side at current but i might wait off if i feel is best.

These are the post that are needed monkeyshine and some that i do. When people argue i am wrong i argue my case and nothing more unless you dont post anything insightful and simply come on here to negate others.

Mate you didn't need to add that last bit. Just worry about yourself, that was a very informative post, keep posting stuff like that and you'll get much more respect around here.

I also agree that Pav has a few more issues than he did at the start of each other year. I believe he is a little slimmer than previous years so i think his midfield time may increase a little more but he is so effective up forward that i can't see Harvey cutting that out of his game. To me there are a few too many unknowns with regards to Pavlich and many other top line forwards. At this stage i'm willing to risk not having Pav. I just want to see how Harvey plays him for the first half dozen games, then i'll assess whether he is worth trading in.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

Mate you didn't need to add that last bit. Just worry about yourself, that was a very informative post, keep posting stuff like that and you'll get much more respect around here.

I also agree that Pav has a few more issues than he did at the start of each other year. I believe he is a little slimmer than previous years so i think his midfield time may increase a little more but he is so effective up forward that i can't see Harvey cutting that out of his game. To me there are a few too many unknowns with regards to Pavlich and many other top line forwards. At this stage i'm willing to risk not having Pav. I just want to see how Harvey plays him for the first half dozen games, then i'll assess whether he is worth trading in.

Your happy to see him play against 5 formidable backmen in the first 6 rounds aswell. Than bring him in after WCE game and he plays carlton (110+) thankyou very much. Also plays hawthorn the week after that another 110+.

I may consider this very much now. Just who to bring in, in which i can get some money and still a quality player ?? SJ, Harvey off the top of my head.

back to the drawing board

 

[Cartman121]

Harvey is a very underrated DT'eamer; mainly due to the fact he has been a MID the past couple seasons. Harvey is super durable and super consistent. Some of the key things you look for in your premiums. He is guaranteed to average approx. 95ppg just about every season. NM don't have alot of 'superstars' to speak of so Harvey is just let loose to do what he likes. Can easily shake a tag and go up forward to kick a couple of goals. One of the top premier FWD's this season IMO, will be a unique premium choice as well. Safe and reliable is B.Harvey.

 

[Longy13]

Hi guys,

Toying with the idea of downgrading Simmonds to H Mac for the extra cash but not sure if it's worth it. What would you prefer:

Simmonds + Masten
or
H Mac + Van Berlo

also

Pav + Lockyer
or
B Harvey + Enright


Thanks!

 

[chadleverington]

Hi guys,

Toying with the idea of downgrading Simmonds to H Mac for the extra cash but not sure if it's worth it. What would you prefer:

Simmonds + Masten
or
H Mac + Van Berlo

also

Pav + Lockyer
or
B Harvey + Enright


Thanks!

I have B Harvey + Enright so i think you should go with Pav and Lockyer

 

[jjcs]

These are the post that are needed monkeyshine and some that i do. When people argue i am wrong i argue my case and nothing more unless you dont post anything insightful and simply come on here to negate others.

I love it how DWD can't even make a useful post without adding something to make himself look like an idiot. Makes life so much more entertaining!

 

[samwise]

STK - Hudgton/fisher (Although STK dont have an awesome CHB or FB they could and IIRC have done ok against Pav, Fisher could play on him very well as could MAX)

pretty sure hudghton is an amazing full back

 

[dzeRnumbrd]

These Unknowns/changes are:
- Role change
- fitness/durability concerns about knee
- first 6 games (who he plays)

Good post

My comments

Re: Role change

Role change does happen = probably additional points
Role change doesn't happen = probably same points
Not really a negative outcome there for Pav.

Harvey = no role change = probably same points
No potential positive outcome there for Harvey.

Therefore, Pavlich > Harvey in the role change criteria

Re: Trading him in later

He is very consistent which makes it hard to pick him up for cheap. Someone like Buddy would be better to target in this way.
Harvey also super consistent.

Pavlich = Harvey

Re: Injury

I'm not so sure he has lost any durability. He has personal training regime (which he doesn't give away anything about) which he gives credit for his durablity. Saw him talking about it on an interview on TV.

I reckon he'll play all the games next year - and as Freo has been written off this year they'll probably be near making the finals

Pavlich < Harvey
(very marginal I think)

Re: First 6 games causing price drop

2008 would have given: 97,103,51,109,114,88 (first games taken)
94 avg in first 6 versus a pricing for a 99 avg
Not really going to be a price shattering drop.

I like Pav + Harv both - it is nice to be spoilt for choice

These are the post that are needed monkeyshine and some that i do. When people argue i am wrong i argue my case and nothing more unless you dont post anything insightful and simply come on here to negate others.

Good post until this. Chill.

 

[chadleverington]

Good post

My comments

Re: Role change

Role change does happen = probably additional points
Role change doesn't happen = probably same points
Not really a negative outcome there for Pav.

What about the non point factor? Is there an increased risk to his durability? Will more midfield time compound his knee soreness?

Personally i am leaning to Deledio and B Harvery in forward line to be premiums. Hopfully pick up Franklin,Pav and the Voldt cheaper later on.

 

[Crazy22]

Is there any reason why nobody has really considered embley for a backline premium...

averaged 94 last year and played 21 games; avg 80+ for last 6 seasons.

 

[Zmithy]

From what i have been hearing, his knee soreness is still around and is still hampering him a little. Being as consistent as he is, his value might not drop that much meaning you will still be paying top dollar for him if you trade him in later. I think it might be better to see how he goes over the first half a dozen rounds to see how he goes with the knee. The last thing you want is for him to be scoring you 0.

I think Harvey is a safe bet at the moment. The only thing that worries me is his age. Yes he has hardly missed a game over the past few years and has scored extremely well in that time, but surely as he gets older the body will start to catch up with him an injuries may start to occur. Am i worrying about something over nothing? Am i looking at finding a reason not to pick him? Im not sure. Its just a thought. I hope he does play every game. I guess im just worried about when his good run with injuries will come to an end.

Im sorry for not being overly clear with what i have said.

 

[Zmithy]

Is there any reason why nobody has really considered embley for a backline premium...

averaged 94 last year and played 21 games; avg 80+ for last 6 seasons.

2008 was the highest number of games he has ever played out of the 22 rounds. Im not sold on his durability. Im not going to pay that much money for someone i think who will be out injured so much. Yes he played 21 last year, but i think it was a one off.

 

[dzeRnumbrd]

What about the non point factor? Is there an increased risk to his durability? Will more midfield time compound his knee soreness?

Personally i am leaning to Deledio and B Harvery in forward line to be premiums. Hopfully pick up Franklin,Pav and the Voldt cheaper later on.

Freo fanboys can correct me, but apparently it was only a jarred knee (impact injury rather than a knee deterioration due to age), so --- and I don't know for sure here --- I think it would have had enough time to repair itself for this season.

21,22,22,22,22,22,22,19,??

No one knows really, we're all just making our best guess.

So with that sequence of numbers and assuming a repaired knee, my guess is 22.

It'll be interesting whatever happens

I don't think you can go that wrong with Harvey/Deledio either, seems a good combo to me - I like all of Harvs/Lids/Pav

The only reason I'm leaning to Pav/Deledio because of potential "Richo-style" upside in Pav.

If it doesn't evenuate I still end up with a Harvey-like super-consistent gun forward.

That being said, I haven't decided 100%... NAB cup games will sway me.

 

[johncocksasuperstar]

So with all the talk surrounding Harvey and Pav, what about the other premium forwards.
IMO the top forwards I am looking at starting with are:

Pav - possible knee injury
Harvey - age?
Riewoldt - hampered preseason
Deledio
Franklin - same as roo?

So the safest 2 are looking to be Deledio and Boomer. Any info on Riewoldt and Franklin, I've just heard a few remarks that they should be right for Rd 1 but may not be 100%

Also Franklin is one you should be able to get cheaper due to his inconsistency and Riewoldt tends to start seasons slowly.

I'm thinking of starting with 3 gun forwards and am currently leaning towards Pav, Boomer and one of Riewoldt/Deledio.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

Good post

My comments

Re: Role change

Role change does happen = probably additional points
Role change doesn't happen = probably same points
Not really a negative outcome there for Pav.

Harvey = no role change = probably same points
No potential positive outcome there for Harvey.

Therefore, Pavlich > Harvey in the role change criteria

Re: Trading him in later

He is very consistent which makes it hard to pick him up for cheap. Someone like Buddy would be better to target in this way.
Harvey also super consistent.

Pavlich = Harvey

Re: Injury

I'm not so sure he has lost any durability. He has personal training regime (which he doesn't give away anything about) which he gives credit for his durablity. Saw him talking about it on an interview on TV.

I reckon he'll play all the games next year - and as Freo has been written off this year they'll probably be near making the finals

Pavlich < Harvey
(very marginal I think)

Re: First 6 games causing price drop

2008 would have given: 97,103,51,109,114,88 (first games taken)
94 avg in first 6 versus a pricing for a 99 avg
Not really going to be a price shattering drop.

I like Pav + Harv both - it is nice to be spoilt for choice

Good post until this. Chill.

Their could quite easily be a negative effect if he plays midfield. Consider all dont be bias or disregard something like that.

Yes he is very consistant player but he has a tough start which i have brang up in the other post. This could cause some price drop.

A 94 avg would suprisingly give him a price drop and am unsure about those figures. They arnt very deep at all. I have gone into more detail and found his points avg against those sides he plays in opening 6 rounds for the past 2 years

vs
WBD - 93.5
ESS - 128 (captain option)
ADEL - 83.33
WCE - 82.25
SYD - 92
STK - 94.25

Which gives him a 95 avg, however take the bomber game away its only at 89. So he must perform against the dons and has had very low scores against all those sides. WBD (90 in 07), ESS (103 in 08), Adel (51/60 in 08/07), WCE (77 in 07), Syd (70 in 07), STK (70 in 08)

This shows his start and due to the rolling average/magic number he could lose some substantial money if he can only average 94/95 in his first 6 games.

Go into further detail with your research this will help you more in the future. Not having a go out you at all. You responded with a detailed post but you have to look for more numbers otherwise the research can become bias or sample error can occur.

I could be wrong as well with the price, maybe a 54D or someone could clarify that, would pavlich avg 94 over first 6 rounds or with the scores i gave cause him to lose good amount of price?? Use these numbers

GREATLY APPRECIATED I HAVE NO IDEA

 

[jjcs]

Their could quite easily be a negative effect if he plays midfield. Consider all dont be bias or disregard something like that.

Yes he is very consistant player but he has a tough start which i have brang up in the other post. This could cause some price drop.

A 94 avg would suprisingly give him a price drop and am unsure about those figures. They arnt very deep at all. I have gone into more detail and found his points avg against those sides he plays in opening 6 rounds for the past 2 years

vs
WBD - 93.5
ESS - 128 (captain option)
ADEL - 83.33
WCE - 82.25
SYD - 92
STK - 94.25

Which gives him a 95 avg, however take the bomber game away its only at 89. So he must perform against the dons and has had very low scores against all those sides. WBD (90 in 07), ESS (103 in 08), Adel (51/60 in 08/07), WCE (77 in 07), Syd (70 in 07), STK (70 in 08)

This shows his start and due to the rolling average/magic number he could lose some substantial money if he can only average 94/95 in his first 6 games.

Go into further detail with your research this will help you more in the future. Not having a go out you at all. You responded with a detailed post but you have to look for more numbers otherwise the research can become bias or sample error can occur.

I could be wrong as well with the price, maybe a 54D or someone could clarify that, would pavlich avg 94 over first 6 rounds or with the scores i gave cause him to lose good amount of price?? Use these numbers

GREATLY APPRECIATED I HAVE NO IDEA

Junior, here's a tip for you. Will serve you well in general.

Read what you write at least once. I can understand if you have no grasp of English, or grammar (which you don't). Some of us aren't that educated. But when you make up words & non-sensical sentences you're just taking the piss.

And don't tell people what to do. They don't need some whiny kid telling them what they "have" to do.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

Junior, here's a tip for you. Will serve you well in general.

Read what you write at least once. I can understand if you have no grasp of English, or grammar (which you don't). Some of us aren't that educated. But when you make up words & non-sensical sentences you're just taking the piss.

And don't tell people what to do. They don't need some whiny kid telling them what they "have" to do.

Im unsure what your getting at. I didnt make up any words, did i ?? which ones ??

I was only trying to help the poster with DT in the future he will only be better for it. I try and make the poster think more about what they have said or researched.

I hope you realised i was commenting on his post and sentences which i highlighted red !!

 

[Jay-Z]

So with all the talk surrounding Harvey and Pav, what about the other premium forwards.
IMO the top forwards I am looking at starting with are:

Pav - possible knee injury
Harvey - age?
Riewoldt - hampered preseason
Deledio
Franklin - same as roo?

So the safest 2 are looking to be Deledio and Boomer. Any info on Riewoldt and Franklin, I've just heard a few remarks that they should be right for Rd 1 but may not be 100%

Also Franklin is one you should be able to get cheaper due to his inconsistency and Riewoldt tends to start seasons slowly.

I'm thinking of starting with 3 gun forwards and am currently leaning towards Pav, Boomer and one of Riewoldt/Deledio.

With Pav, Riewoldt and Buddy all having injury concerns it comes down to Deledio and one of Harvey or Richo for me. I'm leaning towards Harvey atm because he is a bit more of a safe bet but Richo does have a habit of pulling out a few massive scores (140-150+) which makes him tempting

 

[Chris25]

Freo fanboys can correct me, but apparently it was only a jarred knee (impact injury rather than a knee deterioration due to age), so --- and I don't know for sure here --- I think it would have had enough time to repair itself for this season.

21,22,22,22,22,22,22,19,??

I believe it was essentially an impact injury. More than likely due to him being a key forward in size, but running around like a midfielder. There is only so long somebody his size, could play in the midfield for without succumbing to some sort or soreness. But Pavlich has noticeably trimmed down this season, and looks very lean.

So I really have no idea where this worry with Pavlich over injury has come from. He didn't miss a game for 6 years, and then he missed 3 with a knee problem. And now injury is a worry?

Don't read so much into everything, Pavlich is one of the best DT'ers in the AFL and he'll still be one this year.

 

[LemmingMaster]

I'd like to know how. Kornes avg 98 last year, which in my opinion was a bad year after 105 and 107. but to make things easy i'll give him an avg of 100, and hasleby if he's fit (and im lucky) to avg 80-90.

So if Hasleby is fit and if you're lucky then it is almost even. What happens if he is not fit and not lucky?

I guess I just don't like those two big IF's with Hasleby, hence why I thought it was slightly more one sided.

Basically you've picked two players which I highly rate and put them against one player I highly rate and another player which has a heap of question marks against his name, Role? fitness? and scoring potential.

EDIT: Also add the fact that Van Berlo and Gibbs would be selected as keepers, hence saving you a trade. I know for sure which combination I would select. As for people mentioning the difference in price, unless I know what you plan to do with the extra 70k, how can you bring price into the equation? To me, that extra money is sitting in the bank, so I still would pick the more expensive option.

 

[bombers own]

Just wondering what would u rather...

Roughead+Tarrant+rookie price mid
or
Higgins+Riewoldt/(J.Brown+50k)+draftee price mid

 

[Decipher]

Some Advice

Hodge, Ottens, Alwyn Davey
vs
Malceski, Cox, Alwyn Davey
vs
Malceski, Ottens, Pavlich

What are peoples thoughts?

 

[sherrin_footy]

Some Advice

Hodge, Ottens, Alwyn Davey
vs
Malceski, Cox, Alwyn Davey
vs
Malceski, Ottens, Pavlich

What are peoples thoughts?

Malceski, Ottens, Pavlich

no brainer.

 

[force65]

Cox and adcock vs Simmonds and mackie

what do ppl think about adcock?