List Mgmt. Player List Management 2019-20

DaTBird187

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 9, 2014
8,696
20,089
By the fire drinking Cognac.
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool, Boston Celtics
Hey Port crew,

Hoping that Carlton are in talks with your mob re. Sam Gray and am surprised he is rumoured to be on the outer.

Posted on our board re. Gray: to my eye, looks a crafty little bugger, has a knack for kicking clutch goals, making something out of nothing, looks clean, can also go through the middle and will come much cheaper than what is being bandied around for a Tom Papley. What's the actual knock on him? He's short? You guys need cap room?

What do you think his worth will be? Hoping we are 1. looking at him and 2. can do a reasonable trade with you guys. Happy to rip Adelaide off at every trade period (makes me so happy) so we don't need to do the same with you guys ;)
Don't forget he successfully returned the ring to Mordor.
 

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Us against the rest

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 26, 2012
12,012
14,097
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide

“When Ken Hinkley arrived at Port Adelaide the team enjoyed a classic new coach bounce and that, combined with the early promise of elite young draft talents Chad Wingard and Ollie Wines, convinced the club they were poised to strike at a flag.


“The moment they felt they were on a good wicket they went hard at bringing in mature players in pursuit of immediate success – but they botched it…


“What Port should’ve done instead after the early successes of Hinkley was double down on the potential of their most elite talents, Wines and Wingard, by continuing to invest in the draft and bring in quality players to strengthen that age group with an eye to when they would become the mature core of the team.”
 
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Chrizzt

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2009
7,583
14,924
AFL Club
Port Adelaide

“When Ken Hinkley arrived at Port Adelaide the team enjoyed a classic new coach bounce and that, combined with the early promise of elite young draft talents Chad Wingard and Ollie Wines, convinced the club they were poised to strike at a flag.


“The moment they felt they were on a good wicket they went hard at bringing in mature players in pursuit of immediate success – but they botched it…


“What Port should’ve done instead after the early successes of Hinkley was double down on the potential of their most elite talents, Wines and Wingard, by continuing to invest in the draft and bring in quality players to strengthen that age group with an eye to when they would become the mature core of the team.”
Pretty poor article IMO - lot of revisionist opinion, and sculpting arguments to suit a pre-determined conclusion. The author even mentions Rockliff and Toumpas ffs - those two cost us a total of a fourth and fifth round pick.

The two big hits to our drafting have been the Ryder and Dixon trades. But both of those were necessary components missing from our team and we didn't have any kids on the list looking likely of taking those spots at the time, and given the picks we traded, we were extremely unlikely to have been able to draft for those roles.

Hawthorn were lauded by all and sundry for years for their strategy of trades over drafts keeping their window open for so long and enabling the threepeat. But not only have we gone strong on trades, we've also hit the draft hard, too. The author even concedes that we've picked 5 first rounders in 5 years!

End of the day, reckon list management has been a pretty strong area for us in the last 6 or 7 years. Problems at the club lie elsewhere...
 

Us against the rest

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 26, 2012
12,012
14,097
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I think that's really the point they are trying to make in the article.

If we had on field success in this time frame, it wouldn't even be an issue.

The club has changed it's direction without doubt, after recruiting Trengove, Ryder, Dixon, Rocklffe & Watts. KT said it at the time, He believed we had a top 4 side. After bringing in a host of mature players and we never got that quick success, so they moved on Wingard, Pittard and Polec to hit the draft where we gained the likes of Duursma, Rozee & Butters and also gained the services of Burton.

Unfortunately imo we under achieved back then and should have been finals bound in 2017 - 2018.
 

shewho

Club Legend
Oct 7, 2005
2,188
4,127
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Are there other teams?
Ladhams*............... Woodcock
Farrell Marshall Rozee*
Houston* Wines Duursma*
Burton
Howard Garner*
Bonner Clurey Byrne-Jones

Hayes Drew Butters

Atley* J.Burgoyne* Schofield* Mead* Powell-Pepper* Frampton* Amon Fredericks

*=with stints in the guts Bold=will be stars

This is why the List Management thread should be re-named the "Get Lukosius" thread.
 

GremioPower

"You Are Not Port Adelaide"
May 26, 2017
7,208
12,194
Uruguayana, RS (BRA) [last: Rockville, MD (USA)]
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Grêmio, DC United, Clev. Indians
Hey Port crew,

Hoping that Carlton are in talks with your mob re. Sam Gray and am surprised he is rumoured to be on the outer.

Posted on our board re. Gray: to my eye, looks a crafty little bugger, has a knack for kicking clutch goals, making something out of nothing, looks clean, can also go through the middle and will come much cheaper than what is being bandied around for a Tom Papley. What's the actual knock on him? He's short? You guys need cap room?

What do you think his worth will be? Hoping we are 1. looking at him and 2. can do a reasonable trade with you guys. Happy to rip Adelaide off at every trade period (makes me so happy) so we don't need to do the same with you guys ;)
He works hard, but, much like the rest of the team, he is inconsistent. I like him, but I am in the minority around here.
 

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Chrizzt

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2009
7,583
14,924
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I think that's really the point they are trying to make in the article.

If we had on field success in this time frame, it wouldn't even be an issue.
You shouldn't always take the headline as being substantive of the body of the article (given they're often written by other people) - but the headline actually says "Trading for trading's sake is why Port Adelaide have tread water for the last 5 years".

The article observes the obvious conclusion (that we have been mediocre) then just decided that's due to our list management, while contradicting their own arguments.

The club has changed it's direction without doubt, after recruiting Trengove, Ryder, Dixon, Rocklffe & Watts. KT said it at the time, He believed we had a top 4 side. After bringing in a host of mature players and we never got that quick success, so they moved on Wingard, Pittard and Polec to hit the draft where we gained the likes of Duursma, Rozee & Butters and also gained the services of Burton.

Unfortunately imo we under achieved back then and should have been finals bound in 2017 - 2018.
Have we changed direction, or has our list management just gotten really good at identifying when drafts are good/deep and when are good years to trade out picks for trades? I'd argue it's acute list management, rather than changing strategies - we've hit hard in the deep drafts, and traded out to make use of mediocre(ish) draft picks in shallow drafts.
 

Malibu#27

Premium Platinum
Feb 25, 2002
13,737
8,364
Barossa Valley
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Port Magpies, Redbacks
You shouldn't always take the headline as being substantive of the body of the article (given they're often written by other people) - but the headline actually says "Trading for trading's sake is why Port Adelaide have tread water for the last 5 years".

The article observes the obvious conclusion (that we have been mediocre) then just decided that's due to our list management, while contradicting their own arguments.



Have we changed direction, or has our list management just gotten really good at identifying when drafts are good/deep and when are good years to trade out picks for trades? I'd argue it's acute list management, rather than changing strategies - we've hit hard in the deep drafts, and traded out to make use of mediocre(ish) draft picks in shallow drafts.
I seem to recall reading we identified last years draft a while out as a strong one, and that part of our free agency work the year before was an attempt to help us get capital for last years draft ad it gave us the ability to trade out some currency.
 

Us against the rest

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 26, 2012
12,012
14,097
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
You shouldn't always take the headline as being substantive of the body of the article (given they're often written by other people) - but the headline actually says "Trading for trading's sake is why Port Adelaide have tread water for the last 5 years".

The article observes the obvious conclusion (that we have been mediocre) then just decided that's due to our list management, while contradicting their own arguments.



Have we changed direction, or has our list management just gotten really good at identifying when drafts are good/deep and when are good years to trade out picks for trades? I'd argue it's acute list management, rather than changing strategies - we've hit hard in the deep drafts, and traded out to make use of mediocre(ish) draft picks in shallow drafts.
I suppose time will tell, without some success in the next 2 years it will all be debatable.
 

Us against the rest

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 26, 2012
12,012
14,097
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Pretty poor article IMO - lot of revisionist opinion, and sculpting arguments to suit a pre-determined conclusion. The author even mentions Rockliff and Toumpas ffs - those two cost us a total of a fourth and fifth round pick.

The two big hits to our drafting have been the Ryder and Dixon trades. But both of those were necessary components missing from our team and we didn't have any kids on the list looking likely of taking those spots at the time, and given the picks we traded, we were extremely unlikely to have been able to draft for those roles.

Hawthorn were lauded by all and sundry for years for their strategy of trades over drafts keeping their window open for so long and enabling the threepeat. But not only have we gone strong on trades, we've also hit the draft hard, too. The author even concedes that we've picked 5 first rounders in 5 years!

End of the day, reckon list management has been a pretty strong area for us in the last 6 or 7 years. Problems at the club lie elsewhere...
The article is what it is, some facts thrown in with some opinions. But it does align with your thoughts in parts.

Drafting

Something of an odd quirk when it comes to Port’s drafting over this period of time is that they’ve still taken five first-round selections in five years, but those picks come entirely from two of those five drafts.

The end result is that only three clubs have spent less at the draft than Port Adelaide over the last five years. Those three clubs are Hawthorn, Geelong, and Richmond – and unlike Port, they have regular finals campaigns, even premierships, to show for it.

Even though their investment in the draft has been limited during this period of time, Port have done well for it. They’re on par for the expected return in just about all five of their drafts – lagging a little in 2016 – and even ahead of it, in many cases.

For example over the 2014 and 2015 drafts, even though they had very little to play with they’ve managed to find some really solid players in Dougal Howard, Riley Bonner and Dan Houston.

Sam Powell-Pepper is so far their best performer from that 2016 draft, and while the group as a whole are slighlty behind the pace, expect that to change in the near future as Todd Marshall and Peter Ladhams come of age.

They’re yet to get much traction out of the 2017 draft, but their crop of three first round picks in 2018 – Connor Rozee, Zak Butters and Xavier Duursma – is performing extremely well after just one year at the level.
 

MrChow

All Australian
Jun 24, 2015
751
863
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I like our trade/draft strategy over the past bit. A club financially on our knees, bottoming out for greater draft currency was not an option. Finishing mid table helped us recruit players and most importantly free agents. It gave the fans some wins and enjoyment at the same time.

Think we all know that our current leadership group will never win us a flag. They have consistently failed in big moments. They just don’t know how to win, I think they just lost too much- after the dark days following 2007...

But our team in 2-3 years won’t have that baggage hopefully. Anyone over 25 has to be trade bait.
 

MrChow

All Australian
Jun 24, 2015
751
863
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Ladhams*............... Woodcock
Farrell Marshall Rozee*
Houston* Wines Duursma*
Burton
Howard Garner*
Bonner Clurey Byrne-Jones

Hayes Drew Butters

Atley* J.Burgoyne* Schofield*Mead* Powell-Pepper* Frampton* Amon Fredericks

*=with stints in the guts Bold=will be stars

This is why the List Management thread should be re-named the "Get Lukosius" thread.
Maybe Billy F needs some sun?
 

davo999

Team Captain
Nov 5, 2009
334
340
Aldinga Beach
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I think we’ll find Dixon , Wines, Jonas ,Hartlett, Howard and R. Gray will have better years next year so that’ll be a good start . I think Marshall will step up a little higher on the good player ladder , I think Butters, Farrell, Ladhams and Rozee to improve their output , it’s that midfield and ruck mix we have to get right . An outside mid . I think Douglas can still develop as the intercept tall defender with Jonas and Clurey as the other tall defenders with McKenzie as back up we’re ok there , maybe a young key defender in the draft .
But I think our most pressing need is gun pacy skilful mids
 

Andre

Premium Platinum
Sep 3, 2002
23,655
26,209
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I think we’ll find Dixon , Wines, Jonas ,Hartlett, Howard and R. Gray will have better years next year so that’ll be a good start . I think Marshall will step up a little higher on the good player ladder , I think Butters, Farrell, Ladhams and Rozee to improve their output , it’s that midfield and ruck mix we have to get right . An outside mid . I think Douglas can still develop as the intercept tall defender with Jonas and Clurey as the other tall defenders with McKenzie as back up we’re ok there , maybe a young key defender in the draft .
But I think our most pressing need is gun pacy skilful mids
Unless the 6-6-6 rules are removed Jonas is going to be a player no longer suited to the game still. Robbie isn’t getting any younger. Hartlett is never going to have a whole year playing well, give up the hope. Howard it depends if he’s left back the whole year. There’s potential to improve, but one or more of our draftees may have second year blues and we’re still stuck with The Handbrake holding the talent back.
 

malcolm

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 8, 2004
9,396
9,977
holden hill
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
liverpool
What worked

Power future looks Rozee
All of three of Port's first-round selections from last year – Connor Rozee, Xavier Duursma and Zak Butters – made an impact at senior level.

Former skipper thrives in midfield return
Travis Boak was outstanding with an increased midfield role and without the burden of captaining the side as he had done for the past six seasons.

Houston, we have lift-off
Dan Houston's move from defence to midfield was an inspired choice, adding a quality ball user to a midfield full of inside bulls.


What Failed

Efficiency in forward half of the ground

The Power's delivery into their forward 50 and finishing was below par. Only three players kicked more than 20 goals for the season – Rozee (29), Robbie Gray (24) and Sam Gray (20).

Lycett/Ryder ruck combo
Star recruit Scott Lycett was better as a solo ruckman than sharing the duties with Paddy Ryder, before being dropped late in the season.

Co-captain endures tough leadership initiation
Ollie Wines couldn't get going after his wakeboarding accident on Australia Day. Shoulder, leg and thumb injuries restricted him to 12 games in his first season as co-captain.

Overall rating: D+.

The Power failed in their goal to reach the finals, but unearthed some promising youngsters along the way.

 

Harro59

Team Captain
May 14, 2013
425
343
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I think we’ll find Dixon , Wines, Jonas ,Hartlett, Howard and R. Gray will have better years next year so that’ll be a good start . I think Marshall will step up a little higher on the good player ladder , I think Butters, Farrell, Ladhams and Rozee to improve their output , it’s that midfield and ruck mix we have to get right . An outside mid . I think Douglas can still develop as the intercept tall defender with Jonas and Clurey as the other tall defenders with McKenzie as back up we’re ok there , maybe a young key defender in the draft .
But I think our most pressing need is gun pacy skilful mids
Dixon and Wines will have better years no doubt.

Part of our problems with the inside 50s was the lack of forward structure. Dixon and Marshall up forward sorts this problem put.

Pacey skillful mids, yes very much so.
 

Brian McGee

Team Captain
Jan 20, 2015
366
830
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
What worked

Power future looks Rozee
All of three of Port's first-round selections from last year – Connor Rozee, Xavier Duursma and Zak Butters – made an impact at senior level.

Former skipper thrives in midfield return
Travis Boak was outstanding with an increased midfield role and without the burden of captaining the side as he had done for the past six seasons.

Houston, we have lift-off
Dan Houston's move from defence to midfield was an inspired choice, adding a quality ball user to a midfield full of inside bulls.


What Failed

Efficiency in forward half of the ground

The Power's delivery into their forward 50 and finishing was below par. Only three players kicked more than 20 goals for the season – Rozee (29), Robbie Gray (24) and Sam Gray (20).

Lycett/Ryder ruck combo
Star recruit Scott Lycett was better as a solo ruckman than sharing the duties with Paddy Ryder, before being dropped late in the season.

Co-captain endures tough leadership initiation
Ollie Wines couldn't get going after his wakeboarding accident on Australia Day. Shoulder, leg and thumb injuries restricted him to 12 games in his first season as co-captain.

Overall rating: D+.

The Power failed in their goal to reach the finals, but unearthed some promising youngsters along the way.

I know all of us think that this was a failed year, and we should have made the 8, but for the article to clearly state in the first line that we weren’t expected to make finals, then give us a D+ for finishing 1 game and 2 spots out of those finals is pretty funny. Surely based on their first line our season was a pass?
 

Schulzenfest

TheBrownDog
Feb 23, 2008
50,959
127,350
SA
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Toronto Raptors
I know all of us think that this was a failed year, and we should have made the 8, but for the article to clearly state in the first line that we weren’t expected to make finals, then give us a D+ for finishing 1 game and 2 spots out of those finals is pretty funny. Surely based on their first line our season was a pass?
Why?

Gold Coast were expected to finish bottom and they did. That doesn't make their season a pass. It means they were expected to perform poorly, and they did.
 

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