Roast Player development

[Scodog10]

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I do believe he used the words “hardly any” as opposed to “no players” or did I miss something there?

 

[Jasper84]

I do believe he used the words “hardly any” as opposed to “no players” or did I miss something there?

I was going to add pictures of Treloar, Adams, Elliott, Howe, Maynard, Crisp, WHE, Langdon, Dunn, Phillips and Cox but it seemed excessive.

 

[Scodog10]

I was going to add pictures of Treloar, Adams, Elliott, Howe, Maynard, Crisp, WHE, Langdon, Dunn, Phillips and Cox but it seemed excessive.

Would it though? I imagine he’d just respond with images of Ramsay, Kennedy, Clarke, Young, Russell, Karnezis, Richmond, Gault, Paine and Marsh.

I take it by the thread of your POV that you’ve been happy with our development of players? Whilst I disagree I can appreciate you have a different POV, but at the same time I’d ask if you’re happy with development why have the results not shown.

Has it all been talent ID or high performance?..

 

[jackcass]

Just out of interest, who on here actually works in the motivational sphere?

 

[CFC2010]

Would it though? I imagine he’d just respond with images of Ramsay, Kennedy, Clarke, Young, Russell, Karnezis, Richmond, Gault, Paine and Marsh.

I take it by the thread of your POV that you’ve been happy with our development of players? Whilst I disagree I can appreciate you have a different POV, but at the same time I’d ask if you’re happy with development why have the results not shown.

Has it all been talent ID or high performance?..

You forgot one in your list above..............wasted talent IMO

 

[Jasper84]

Would it though? I imagine he’d just respond with images of Ramsay, Kennedy, Clarke, Young, Russell, Karnezis, Richmond, Gault, Paine and Marsh.

I take it by the thread of your POV that you’ve been happy with our development of players? The results certainly don’t indicate that it’s been overly successful...

My POV is a balanced one. Many players haven't developed well but that doesn't mean that I am going to completely discount the ones who have. I'm not a club sycophant or a hater and don't believe that anyone should be labelled as such. And it's pretty obvious that our current lack of success can be attributed to more factors than just player development.

 

[Maggie5]

Made me check on who our development coaches are and I could only find one - Gotch who started last year. Rivers was another one until he was appointed coach of VFL.
http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/season/coaches
Very strange given the number of young players we have on our list.

 

[Scodog10]

You forgot one in your list above..............wasted talent IMO

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At this stage, yeah. SV made a good point on the first page about it not meaning everything to everyone, and that’s accurate of course, no more so than in the case above, IMO...

 

[JB1975]

Just out of interest, who on here actually works in the motivational sphere?

My example has motivated multitudes to do things the opposite way.

 

[Scodog10]

My POV is a balanced one. Many players haven't developed well but that doesn't mean that I am going to completely discount the ones who have. I'm not a club sycophant or a hater and don't believe that anyone should be labelled as such. And it's pretty obvious that our current lack of success can be attributed to more factors than just player development.

Is it though? You completely overlooked the point TD made...

Edit: I think you’re right that our lack of success is due to many factors. I also hazard a guess most would view it as pretty obvious that there are a number of issues at play whether you’re a sycophant, hater or Swiss.

 

[Darkyprotector]

But even the teachers couldn’t teach Vickery

Or scicily

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Player Develpoment under Bucks has Been Disgusting hardly any players really have come on the Bucks Regime

Howe
Adams
Maynard
Grundy
Elliott
Phillips
Crisp!
Hoskin-Elliott

Even could argue Cox and Dunn.

Yeh, all terrible all gone backwards.

 

[Scodog10]

Just out of interest, who on here actually works in the motivational sphere?

How much of a role do you think motivation plays in the development process?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Or scicily

And Garlett

How’s he going in WA?

Hmmmm

 

[Saintly Viewed]

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Yeah he’s gone backwards....

Dave Dave Dave

 

[Gone Critical]

I may have missed a few things here but where is the article did it mention Bucks had a talk to Sier at 18 months and that was the trigger to turn his attitude.

The only reference I could see was

"Buckley disclosed that the 20-year-old's cause hadn't been helped by a less than professional attitude in his first season-and-a-half at the Holden Centre.

"By his own admission, (he) probably didn't have football high enough in his priorities in the first 18 months (of his time at the club).

"The last half of last year Brayden really knuckled down and saved his career at Collingwood in many ways, and showed at the club that he was serious about being an AFL footballer. So he earned another year on his contract."

All I could really read into it was a 17 yo who came from a non elite pathway, didnt do the TAC pathway and was slow to realise the committment need to play AFL. I am sure the development people were working with him from day 1 and not neglecting this.

I think thats the likely senario but at the end of the day we are light on details and its more dangerous to make too rapid conclusions when we dont know what went on.

 

[jackcass]

You forgot one in your list above..............wasted talent IMO

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Wouldn't go too early on Broomy. Missed the 1st game of the year in 2017 but still managed 13-14 games at career best stats. Had an interrupted preseason and form consequently ebbed and flowed a bit but it's just about the 1st year I can recall where he didn't miss blocks of games through injury. I think his 2017 season was a good launching pad for 2018.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Just out of interest, who on here actually works in the motivational sphere?

I was thinking Black White and Help My Club

?

 

[jackcass]

How much of a role do you think motivation plays in the development process?

I think it plays a significant role but I just want to gauge if anyone brings any expertise on anything development related to a discussion about development. Happy to broaden it to include anyone currently working or has worked in a development role.

 

[CFC2010]

I may have missed a few things here but where is the article did it mention Bucks had a talk to Sier at 18 months and that was the trigger to turn his attitude.

The only reference I could see was

"Buckley disclosed that the 20-year-old's cause hadn't been helped by a less than professional attitude in his first season-and-a-half at the Holden Centre.

"By his own admission, (he) probably didn't have football high enough in his priorities in the first 18 months (of his time at the club).

"The last half of last year Brayden really knuckled down and saved his career at Collingwood in many ways, and showed at the club that he was serious about being an AFL footballer. So he earned another year on his contract."

All I could really read into it was a 17 yo who came from a non elite pathway, didnt do the TAC pathway and was slow to realise the committment need to play AFL. I am sure the development people were working with him from day 1 and not neglecting this.

I think thats the likely senario but at the end of the day we are light on details and its more dangerous to make too rapid conclusions when we dont know what went on.

G C I think people are getting caught up with the name "Sier" in all of this.

I think Sco raises a valid point (thread) about our development.

"Maybe" the immature player in the future (e.g Sier) should be placed on the rookie list as opposed to the senior list sooner.
This is a professional sport not some local footy team.

 

[jackcass]

I was thinking Black White and Help My Club

?

Damn, both on my ignore list.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Would it though? I imagine he’d just respond with images of Ramsay, Kennedy, Clarke, Young, Russell, Karnezis, Richmond, Gault, Paine and Marsh.

I take it by the thread of your POV that you’ve been happy with our development of players? Whilst I disagree I can appreciate you have a different POV, but at the same time I’d ask if you’re happy with development why have the results not shown.

Has it all been talent ID or high performance?..

I’m not as keen on your list overall.
I think the bottom of list types were likely not going to make it, or were at the tail end of their careers.
Ramsay is correct, and Marsh probably is a different circumstance.

A list of Broomhead, Aish, Ramsay (as listed), Crocker, Sier, Wills, Fasolo even, maybe we’ll say De Goey at some point, Thomas, Keeffe, Oxley would be the more compelling case for “is it development”

I still think this area’s biggest concern for me, and has been for ages, is the older types that seem to fall away around 30.

 

[CFC2010]

Wouldn't go too early on Broomy. Missed the 1st game of the year in 2017 but still managed 13-14 games at career best stats. Had an interrupted preseason and form consequently ebbed and flowed a bit but it's just about the 1st year I can recall where he didn't miss blocks of games through injury. I think his 2017 season was a good launching pad for 2018.

I have written him off jackcass and I was one of his ardent supporters in the past.

I even had a disagreement with someone close to him in that I thought it was good idea for him to go on a European holiday rather than stay home and do his rehab. I was wrong......hopefully I am wrong again.

 

[sr36]

Would it though? I imagine he’d just respond with images of Ramsay, Kennedy, Clarke, Young, Russell, Karnezis, Richmond, Gault, Paine and Marsh.

I take it by the thread of your POV that you’ve been happy with our development of players? Whilst I disagree I can appreciate you have a different POV, but at the same time I’d ask if you’re happy with development why have the results not shown.

Has it all been talent ID or high performance?..

I'll give you Ramsay, but some of those other names are clutching at straws in terms of blaming development.

To me the bigger issue has been the lack of or slow development of blokes who have been in and around the senior team. Guys like Blair, Goldsack, Williams, etc...even the good ones like Sidebottom have advanced slowly.

Edit. Just saw Saintly's Post above. Basically Ditto.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Yep definitely and I touched on that in the OP. The discussion I’m attempting to generate though is more around what can/ has been done to prevent the need for a “light bulb moment” and what’s the next step in that process to ensure follow through.

Let’s say that’s exactly what was needed in this, and other instances, and ask why it took 18 months of training within that professional environment and not 6-12? What if this isn’t the moment where it turns around what are we doing if the initial burst of regeneration from that chat with Bucks doesn’t see a permanent shift? Is another chat required? If so, when?

Obvious that the review re indentified sco a problem with develoment and leadership
I would suggest that maxy is now a CONDUIT and also assisting with development as well as leadership
Did the same at GWS
Also really happy with our apointment of Boyd , hocking and most of all longmuir
By training reports senior recruits wells, dunnand even mayne are passing on knowledge like all good clubs too
We have after all been decimated by a dearth of quality assistants
McRae, Richardson, bevo all ex development coaches
I suppose we will see what happens