Players that didn't win a flag while being part of winning sides/dynasties.

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neogh

neogh

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Apr 17, 2015
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This had been an interesting topic for a while, probably it is more challanging than find than the line up of best players who never won a flag (or played in a Grand Final). Saw a similar thread but nearly 14 years ago so like to resurface it.

So this is a team of constant players that had never won a flag whilst part of the squad that were Premiers, but missed out from injuries, suspensions or dropped for the big dance.

Will like any other names to the side here, preferably from the 60s and before.
 
Neville Crow of Richmond would be 1st ruck id reckon - missed 67 flag with Rich - 4 weeks in the 2nd semi for striking John Nicholls of Carlton

Just the mention of Frank Tuck getting 4 weeks and missing the final series - which other players and top players has that happened to - and possibly changed the course of events

Well John Coleman is the obvious one - champion FF - 4 weeks in last match of year 1951 -

Another on is the great Ron Barassi of Melb - 1963 - 2nd last game of H/A against Rich - Barassi of Melb got 4 weeks for "hitting " that little stager of Rich - Roger Dean - Dean was a good player - but he was an antagonistic little so and so- and every opposition team wanted to flatten him . Anyhow he missed the whole final series - and ive heard him say - that if he had played - the Dees would have won the flag - he claimed they had Geel ( premiers ) measure - being that they only met once during the year - and the Demons won by 7 goals

One thing i reckon they had right in the 1960s - if you were found guilty of striking/hitting - then you allways got 4 weeks - that was the standard penalty - none of this grading bulldust
 

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Goggin Our Best said:
Anyhow he missed the whole final series - and ive heard him say - that if he had played - the Dees would have won the flag - he claimed they had Geel ( premiers ) measure - being that they only met once during the year - and the Demons won by 7 goals
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That's like Scarlett's claim that we would have won at least 1 more flag with GAJ - I'd take it with a grain of biased salt.
 
iameviljez said:
That's like Scarlett's claim that we would have won at least 1 more flag with GAJ - I'd take it with a grain of biased salt.
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Yes but Barassi was a champion player and was easily their number 1 - best player

Demons won the flag in 64 - the following year - Barassi goes to Carl as Capt/Coach - in that year 65 - the Demons without Ron B - win their 1st 8 games - and then totally crash - and miss the finals - and were totally irrelevant for the remainder of the 1960s
 
Good thread.

In the vein of Maxfield, Collingwood 2010 had five players that had over 200 games experience, started 2010 in their first choice team, had played in either or both of the 2002 and 2003 Grand Finals and found themselves missing out in Prestigiacomo, O’Bree, Lockyer, Fraser and Davis*. Obviously the dynasty definition doesn’t extend to the team in the same way McLaren for instance scrapes into the OP’s side but I’d argue all were unlucky given over the course of the previous eight years they’d contributed significantly to Collingwood’s participation in two grand finals and four preliminary finals.

Matthew Egan and Modra probably the benchmark for dominant seasons only to miss out.

I personally would entertain Gaff over Priddis in the OP’s team as well. In terms of contribution to West Coast in the respective premiership year Gaff far outstrips Priddis
 
Most games for Rich in 2017, 19 & 20 without playing in a winning Grand Final.

  • Stack, Sydney 26
  • Higgins, Jack 23
  • Chol, Mabior 20
  • Menadue, Connor 15
  • Markov, Oleg 15
  • Ross, Jack 14
  • Aarts, Jake 14
Fewest games but won a flag: Jacob Townsend, 6

Hawthorn 2013, 14, 15, most games, no flag
  • Ceglar, Jonathon 31
  • Hartung, Billy 27
  • Litherland, Angus 19
  • Whitecross, Brendan 16
  • Savage, Shane 15
  • Cheney, Kyle 13
  • Anderson, Jed 10
Fewest: James Frawley, 18

Geelong 2007, 2009, 2011, most games, no flag:
  • Egan, Matthew 22
  • Johnson, David 20
  • Menzel, Daniel 18
  • Mumford, Shane 18
  • Tenace, Kane 14
  • Hunt, Taylor 13
  • Hogan, Simon 11
  • Vardy, Nathan 9
  • Gamble, Ryan 8
  • Gillies, Tom 8
Fewest: Steven King, 6
 
Generalissimo said:
Poor Matthew Egan. Played every H&A game in 2007, then Jonno Brown stands on his foot and that's that.

People forget what a dead set gun Egan was.
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Can't be many other All-Australians in premiership seasons without flags to their names.
 
Greg Tate played for Essendon from 1947-1951 (joining the year after the Bombers' 1946 flag) and Essendon made the Grand Final ever year during his tenure, but despite being a regular senior player did not play in any premiership teams. He played in the beaten 1947 and 1951 GF teams, and missed the premiership winning 1949 and 1950 Grand Finals through injury, the latter after playing every other game that season. Tate also missed out playing in the drawn and replay (Essendon lost) Grand Finals in 1948.

More recently, Ashley Sampi and Travis Gaspar were in the West Coast Eagles 2005 finals series, which included the 4-point Grand Final loss to the Sydney Swans. This meant they missed the finals series of their WAFL team the South Fremantle Bulldogs (where they were both eligible to play) which culminated in a Grand Final victory over Claremont. The next year, Sampi and Gaspar again alternated between West Coast and South Fremantle, but this time they were not part of the Eagles' 2006 finals campaign, and instead played for South Fremantle in the WAFL finals. West Coast again made the Grand Final, defeating the Sydney Swans in a thriller, but South Fremantle's Grand Final in which both Sampi and Gaspar played turned into a nightmare against Subiaco, the Lions thrashing the Bulldogs by 83-points on a very hot (33 degree) afternoon in Perth.

As rookies several years earlier, Sampi and Gaspar had played in South Fremantle's 2001 Grand Final team against East Perth Royals, which at this stage was host club for the West Coast Eagles. How did that go? East Perth kept South Fremantle goal-less after half time on a wet afternoon and won by 82-points.
 

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Rene Kink - Played in 6 for a draw and 5 losses.

Collingwood - 1977 - draw and loss
Collingwood - 1979 - loss
Collingwood - 1980 - loss
Collingwood - 1981 - loss
Essendon - 1983 - loss

He was also at Essendon in 1984 and 1985 when they went back to back and didn't play in either.
 
Generalissimo said:
Poor Matthew Egan. Played every H&A game in 2007, then Jonno Brown stands on his foot and that's that.

People forget what a dead set gun Egan was.
Click to expand...

Was coming in here to mention Egan, heart-breaking how it ended his career. 24 years old, All-Australian and after ~60 games had more to give. Sad for footy but really sad for the Cats as well. That said, we may not have grabbed Harry Taylor in the draft, so who knows how things would've panned out longer term.
 
There should be an award for players in this situation.

How about the Pete Best Trophy named after the Beatles original drummer who was replaced in the band by session drummer Ringo Starr in 1962, right before the Beatles hit it big?

Outside of the AFL/VFL and in the high level state leagues the SANFL, WAFL and VFA/VFL, there are some players definitely deserving of a Pete Best Trophy such as:

Ralph Sewer - Ralph Sewer holds some unusual records in a 400 plus game SANFL career for Woodville and Glenelg from 1969-1990. He is one of very few players to play for 4 decades, and was a grandfather when he finished his career in 1990. Starting with Woodville where premierships, grand finals and even finals were but a distant dream for the struggling Warriors, Sewer crossed to the more successful team the Glenelg Tigers at the end of 1980 and played in runner up teams for the Tigers in 1981 and 1982. After four years at Glenelg, Sewer returned to Woodville after the 1984 season. In 1985, Glenelg won the premiership, while Woodville finished last. After six consecutive wooden spoons from 1980-1985, Woodville soared up the ladder and made the finals in 1986. However, the Warriors' premiership ambitions ended in the preliminary final. Who eliminated Woodville? Glenelg, who went on to win back to back premierships! Woodville made the finals again in 1987, but only got as far as the Elimination Final where they were beaten. Guess who by? The Tigers.

Derek Chadwick - Derek Chadwick had a long career for WAFL club the East Perth Royals from 1958-1972. In his first season in 1958 he was a rookie who didn't make the powerful Royals' team, and the next year he missed the East Perth 1959 premiership team through illness. Chadwick then played for losing East Perth Grand Final teams in 1960, 1961, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969 and 1971, the Royals not winning one flag during this time. In 1972 the now veteran Chadwick played his last season, and missed the finals through injury, East Perth going on to beat Claremont in a close Grand Final.

Gavin Conville - A member of the Geelong Falcons 1994 squad that lost the VSFL Under 18 Grand Final to the Northern Knights, Conville went to SANFL club Woodville-West Torrens Eagles, arriving after the Eagles played in consecutive Grand Finals in 1993 (premiers) and 1994 (runner up). After six years out of the Grand Final the Eagles made it back in 2000 and lost to Central Districts, the Bulldogs again beating the Eagles in 2001. In 2004, the Eagles again played the Bulldogs and were crushed by 125 points. The Eagles were more competitive in the 2005 Grand Final against Central Districts, but the Bulldogs still won with plenty to spare by 28 points. Conville played in all four Grand Final defeats to the Bulldogs in 2000, 2001, 2004 and 2005, but in 2006 when the Eagles finally turned the tables on the Bulldogs and thrashed them in the Grand Final, Conville missed the game through injury. By the time the Eagles made (and won) their next Grand Final in 2011, a thrilling upset over Centrals, Conville had long since retired.

There must be some VFA/VFL players who would be worthy winners of Pete Best Trophies.
 
neogh said:
View attachment 961653

This had been an interesting topic for a while, probably it is more challanging than find than the line up of best players who never won a flag (or played in a Grand Final). Saw a similar thread but nearly 14 years ago so like to resurface it.

So this is a team of constant players that had never won a flag whilst part of the squad that were Premiers, but missed out from injuries, suspensions or dropped for the big dance.

Will like any other names to the side here, preferably from the 60s and before.
Click to expand...

Top effort compiling this, mate. One correction: The correct spelling is Graham Melrose, not Graeme Melrose.
 
Goggin Our Best said:
Yes but Barassi was a champion player and was easily their number 1 - best player

Demons won the flag in 64 - the following year - Barassi goes to Carl as Capt/Coach - in that year 65 - the Demons without Ron B - win their 1st 8 games - and then totally crash - and miss the finals - and were totally irrelevant for the remainder of the 1960s
Click to expand...

And not only the 1960s!
 
emuboy said:
There should be an award for players in this situation.

How about the Pete Best Trophy named after the Beatles original drummer who was replaced in the band by session drummer Ringo Starr in 1962, right before the Beatles hit it big?

Outside of the AFL/VFL and in the high level state leagues the SANFL, WAFL and VFA/VFL, there are some players definitely deserving of a Pete Best Trophy such as:

Ralph Sewer - Ralph Sewer holds some unusual records in a 400 plus game SANFL career for Woodville and Glenelg from 1969-1990. He is one of very few players to play for 4 decades, and was a grandfather when he finished his career in 1990. Starting with Woodville where premierships, grand finals and even finals were but a distant dream for the struggling Warriors, Sewer crossed to the more successful team the Glenelg Tigers at the end of 1980 and played in runner up teams for the Tigers in 1981 and 1982. After four years at Glenelg, Sewer returned to Woodville after the 1984 season. In 1985, Glenelg won the premiership, while Woodville finished last. After six consecutive wooden spoons from 1980-1985, Woodville soared up the ladder and made the finals in 1986. However, the Warriors' premiership ambitions ended in the preliminary final. Who eliminated Woodville? Glenelg, who went on to win back to back premierships! Woodville made the finals again in 1987, but only got as far as the Elimination Final where they were beaten. Guess who by? The Tigers.

Derek Chadwick - Derek Chadwick had a long career for WAFL club the East Perth Royals from 1958-1972. In his first season in 1958 he was a rookie who didn't make the powerful Royals' team, and the next year he missed the East Perth 1959 premiership team through illness. Chadwick then played for losing East Perth Grand Final teams in 1960, 1961, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969 and 1971, the Royals not winning one flag during this time. In 1972 the now veteran Chadwick played his last season, and missed the finals through injury, East Perth going on to beat Claremont in a close Grand Final.

Gavin Conville - A member of the Geelong Falcons 1994 squad that lost the VSFL Under 18 Grand Final to the Northern Knights, Conville went to SANFL club Woodville-West Torrens Eagles, arriving after the Eagles played in consecutive Grand Finals in 1993 (premiers) and 1994 (runner up). After six years out of the Grand Final the Eagles made it back in 2000 and lost to Central Districts, the Bulldogs again beating the Eagles in 2001. In 2004, the Eagles again played the Bulldogs and were crushed by 125 points. The Eagles were more competitive in the 2005 Grand Final against Central Districts, but the Bulldogs still won with plenty to spare by 28 points. Conville played in all four Grand Final defeats to the Bulldogs in 2000, 2001, 2004 and 2005, but in 2006 when the Eagles finally turned the tables on the Bulldogs and thrashed them in the Grand Final, Conville missed the game through injury. By the time the Eagles made (and won) their next Grand Final in 2011, a thrilling upset over Centrals, Conville had long since retired.

There must be some VFA/VFL players who would be worthy winners of Pete Best Trophies.
Click to expand...

Off-topic, but I worked for an accounting professor at USQ Toowoomba called Pete Best, lovely fellow. We used to always joke that he was the real Pete Best - his age fitted perfectly. He used to love the joke.
 
ThePope said:
Most games for Rich in 2017, 19 & 20 without playing in a winning Grand Final.

  • Stack, Sydney 26
  • Higgins, Jack 23
  • Chol, Mabior 20
  • Menadue, Connor 15
  • Markov, Oleg 15
  • Ross, Jack 14
  • Aarts, Jake 14
Fewest games but won a flag: Jacob Townsend, 6

Hawthorn 2013, 14, 15, most games, no flag
  • Ceglar, Jonathon 31
  • Hartung, Billy 27
  • Litherland, Angus 19
  • Whitecross, Brendan 16
  • Savage, Shane 15
  • Cheney, Kyle 13
  • Anderson, Jed 10
Fewest: James Frawley, 18

Geelong 2007, 2009, 2011, most games, no flag:
  • Egan, Matthew 22
  • Johnson, David 20
  • Menzel, Daniel 18
  • Mumford, Shane 18
  • Tenace, Kane 14
  • Hunt, Taylor 13
  • Hogan, Simon 11
  • Vardy, Nathan 9
  • Gamble, Ryan 8
  • Gillies, Tom 8
Fewest: Steven King, 6
Click to expand...
Whitecross incredibly unlucky. Did his ACL in the last qtr of the prelim 2013 probably at the height of his career. Was easily best 22 as a defensive forward and by the time he got back had become a depth option and subsequently missed out completely despite being a regular senior player up till that point.
 
Nic Naitanui is approaching the twilight of his career now, and would be getting close to being inducted as a member of the Pete Best Club.

The Eagles side that won the 2006 premiership wasn't an old side and was expected to be a flag contender for some years after, but by 2008 the year Naitanui was drafted to the Eagles they had fallen to second last, and last by 2010. West Coast improved in the early 2010s and made the 2015 GF of which Naitanui was part of, only to be thrashed by Hawthorn. After two inconsistent seasons by the Eagles in 2016 and 2017 in which Naitanui battled serious injuries, West Coast made and won the GF in 2018 but he was not part of the premiership team, suffering a knee injury late in the year. There were hopes that he could play in an Eagles flag in following years but like 12 years earlier West Coast have been unable to build on their success and have fallen away. At WAFL level, Naitanui played in the 2008 Swan Districts GF team that was thrashed by Subiaco, but due to not playing enough Swans games during the 2010 season he was unable to represent them in the GF that season, which they won, their last flag to date.

Unless Naitanui changes clubs to one that is a premiership contender in the last few years of his career, he will likely exit the AFL without a flag despite being close on a number of occasions.
 
Nathan Jones from Melbourne.
 
Josh Francou of Port Adelaide

Top 3 Brownlow finishes in 2001-02, but missed most of 2003 and all of premiership year 2004 with knee injuries
 
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