player expectations

[danzan22]

i like the look of this kid, he has the speed to outrun players, now i would want him to bulkup a bit without losing his speed so he can break tackles. before he was injured he looked like he was going to cement a spot in the team.

 

[Crave]

Winderlich seems to possess all the key attributes to make it in our midfield, speed, grunt, penetrating kick, strength and pretty quick disposal. What hasnt gone his way are injuries and the fact that there are a few who stand in the way of a regular senior spot. I feel he needs to fight to earn his spot and retain it to truly be recognised for his talents or his potential may never be realised.

 

[Not a Wellman]

Yeh a lot of people have real high expectations of winders.

Is it because he's quick and we lack pace? Is it because Sheedy talked him up and said he needs to be apart of our midfield for 07? Or are the glimpses he's been showing really something to look forward too?

I want him to play 22 games and prove me wrong but i feel he will get a game this year because we are to slow and not really cement his spot.

 

[DaSawx]

Yeh a lot of people have real high expectations of winders.

Is it because he's quick and we lack pace? Is it because Sheedy talked him up and said he needs to be apart of our midfield for 07? Or are the glimpses he's been showing really something to look forward too?

I want him to play 22 games and prove me wrong but i feel he will get a game this year because we are to slow and not really cement his spot.

Its not because we lack pace IMO, it's because he's closest to the full package than any other young midfielder on the list.

He's fast, he can find the footy, he can break the lines, he has a very good kick on the run, he can be accountable. That's why he's ahead of the Dyson's and Dempsey's.

On the bench in my best 22

 

[Boris_Bewick]

Its not because we lack pace IMO, it's because he's closest to the full package than any other young midfielder on the list.

He's fast, he can find the footy, he can break the lines, he has a very good kick on the run, he can be accountable. That's why he's ahead of the Dyson's and Dempsey's.

On the bench in my best 22

Has this really been proven? As we've already discussed, we have differing opinions of young Winders, and Dyson for that matter. I don't think he has done enough to have a spot in the current 22, albeit on the bench. As also discussed, I think Dyson has shown he can find the footy better, has broken lines much better, eg. the Carlton goal (one of the goals of the year) and the run against Richmond (he got run down I know but it was a great linebreaking run), also has a good kick. He does struggle with accountability, sure. But once again I can't see how Winderlich is ahead of him, based purely on the games they have both played.

I agree with Wellman, I want to see a lot of very solid games from Winders next season, I do want him to prove me wrong

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Its not because we lack pace IMO, it's because he's closest to the full package than any other young midfielder on the list.

He's fast, he can find the footy, he can break the lines, he has a very good kick on the run, he can be accountable. That's why he's ahead of the Dyson's and Dempsey's.

On the bench in my best 22

If he is the most complete of all of our midefileders then we may as well delist half the list and start again.

Why does everyone talk about Winderlich as some gun. What has he done - he tried in a few games and ended up getting injured because he is built like a pencil.

Lets look at this way - Watson has only played one season and he already is so far ahead of Winderlich it isn't funny.

Why is it like Lucas did, Stanton still cops heaps because of a few poor kicks, yet Dyson has this superb kick and Winderlich is super fast.

Lets keep to what has happened. I am so sick of this potnetial crap. Until they deliver they are not footballers but merely wannabes. Thats been our problem for 4 years. Wannabes that have been talked up and delisted.

Our team is not top 8 material because these wannabes have not stood up whether through injury or form. Whatever the reason we finihsed second bottom and its about time we started looking deeply at our list and not using rose coloured glasses all the time.

 

[Longy413]

Has this really been proven?

I reckon it has in the periods of time he is spent on the ground. He's had limited game time and should have had a whole lot more.

Unlike Dyson, he performs consistently at VFL level and does find the footy when he is on the field at AFL level. In the 5 or so games before he got injured, I reckon we were starting to see that, even though he still wasn't getting a heap of game time.

If he is the most complete of all of our midefileders then we may as well delist half the list and start again.

I don't reckon he's the most complete of all our young midfielders. But besides Jetta, he does seem to have the most tricks. He does have pace, he does like it tough, he can find space and he has good foot skills. Like Jobe Watson in 2006, he just needs a decent crack at it.

 

[DaSawx]

Why does everyone talk about Winderlich as some gun. What has he done - he tried in a few games and ended up getting injured because he is built like a pencil.

he's not that skinny, just because he got injured doesn't mean its because he's a pencil, Jon Brown got injured

Lets look at this way - Watson has only played one season and he already is so far ahead of Winderlich it isn't funny.

They've both been in the system a similar amount of time, Watson found his role int he team a half year before Winderlich, his injury was unfortunate

Why is it like Lucas did, Stanton still cops heaps because of a few poor kicks, yet Dyson has this superb kick and Winderlich is super fast.

That's opposition supporters, Stanton's kick is very much on the improve

Lets keep to what has happened. I am so sick of this potnetial crap. Until they deliver they are not footballers but merely wannabes. Thats been our problem for 4 years. Wannabes that have been talked up and delisted.

Our team is not top 8 material because these wannabes have not stood up whether through injury or form. Whatever the reason we finihsed second bottom and its about time we started looking deeply at our list and not using rose coloured glasses all the time.

Winderlich was standing up more so than any other young midfielder, hence the 2 year deal, if Dyson doesn't stepup this year he is in trouble.

Don't know where you've been, no team has turned their list over more than we have the last few years, there's only a handfull of players left playing for their careers this year

 

[Pevers-Legend]

I don't reckon he's the most complete of all our young midfielders.

I'm glad we agree on that

But besides Jetta, he does seem to have the most tricks. He does have pace, he does like it tough, he can find space and he has good foot skills. Like Jobe Watson in 2006, he just needs a decent crack at it.

How many times has he been run down - too many - although he is not slow, he is not super fast.
He does go in hard. I'll agree there although with the body of a pencil he will struggle to stay fit.
He finds space because no one mans him up
He may have ok foot skills but he has no penetration on his kick.

Let's compare him to say Peverill who is another wipping boy

Pace - 50-50
Going in hard - Peverill
finding space - winderlich
Skills - winderlich
ability to play at senior level and not be brushed off the footy - Peverill

all in all - Peverill ahs the urns on the board yet fights for his spot and winderlich gets a two year deal on some average footy.

I know he is a fvourite of yours longy so we'll have to agree to disagree - but really - no one can say he has done anything of note - not one stand out game. How many times did he receive votes in Crichton Medal? curious to know.

 

[Boris_Bewick]

I reckon it has in the periods of time he is spent on the ground. He's had limited game time and should have had a whole lot more.

Unlike Dyson, he performs consistently at VFL level and does find the footy when he is on the field at AFL level. In the 5 or so games before he got injured, I reckon we were starting to see that, even though he still wasn't getting a heap of game time.
.

I agree we were starting to see it. Unfortunately for him and us, we didn't, due to injury.
I don't see much VFL which is a shame, but, maybe due to his injury, Winderlich hasn't shown more than Dyson at AFL level. Dyson has shown more, in my opinion. Not a considerable amount, but still more.

 

[Boris_Bewick]

I know he is a fvourite of yours longy so we'll have to agree to disagree - but really - no one can say he has done anything of note - not one stand out game. How many times did he receive votes in Crichton Medal? curious to know.

That's my argument. Dyson has had his standout games. Brisbane, St. Kilda are the ones I have previously stated, were very solid individual performances. Top 5 best players games.

Winderlich hasn't done that yet. Except maybe in the game against Adelaide, and even Port Adelaide, where we got absolutely thumped.

 

[Longy413]

How many times has he been run down - too many - although he is not slow, he is not super fast.

Given he gave away 5 free kicks in 2006, I'd say 5 at the most. But I don't actually remember it happening in 2006, I think you're judging that on years gone by.

He is super fast, he ran away from Lovett on Saturday.

He does go in hard. I'll agree there although with the body of a pencil he will struggle to stay fit.

From all reports, he's put on 5-6kg's and you can see it on him. He's probably another pre-season away from being a similar size to Heff. Dustin Fletcher never had an issue.

He finds space because no one mans him up
He may have ok foot skills but he has no penetration on his kick.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree on both of those points.
He find space because he runs hard to position and he has the pace to burn off opponents. He kicks the ball low and hard, he's kicked goals for us from outside 50.

Let's compare him to say Peverill who is another wipping boy

Pace - 50-50
Going in hard - Peverill
finding space - winderlich
Skills - winderlich
ability to play at senior level and not be brushed off the footy - Peverill

Winderlich has much better pace than Peverill. Massively better.

You're also forgetting scope for improvement, experience and the like.
Winderlich isn't a finished product, far from it.
Pev IMO is finished.

all in all - Peverill ahs the urns on the board yet fights for his spot and winderlich gets a two year deal on some average footy.

Difference is, no one wanted Pev.
Winderlich would have walked into a number of clubs and got a two year deal. Winderlich is still developing, he has tricks up his sleeve.
Pev has reached his peak and is going backwards.

I know he is a fvourite of yours longy so we'll have to agree to disagree - but really - no one can say he has done anything of note - not one stand out game. How many times did he receive votes in Crichton Medal? curious to know.

He's not a favourite of mine, I just think he's got some talent, enough talent to make it at the top level.

I thought his game against Adelaide last year was outstanding, we got smashed, but Winderlich was one of three or four that could hold their head up. Don't know about the Crichton, not many I'd presume.

 

[daveyboy3]

Why does everyone talk about Winderlich as some gun. What has he done - he tried in a few games and ended up getting injured because he is built like a pencil.

Didn't Winderlich get a stress fracture in his leg?
They are actually less likely to occur to a skinny guy so that point is hardly valid.

 

[Crave]

That's my argument. Dyson has had his standout games. Brisbane, St. Kilda are the ones I have previously stated, were very solid individual performances. Top 5 best players games.

Winderlich hasn't done that yet. Except maybe in the game against Adelaide, and even Port Adelaide, where we got absolutely thumped.

You're forgetting his output prior to 05 and 06. He was placed in heavy traffic, pretty much in the deep end and showed much earlier on that he could be used to drive the ball long and hard into our forward line.

Injuries have cut him back somewhat, but potentially....he's still on the way up in terms of his personal development and careerwise.

Everyone is talking about our 'new recruit' in Lloyd, personally speaking...Id add Winderlich also for his invaluable senior experience also.

 

[Crave]

I agree we were starting to see it. Unfortunately for him and us, we didn't, due to injury.
I don't see much VFL which is a shame, but, maybe due to his injury, Winderlich hasn't shown more than Dyson at AFL level. Dyson has shown more, in my opinion. Not a considerable amount, but still more.

Only due to injury has Dyson shown more, but its only due to oppotunity. I would imagine if the roles were reversed, Dyson would be considerably behind Winderlich.

 

[Boris_Bewick]

Only due to injury has Dyson shown more, but its only due to oppotunity. I would imagine if the roles were reversed, Dyson would be considerably behind Winderlich.

You're probably right, but unfortunately for Winderlich that's not how it has panned out. My point is that Dyson at the moment should be considered ahead of Winderlich in the pecking order. He has played more games, played better "stand-out" games, averaged more disposals, and kicked more goals.

.You're forgetting his output prior to 05 and 06. He was placed in heavy traffic, pretty much in the deep end and showed much earlier on that he could be used to drive the ball long and hard into our forward line.

Injuries have cut him back somewhat, but potentially....he's still on the way up in terms of his personal development and careerwise.

Everyone is talking about our 'new recruit' in Lloyd, personally speaking...Id add Winderlich also for his invaluable senior experience also.

I don't think you could consider Winderlich as having 'invaluable' senior experience just yet. His work prior to '05 and '06, featured 3 games in 03 and 6 in '04. Games, whilst still very young, he didn't exactly take by the scruff of the neck. In my opinion, he only started to show some real form in '06. His '05 season, apart from a top game against Sydney where he kicked a sensational goal, was pretty non-eventful.

Are you forgetting Dyson's work prior to this year? The 2nd half of his season was, for a 2nd year player, very good. He was kicking goals regularly, and finding the ball well.

I have never said that Winderlich doesn't have a chance of improving, I know he will, and I also expect Dyson to. There is every chance Winderlich's place in the side will overtake Dyson's.

But people say that this is Dyson's last chance next year, when in my opinion he is further developed than Winderlich, who has had a year longer in the system. I just don't understand how he is so far ahead of Dyson.

 

[Crave]

You're probably right, but unfortunately for Winderlich that's not how it has panned out. My point is that Dyson at the moment should be considered ahead of Winderlich in the pecking order. He has played more games, played better "stand-out" games, averaged more disposals, and kicked more goals.



I don't think you could consider Winderlich as having 'invaluable' senior experience just yet. His work prior to '05 and '06, featured 3 games in 03 and 6 in '04. Games, whilst still very young, he didn't exactly take by the scruff of the neck. In my opinion, he only started to show some real form in '06. His '05 season, apart from a top game against Sydney where he kicked a sensational goal, was pretty non-eventful.

Are you forgetting Dyson's work prior to this year? The 2nd half of his season was, for a 2nd year player, very good. He was kicking goals regularly, and finding the ball well.

I have never said that Winderlich doesn't have a chance of improving, I know he will, and I also expect Dyson to. There is every chance Winderlich's place in the side will overtake Dyson's.

But people say that this is Dyson's last chance next year, when in my opinion he is further developed than Winderlich, who has had a year longer in the system. I just don't understand how he is so far ahead of Dyson.

IMO, I would place Winders above Dyson with his aggression to the contest and his physical attributes .Dyson just doesnt seem to be maturing physically from what Ive seen of him, whereas Winders looks like he can handle the rigours of being in the centre square.

 

[Longy413]

Two differences between Dyson and Winderlich.

The first, Dyson has more competition for spots. IMO there are three types of midfielders. Inside, Outside and Burst midfielders.

Jobe Watson is an inside midfielder, Ricky Dyson is an outside midfielder, Winderlich is a burst midfielder, he has the ability to win contested ball and burst from a stoppage, he can effectively play as an inside and outside midfielder. That's rare.

The second is Winderlich is contracted for 2007, Dyson isn't.

I'd love to see Ricky Dyson make it, I'm by no means writing him off. Fact is, whilst Winderlich's season ended early his form was on the up, Dyson's was indifferent and probably on the way down. Winderlich was gaining in confidence, Dyson's was dropping.

And it's not just Winderlich, it's Nash who's overtaken Dyson as well, even Monfries is pushing for a midfield spot. We've also just drafted 5 midfielders, four of which are staking claims on starting spots. Jetta and Davey are both quick midfielders with footskills, but they are outside mids, just like Dyson. Further competition for a spot.

If Dyson doesn't stake his claim early in the season and Nash/Demspey continues to develop and Jetta and Davey hit the ground running, Dyson doesn't have a contract to save him. Winderlich does.

 

[marcuz]

Two differences between Dyson and Winderlich.

The first, Dyson has more competition for spots. IMO there are three types of midfielders. Inside, Outside and Burst midfielders.

Jobe Watson is an inside midfielder, Ricky Dyson is an outside midfielder, Winderlich is a burst midfielder, he has the ability to win contested ball and burst from a stoppage, he can effectively play as an inside and outside midfielder. That's rare.

The second is Winderlich is contracted for 2007, Dyson isn't.

I'd love to see Ricky Dyson make it, I'm by no means writing him off. Fact is, whilst Winderlich's season ended early his form was on the up, Dyson's was indifferent and probably on the way down. Winderlich was gaining in confidence, Dyson's was dropping.

And it's not just Winderlich, it's Nash who's overtaken Dyson as well, even Monfries is pushing for a midfield spot. We've also just drafted 5 midfielders, four of which are staking claims on starting spots. Jetta and Davey are both quick midfielders with footskills, but they are outside mids, just like Dyson. Further competition for a spot.

As much as Dyson is percieved to be an outside midfielder his clean hands in traffic is as good as there is at the club. Most of his best work last season was done by getting the footy in traffic giving off a quick handball and running on again to recieve. This was very much in evidence against the blues, lions and saints. Goal kicking midfielders are like gold in todays game and dyson moreso than most has the chance to become a very good one.

Form permitting both Winderlich and Dyson should be in the seniors round 1. Its time for these two kids to become the footballers we know they can be. Their footskills and speed along with Nash can bring our team to a whole new level. No disrespect to Pev, Campo, Heff etc but their time is just about done.

 

[Longy413]

I disagree, I reckon he gets lost in traffic. Especially if the ball is in transition.
If the ball is on the ground, he is good at picking it up at speed, but his movement through traffic concerns me.

He's capable of improvement though, but there are a few ahead of him IMO.

 

[danzan22]

i know everyone is talking about dyson and winderlich and what they want them to be, but what do people think of jay nash (sorry angus6 for stepping in), i hope that he gets alot more game time and games next year.

 

[marcuz]

I disagree, I reckon he gets lost in traffic. Especially if the ball is in transition.
If the ball is on the ground, he is good at picking it up at speed, but his movement through traffic concerns me.

I still think if he makes it it will be as a centre square on baller rather than a wingmen. All his best games have included big stints in the engine room.

 

[marcuz]

i know everyone is talking about dyson and winderlich and what they want them to be, but what do people think of jay nash (sorry angus6 for stepping in), i hope that he gets alot more game time and games next year.

I've rated him for awhile, he has all the tools to be a good footballer. Size, speed, silky skills and his best asset which is great field awareness(vision). He could be essendon's version of Lindsey Gilbee.

 

[Longy413]

I still think if he makes it it will be as a centre square on baller rather than a wingmen. All his best games have included big stints in the engine room.

It's all pretty much one and the same in the modern game anyway. Few play as a pure wingman anymore, rotations have seen to that.

I'm not writing him off, he still has enough quality to make it and if he reaches his potential, he'll be a huge asset to our side. However, it terms of developing players, he has more competition for a spot than in years gone by and the pressure is definately on him.

 

[Shane Hird]

It's all pretty much one and the same in the modern game anyway. Few play as a pure wingman anymore, rotations have seen to that.

I'm not writing him off, he still has enough quality to make it and if he reaches his potential, he'll be a huge asset to our side. However, it terms of developing players, he has more competition for a spot than in years gone by and the pressure is definately on him.

You can say that again......and a few of his bomber mates too.