List Mgmt. Player List Management 2019-20

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MrChow

Club Legend
Jun 24, 2015
1,159
1,499
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Don’t agree we had a premiership winning list in the Hinkley era. We played well in the Pre-lim year, because we had a game plan of run and gun, that no other clubs had worked out yet. The players also had a belief that they were fitter than other teams.

the next year clubs worked us out. Western Bulldogs copied Our game plan and made it better ultimately winning a flag.

Our leadership has been suspect, our recruiting was average between The Boak and Wingard era. And many players failed like Hartlett who needed to become an elite mid.

we have had many games where if our leadership was good (irrespective of Ken) where we would have won games. We probably would have played finals most years.

many of our older players come from a losing culture and they can’t shake it. We r obviously rebuilding, and I prefer that at least the likes of Rozee, DBJ, Houston, etc know how to win 50% of the time, not like the older players.

Hinkley, I don’t mind, but his selection has been suspect, and I question whether he is inspiring the players as he did in the early years.

I do think Hinkley, KT and the recruiting team are building a team for the future, and although it is a bit painful, I’m ok where their club is heading...
 

Tibbs

Premiership Player
Sep 9, 2013
4,896
11,247
Brisbane
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Don’t agree we had a premiership winning list in the Hinkley era. We played well in the Pre-lim year, because we had a game plan of run and gun, that no other clubs had worked out yet. The players also had a belief that they were fitter than other teams.

the next year clubs worked us out. Western Bulldogs copied Our game plan and made it better ultimately winning a flag.

Our leadership has been suspect, our recruiting was average between The Boak and Wingard era. And many players failed like Hartlett who needed to become an elite mid.

we have had many games where if our leadership was good (irrespective of Ken) where we would have won games. We probably would have played finals most years.

many of our older players come from a losing culture and they can’t shake it. We r obviously rebuilding, and I prefer that at least the likes of Rozee, DBJ, Houston, etc know how to win 50% of the time, not like the older players.

Hinkley, I don’t mind, but his selection has been suspect, and I question whether he is inspiring the players as he did in the early years.

I do think Hinkley, KT and the recruiting team are building a team for the future, and although it is a bit painful, I’m ok where their club is heading...
Our list has been better than a few of the premiership teams' list in Hinkleys time, certainly the Bulldogs. The reasons we couldn't take the opportunity are as you subsequently describe...
Poor Leadership
Poor coaching
Poor selection policy
Poor game plan
Poor culture
And more
 

Interstater

Bruce Light fan club
Jun 7, 2015
3,815
7,332
SA
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
They have a bucket load of good players! But looking at the demographics, it's not too dissimilar IMO. They have more prime players, 17 vs 13, and they are of much better class. But Port has got more next-tier players, and some serious class in our younger players.

PORT:
7 "Older" players born before 1991 ...

Boak - A
Gray - A
Ebert - B - (injuries)
Hartlett - B - (injuries)
Rockliff - B
Dixon - B
Westhoff - C+ (inconsistency)
(GWS... 5)

13 "prime" players born '91-'97...

Lycett - B
Wines - C+ (disposal)
Jonas - B-
Watts - C+
Clurey - A
Motlop - C
DBJ - B
Amon - B-
Mayes - C
Burton - B+
McKenzie - B-
Sutcliffe - B-
Lienert - C+
(GWS...17)

11 Next tier of players born '98-'99

Houston - A-
Bonner - C+
SPP - C+
Marshall - B-
Ladhams - B
Hayes - B
Garner - B+
Drew - B
Farrell - B
Atley - B-
Patmore - ?
(GWS...7)

12 Younger players born '00-'01

Rozee - A
Duursma - A
Butters - B+
Woodcock - C
Cox - B-
Grundy - C
Frederick - C+
PLUS 5 new recruits
(GWS...11)
My concern is the lack of prime A graders coming through in the next 5 years.
Lets please not haggle about my rankings, I know they are very subjective.
 

Tibbs

Premiership Player
Sep 9, 2013
4,896
11,247
Brisbane
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
My concern is the lack of prime A graders coming through in the next 5 years.
Lets please not haggle about my rankings, I know they are very subjective.
Sure. And I agree, you need at least 5 elite (A grade) players to be on the mix. Forget our older guys, they will be gone soon. We really need some of our mid group to step up into the elite bracket. Otherwise it all hinges on the young guys and latest draftees to produce them all, which is years away.

So there is heaps of potential, but right now full of holes!
 

Tredrea_Wanganeen_Gray

Premium Gold
Apr 4, 2018
276
916
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Our biggest issue on the playing field has been composure, you could argue composure from our senior players and leaders.

rhats the difference between winning and losing the close games. We need more players steady and confident under pressure. Keep moving on those who ain’t.
Wines in the showdown last year to ice the game from 20m out but decides to kick around the corner to skew it on a right angle comes to mind.
 

TeeKray

Moderator
Mar 1, 2014
12,617
67,241
Perth
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Sure. And I agree, you need at least 5 elite (A grade) players to be on the mix. Forget our older guys, they will be gone soon. We really need some of our mid group to step up into the elite bracket. Otherwise it all hinges on the young guys and latest draftees to produce them all, which is years away.

So there is heaps of potential, but right now full of holes!
The problem is that we've traded out all of our mid tier group who had potential to be A grade players for us - Wingard, Polec, Wines (next year presumably). This means that we're relying on the much younger group including Houston, Rozee, Butters, Duursma to develop into A graders, and that could take some time.
 

Granny Duurs is Lovely

Team Captain
Jun 11, 2019
517
790
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
The problem is that we've traded out all of our mid tier group who had potential to be A grade players for us - Wingard, Polec, Wines (next year presumably). This means that we're relying on the much younger group including Houston, Rozee, Butters, Duursma to develop into A graders, and that could take some time.
Dont give up on Wines just yet. A lot can change in a year and if he can put together a career best year I'm not sure he'll want to disrupt that by moving clubs
 

Holden Hillbilly

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2004
12,107
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Copied from the main board - our oldies and youngies who could replace them:

Westhoff 33.2, Gray 31.9, Boak 31.5, Rockliff 29.10, Ebert 29.8, Harlett 29.4, Dixon 29.3

Butters 19.3, Duursma 19.5, Rozee 19.11, Farrell 20.9, Marshall 21.2, Drew 21.2, Ladhams 21.11, Powell-Pepper 21.11, Houston 22.6, Bonner 22.9, Burton 22.10

Plus 2019 draft


Mead
Bergman
Williams
Georgiades
Burgoyne
Pasini
 

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
63,211
91,722
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Port Adelaide
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The Mighty Blacks
Players on the 2020 list that were there on our list in the previous seasons;

2012 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas
2013 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey
2014 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon
2015 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon
2016 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon, Dixon, Bonner, Houston
2017 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon, Dixon, Bonner, Houston, SPP,
....... Marshall, Atley, Drew, Ladhams, Lienert

So in 2020 there will only be 19 off 45 players who have been at Port for 3 seasons or more. If that's not a rebuild then I don't know what is. if its not a rebuild then how do Cripps, Parker and the development coaches keep their jobs if our board, CEO and GM of Football think the head coach is doing a wonderful job??

Of the players we trade in or use free agency to add to the list this decade, they haven't lasted more than 5 seasons, apart from Ebert, who came home after only 4 seasons.

Players traded or drafted in after 2017 season ended and add 26 more to the current list
2017 Hayes, Patmore, Farrell, Garner, Rockliff, Motlop, Watts, McKenzie
2018 Rozee, Butters, Duursma, Grundy, Woodcock, Cox, Lycett, Burton, Mayes, Fredrick, Sutcliffe
2019 Bergman, Georgiadies, Williams, Mead, Pasini, Burgoyne, Buzza

Given our past history only 8-10 of the above 26 names added since October 2017 will still be on the 2025 list. If the players are better than average we might get to 13-14 still being on the list by then.

Of those 19 who have been at Alberton since before October 2017, maybe 6-7 will still be on the list come 2025.

I've said 2025 is probably our next window to win a flag. Might actually be peaking before 2025 with the 45 players we currently have, but that doesn't mean a flag. Probably still need to add another 4 or 5 top line players to win in 2025.
 

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PatientMental

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 17, 2010
16,139
26,875
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Players on the 2020 list that were there on our list in the previous seasons;

2012 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas
2013 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey
2014 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon
2015 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon
2016 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon, Dixon, Bonner, Houston
2017 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon, Dixon, Bonner, Houston, SPP,
....... Marshall, Atley, Drew, Ladhams, Lienert

So in 2020 there will only be 19 off 45 players who have been at Port for 3 seasons or more. If that's not a rebuild then I don't know what is. if its not a rebuild then how do Cripps, Parker and the development coaches keep their jobs if our board, CEO and GM of Football think the head coach is doing a wonderful job??

Of the players we trade in or use free agency to add to the list this decade, they haven't lasted more than 5 seasons, apart from Ebert, who came home after only 4 seasons.

Players traded or drafted in after 2017 season ended and add 26 more to the current list
2017 Hayes, Patmore, Farrell, Garner, Rockliff, Motlop, Watts, McKenzie
2018 Rozee, Butters, Duursma, Grundy, Woodcock, Cox, Lycett, Burton, Mayes, Fredrick, Sutcliffe
2019 Bergman, Georgiadies, Williams, Mead, Pasini, Burgoyne, Buzza

Given our past history only 8-10 of the above 26 names added since October 2017 will still be on the 2025 list. If the players are better than average we might get to 13-14 still being on the list by then.

Of those 19 who have been at Alberton since before October 2017, maybe 6-7 will still be on the list come 2025.

I've said 2025 is probably our next window to win a flag. Might actually be peaking before 2025 with the 45 players we currently have, but that doesn't mean a flag. Probably still need to add another 4 or 5 top line players to win in 2025.
It has been a full rebuild in the last few years without publicly saying so. Hence why there is literally no pressure internally towards Ken because they are giving him leeway to be garbage for a few more seasons until he burns the next lot of draftees leaving us in an inescapable hole.

The only reason why they haven't said so publicly because it would likely financially cripple the club more than it is by saying "hey remember how we looked close to a premiership? lol jk we're starting from scratch with the same potato."
 

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
63,211
91,722
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Port Adelaide
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Just further to my post a couple up the page, in December, in 2020 there will only be 19 off 45 players who have been at Port for 3 full seasons or more. Here are the other 26 added at end of 2017,2019,2020.

Players left on our list from the 2016 season onward. Bold equals players from other clubs.

2016 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon, Dixon, Bonner, Houston =13
2017 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon, Dixon, Bonner, Houston,
....... SPP, Marshall, Atley, Drew, Ladhams, Lienert = 19


2018 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon, Dixon, Bonner, Houston,
....... SPP, Marshall, Atley, Drew, Ladhams, Lienert
....... Motlop, Mckenzie, Rockliff, Watts, Hayes, Farrell, Garner, Patmore = 27

2019 Boak, Westhoff, Gray, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Wines, Clurey, DBJ, Amon, Dixon, Bonner, Houston,
....... SPP, Marshall, Atley, Drew, Ladhams, Lienert
....... Motlop, Mckenzie, Rockliff, Watts, Hayes, Farrell, Garner, Patmore
....... Burton, Lycett, Mayes, Suttcliffe, Rozee, Butters, Duursma, Grundy, Woodcox, Cox, Fredrick = 38

2020 we add Buzza, Bergman, Georgiades, Williams, Mead, Pisani, Burgoyne = 45
 

PJ Power

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 13, 2003
20,336
25,592
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I like Scharenberg as a footballer, even if Bucks has never seemed to. Good intercept marker. Would probably be competing for McKenzie for a spot if we got him, they play a similar role, and I reckon Scharenberg at his best plays it better. He'd cost fu** all too.
Agree, although it sounds like Bergman could develop into this role over time.
Bergman has a few characteristics that remind me of James Sicily.

Our next-gen prospect Jones also seems to play as a medium-tall defender and looks pretty good to me, a bit in the mould of Will Gould.

25 and under side:
Forward line:
F: Hayes.....Georgiades.....Williams

HF: Butters......Marshall......Mead

C: Amon.......Rozee.......Duursma

HB: Bergman........Clurey.......Burton

FB: DBJ.......Pasini......Bonner

R: Ladhams.....Wines.....Houston

Int: Powell-Pepper.......Drew......Farrell......Garner.....Patmore......Burgoyne......(Schofield, Jones)
 

MitchIn3D

Boot-Studder
Sep 11, 2014
1,100
3,845
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Agree, although it sounds like Bergman could develop into this role over time.
Bergman has a few characteristics that remind me of James Sicily.

Our next-gen prospect Jones also seems to play as a medium-tall defender and looks pretty good to me, a bit in the mould of Will Gould.

25 and under side:
Forward line:
F: Hayes.....Georgiades.....Williams

HF: Butters......Marshall......Mead

C: Amon.......Rozee.......Duursma

HB: Bergman........Clurey.......Burton

FB: DBJ.......Pasini......Bonner

R: Ladhams.....Wines.....Houston

Int: Powell-Pepper.......Drew......Farrell......Garner.....Patmore......Burgoyne......(Schofield, Jones)
When you look at lists like this you see exactly how well our list management team has been doing over the last 3-4 years. ~75% of a side built for the next 5 years.
 

Holden Hillbilly

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2004
12,107
14,351
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool, St. Pauls Old Scholars
Port have 16 players on top of Dixon who are out of contract after this season:

Port Adelaide

Charlie Dixon

Sam Powell-Pepper

Brad Ebert (restricted free agent)

Joe Atley

Wylie Buzza

Tobin Cox (rookie)

Willem Drew

Martin Frederick (rookie)

Riley Grundy (rookie)

Jarrod Lienert

Trent McKenzie

Jake Patmore

Jake Pasini

Cam Sutcliffe (rookie)

Jack Watts

Justin Westhoff

Boyd Woodcock (rookie)

 

RossFC

Moderator
May 23, 2012
55,936
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Alberton Oval
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Port have 16 players on top of Dixon who are out of contract after this season:

Port Adelaide

Charlie Dixon

Sam Powell-Pepper

Brad Ebert (restricted free agent)

Joe Atley

Wylie Buzza

Tobin Cox (rookie)

Willem Drew

Martin Frederick (rookie)

Riley Grundy (rookie)

Jarrod Lienert

Trent McKenzie

Jake Patmore

Jake Pasini

Cam Sutcliffe (rookie)

Jack Watts

Justin Westhoff

Boyd Woodcock (rookie)

I'm going to feel sorry for some of the guys that get delisted this season. Good performances in a few scratch matches and training sessions are the difference between staying or leaving for them.
 

philthy05

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2008
23,100
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adelaide
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Port have 16 players on top of Dixon who are out of contract after this season:

Port Adelaide

Charlie Dixon - he will obviously sign

Sam Powell-Pepper - like to sign him. Could be courted by other clubs. Necessary to keep for his point of difference.

Brad Ebert (restricted free agent) - 1 year contract. Could retire due to concerns about concussions.

Joe Atley - likely gone. I would like to keep him especially if wines leaves and see if his body gets right but I predict he’s gone.

Wylie Buzza - delist

Tobin Cox (rookie) - potential delist depending on roster space. I personally don’t see a need for him

Willem Drew - sign urgently. Injuries are a huge problem right now but he’s the next inside mid in line after wines and rocky and that’s an issue

Martin Frederick (rookie) - delist if need the roster space

Riley Grundy (rookie) - sign urgently. Only developing defender with height and made very good strides earlier than I thought he would.

Jarrod Lienert - sign. Great depth

Trent McKenzie - sign. Earned a moderate pay rise.

Jake Patmore - sign. Times running out for him to show what he has though.

Jake Pasini - sign. I thought he was a rookie listed player?

Cam Sutcliffe (rookie) - my opinion. Delist. That he got picked over quite a few others this year tells me we won’t delist him.

Jack Watts - sign

Justin Westhoff - ? Hard to say. Depends on how the rest of the year plays out. Could retire or might go around 1 more year.

Boyd Woodcock (rookie) - preferably sign but wouldn’t be a priority if we needed list space.


Possible trade - Wines
 

Andre

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 3, 2002
25,285
30,046
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Port have 16 players on top of Dixon who are out of contract after this season:

Port Adelaide

Charlie Dixon

Sam Powell-Pepper

Brad Ebert (restricted free agent)

Joe Atley

Wylie Buzza

Tobin Cox (rookie)

Willem Drew

Martin Frederick (rookie)

Riley Grundy (rookie)

Jarrod Lienert

Trent McKenzie

Jake Patmore

Jake Pasini

Cam Sutcliffe (rookie)

Jack Watts

Justin Westhoff

Boyd Woodcock (rookie)

I hope we aren't keeping Sutcliffe around for another year, but with Ken still here most likely, then he probably will.
My cuts off the main list (or getting games as a rookie) would be Sutcliffe, Buzza, Drew (can't stay on the park for an extended run unfortunately), Westhoff and Ebert. The last two controversial, but if we don't want all our senior players going at once then hard choices need to be made.
 

Holden Hillbilly

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2004
12,107
14,351
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool, St. Pauls Old Scholars
Port have 16 players on top of Dixon who are out of contract after this season:

Port Adelaide

Charlie Dixon - he will obviously sign

Sam Powell-Pepper - like to sign him. Could be courted by other clubs. Necessary to keep for his point of difference.

Brad Ebert (restricted free agent) - 1 year contract. Could retire due to concerns about concussions.

Joe Atley - likely gone. I would like to keep him especially if wines leaves and see if his body gets right but I predict he’s gone.

Wylie Buzza - delist

Tobin Cox (rookie) - potential delist depending on roster space. I personally don’t see a need for him

Willem Drew - sign urgently. Injuries are a huge problem right now but he’s the next inside mid in line after wines and rocky and that’s an issue

Martin Frederick (rookie) - delist if need the roster space

Riley Grundy (rookie) - sign urgently. Only developing defender with height and made very good strides earlier than I thought he would.

Jarrod Lienert - sign. Great depth

Trent McKenzie - sign. Earned a moderate pay rise.

Jake Patmore - sign. Times running out for him to show what he has though.

Jake Pasini - sign. I thought he was a rookie listed player?

Cam Sutcliffe (rookie) - my opinion. Delist. That he got picked over quite a few others this year tells me we won’t delist him.

Jack Watts - sign

Justin Westhoff - ? Hard to say. Depends on how the rest of the year plays out. Could retire or might go around 1 more year.

Boyd Woodcock (rookie) - preferably sign but wouldn’t be a priority if we needed list space.


Possible trade - Wines
If list are cut to 40 (from 44) and we want to draft 4 new players then 8 will have to be cut.
 

Hong-Kong Phooey

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 22, 2011
7,489
8,010
i have no idea
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Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Man United
If we need to remove 8 from list then id do the below

Re-sign
Charlie Dixon
Sam Powell-Pepper
Willem Drew
Jarrod Lienert
Trent McKenzie
Jack Watts
Riley Grundy
Jake Pasini
Boyd Woodcock

Retire/Delist/ seek trade
Joe Atley
Wylie Buzza
Cam Sutcliffe
Justin Westhoff
Martin Frederick
Tobin Cox
Jake Patmore
Brad Ebert (forced retirement due to head knocks)
 
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