Rumour Player disquiet

[MC Extra Dollop]

I leave it there for my own reasons; and despite what you naievely may have assumed, it is not directed towards Shannon Byrnes. He is a good bloke the times I have met him. Does that satisfy your whining????

Errr...but his name is Shannon, therefore, he can p*ss off, right? That's exactly what you're saying. Unless you qualify it with a surname you are, by definition, including Shannon Byrnes, despite his good blokeyness. It's like saying "all Hawthorn supporters can get f**ked, except for my mates who are good guys." It's an all or nothing thing.

As for the rumours, well I welcome them if they are true. The team should be a bit dirty about the events since September and I hope it stings them, how quickly they have been viewed as yesterday's news. Be angry with each other, deliver some home truths. That builds trust and that's what a premiership is built on. Exhibit A: 2007.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

can confirm that ME is on the money here. It is from what I hear though, only 3 or 4 more senior blokes, mainly upset that

a) Sando was passed over
b) have hated Scott since he played against them. Reckon he is a "muppet". (Their word)

Im sure that a month into preseason, actually speding time with him, it will all be ok.

If true, and that's a big if, why is everyone acting like it's such a big deal?

The first rule of change management is that you will encounter resistance, particularly when the change is to an environment people are used to having had the same for years, and when the change is different to the one they wanted/were expecting. Therefore, given there's a lot of changes going on around the place, and the players have now got a coach different to the one they were expecting, and in some cases, the one they wanted. We're also getting a skewed view because we're only talking about a few players who are upset with the change. For every one that is, there's another two or three (likely to be the younger players who haven't had as much time with Bomber/Sando and aren't as attached to them) who are probably relishing the change right now as a good thing. Which is the thing, footy clubs are like any organisation, not everyone's going to agree on everything, or be happy with everything, so the fact that a few blokes have their noses out of joint over the coaching appointment is entirely predictable and utterly unremarkable.

Frankly, under the circumstances, I'd be more concerned if there was no unrest/disquiet/whatever you want to call it, because it would mean the players were so apathetic they couldn't care less.

So it's normal, to be expected. Obviously it needs to be handled well, but so long as it is, there are unlikely to be long term issues (oh and even if there are that's not a big issue because most of the senior players will be gone long before the long term anyway).

Frankly, I'm glad there's a new coach in to change the way some things are done, get people out of their comfort zone, change selection policies etc. It's good for the club, and in time, if they're on about the good of the club rather than every man for himself (which I doubt) the players will get on board with it.

So really, nothing to see here.

 

[joxstrap]

Forgive the intrusion, and possibly sensitve question:

What is the history with Scarlett's stupid comments in the past, and or falling out with other players? I hear whispers but not much more - are they just rumours or are they well known facts?

Cheers guys, and good luck in 2011.

 

[witsend]

Forgive the intrusion, and possibly sensitve question:

What is the history with Scarlett's stupid comments in the past, and or falling out with other players? I hear whispers but not much more - are they just rumours or are they well known facts?

Cheers guys, and good luck in 2011.

We have no problems with Scarlo's comments and don't consider them stupid...do you?

 

[Mooney_d'King]

Forgive the intrusion, and possibly sensitve question:

What is the history with Scarlett's stupid comments in the past, and or falling out with other players? I hear whispers but not much more - are they just rumours or are they well known facts?

Cheers guys, and good luck in 2011.

This is an example I remember from 2006: http://www.footballinvective.com/2006/0622.html. Scroll down to
"Top Cats want Bomber to stay"

He's just... spirited

 

[AM]

So really, nothing to see here.

All you needed to say PO.

 

[hbk_aus]

I see this as a similar situation to Ross Lyon coming into the Saints. At the time some players (Reiwoldt included) were pissed about Thomas getting the arse, and they took a year or 2 to come around and buy into what Lyon was doing.

Hopefully we can adapt quicker obviously...

 

[joxstrap]

We have no problems with Scarlo's comments and don't consider them stupid...do you?

Sorry, I didn't mean the question to come out like that - I was referring to comments from the first page, which intimated that he'd made some comments earlier in his career that weren't well received by other players, or that there'd been a rift between him and other players.

eg
"Me thinks TMA's "source" clearly has no ability to differentiate between "Scarlett" and "the playing group". Either that or it's October and the source, with no footy to watch, has nothing better to gossip about. "

Never mind though.

 

[The rabbi]

All you needed to say PO.

Yep, but the rest of his post was very good too.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Sorry, I didn't mean the question to come out like that - I was referring to comments from the first page, which intimated that he'd made some comments earlier in his career that weren't well received by other players, or that there'd been a rift between him and other players.

eg
"Me thinks TMA's "source" clearly has no ability to differentiate between "Scarlett" and "the playing group". Either that or it's October and the source, with no footy to watch, has nothing better to gossip about."
Never mind though.

I wasn't referring to earlier in career, I was referring to September when he called Mackie back in for the semi final, and then told his employers (our board) that they'd "be stupid to pick (anyone other than Sando)". We all know Scarlo has a bit of arrogance in him at times and is a very forceful personality. I wasn't implying a rift between him and the players, I was simply implying it's logical based on the above, to assume that if there are any players unhappy with the coaching appointment, he's at the head of the queue.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

All you needed to say PO.

Good point.

Next time I'll do it in less words.

 

[Hybrid7]

I wasn't referring to earlier in career, I was referring to September when he called Mackie back in for the semi final, and then told his employers (our board) that they'd "be stupid to pick (anyone other than Sando)". We all know Scarlo has a bit of arrogance in him at times and is a very forceful personality. I wasn't implying a rift between him and the players, I was simply implying it's logical based on the above, to assume that if there are any players unhappy with the coaching appointment, he's at the head of the queue.

And its the fact that if he is ever asked anything by the media he will give his honest answer whereas if another player was asked something similar they would probably decline to comment.

He is just a passionate bloke and doesnt mind giving a truthful answer - not in an Aker attention seeking way, but just if he is asked a question he answers it.

 

[isen river]

This is an example I remember from 2006: http://www.footballinvective.com/2006/0622.html. Scroll down to
"Top Cats want Bomber to stay"

He's just... spirited

That's a pretty hilarious analysis at the end of that Scarlett quote

 

[Turbocat]

Good point.

Next time I'll do it in less words.

Why? It was an insightful post. Some don't like long posts , I figure if its too long and becomes boring people will just skip it anyway. Keep posting that quality and I certainly will keep reading it.

I long time ago I posted about our use of this current model for running the club. The all inclusive model that gets the leading players making decisions rather than be told by a central figure type model. It has been far more successful that I thought and was instrumental in our flags but the downside to this model seems to be the end of the cycle. Give someone power and they don't like it when you remove it or remind them that it was really a limited power or imaginary. Carlton won the 95 Flag using player empowerment but within 5 or 6 years the place melted because its true leaders moved on and then every man and his dog thought they ran the place.Pagan had hell on earth trying cope with the consequences.

At Thompson's last Presser he insinuated that the players wouldn't buy in to a new style , that sounds to me like some are thinking their opinions are more important than the coaches. Long term , if this continued then we could be looking at a Ayres type situation , where he felt he needed to clean the fetid flesh back to the bones and we all know what happened. It was probably not good for anyone.

Now , I tend to agree with you most who are upset or out of sorts will get used to the idea , then upon experiencing the new face for themselves probably get more than happy about. The only players who might not are ones who feel a change in style might be detrimental to their careers , perhaps a few guys hoped that they could use some of the credits in the bank now find that their Bank has been taken over and the credits have been devalued. Noses out of joint or not , they have little choice but to get on board the Scott Train or be left at the station. There is going to be plenty that will be hoping for a new chance so its get over it , get on with it or get run over by it and be replaced by it. Their choice.

 

[AM]

Why? It was an insightful post. Some don't like long posts , I figure if its too long and becomes boring people will just skip it anyway. Keep posting that quality and I certainly will keep reading it.

I long time ago I posted about our use of this current model for running the club. The all inclusive model that gets the leading players making decisions rather than be told by a central figure type model. It has been far more successful that I thought and was instrumental in our flags but the downside to this model seems to be the end of the cycle. Give someone power and they don't like it when you remove it or remind them that it was really a limited power or imaginary. Carlton won the 95 Flag using player empowerment but within 5 or 6 years the place melted because its true leaders moved on and then every man and his dog thought they ran the place.Pagan had hell on earth trying cope with the consequences.

At Thompson's last Presser he insinuated that the players wouldn't buy in to a new style , that sounds to me like some are thinking their opinions are more important than the coaches. Long term , if this continued then we could be looking at a Ayres type situation , where he felt he needed to clean the fetid flesh back to the bones and we all know what happened. It was probably not good for anyone.

Now , I tend to agree with you most who are upset or out of sorts will get used to the idea , then upon experiencing the new face for themselves probably get more than happy about. The only players who might not are ones who feel a change in style might be detrimental to their careers , perhaps a few guys hoped that they could use some of the credits in the bank now find that their Bank has been taken over and the credits have been devalued. Noses out of joint or not , they have little choice but to get on board the Scott Train or be left at the station. There is going to be plenty that will be hoping for a new chance so its get over it , get on with it or get run over by it and be replaced by it. Their choice.

Let's hope your sense of humour returns soon, Turbo.

PO,
I'm sure you appreciated that it wasn't about your worthwhile post but about the thread.Sheesh!

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Let's hope your sense of humour returns soon, Turbo.

PO,
I'm sure you appreciated that it wasn't about your worthwhile post but about the thread.Sheesh!

Yeah no worries.

Turbo is right too vis a vis the fact that there is pros and cons to the inclusive/empowerment/leadership stuff.

There's no doubt players who feel their careers are on the line may well be resistant to the new coach, but they need to realise change is inevietable in footy, and they were soon going to be close to the end of their shelf life anyway regardless of who the coach was. Hopefully those blokes buy into the direction the new coach wants, and regardless of the effect on them, be happy to be around the group and educate the young blokes. But I don't think it's a huge issue...ultimately we're going to have to have such turnover anyway, that the most important thing is to educate the young blokes, and I'm totally guessing, but that probably had a fair bit to do with the choice of coach.

 

[Turbocat]

Let's hope your sense of humour returns soon, Turbo.

PO,
I'm sure you appreciated that it wasn't about your worthwhile post but about the thread.Sheesh!

Ammo , nothing personal mate. Humour. Yes I've been described as a pretty humorless bastard before sometimes what is funny to one just miss the mark on another. Nothing personal , I laugh at some movies that my misses just looks at me and wonders what went wrong when the cells divided.

I just wanted put the other view and support PO

 

[witsend]

Sorry, I didn't mean the question to come out like that - I was referring to comments from the first page, which intimated that he'd made some comments earlier in his career that weren't well received by other players, or that there'd been a rift between him and other players.

eg
"Me thinks TMA's "source" clearly has no ability to differentiate between "Scarlett" and "the playing group". Either that or it's October and the source, with no footy to watch, has nothing better to gossip about. "

Never mind though.

No worries. The truth about Scarlo is that he will not offer up info but if asked will only say the truth as he believes it. He doesn't play the diplomat for anyone. That's why he's so well respected at the club. Chappy is somewhat the same.
It's why they'll never be captains but are clearly leaders.
Interestingly, over the past 4 years, whenever we had a loss, Scarlo was always designated as the person to do the post match interview. Presumably to give the playing group some home-truths.
Thanks for your input btw and congrats on the flag...feels great doesn't it?

 

[pinion]

This is an example I remember from 2006: http://www.footballinvective.com/2006/0622.html. Scroll down to
"Top Cats want Bomber to stay"

He's just... spirited

it's amazing how much can change iun 4 years. dennis pagan was coaching and daryn creswell was the next big thing?

 

[witsend]

it's amazing how much can change iun 4 years. dennis pagan was coaching and daryn creswell was the next big thing?

Scarlo was right, wasn't he??!!!

 

[pinion]

Scarlo was right, wasn't he??!!!

well it would have been better if scarlo had said 'bomber will win 2 flags and creswell will be a disgraced gambling addict' but yeah

 

[OldStyle2007]

Yo Turbo Cat

Look at the big losses we suffered in the last few years. 2010 PF and 2008 GF

Who did Bomber put responsibility onto? That's right, the players

When in actuality in 2008 it was the team that was picked for the GF. And in 2010 things like dropping Mackie and Blake in the finals who both played most of the games through the season makes you go "why do that when it's too late??"

 

[Sttew]

It is inevitable some members of the club will be put out by the changes. Human nature. Its what happens now that counts. And I for one believe Scott is best credentialed to deal with any fallout.

 

[Mooney_d'King]

That's a pretty hilarious analysis at the end of that Scarlett quote

Yeah he didn't hold much back

 

[Vdubs]

It is inevitable some members of the club will be put out by the changes. Human nature. Its what happens now that counts. And I for one believe Scott is best credentialed to deal with any fallout.

Agree, and likely the next few years are going to be transitional and possibly frustrating years anyway while the aged depart and the rebuild starts and gains momentum