Players told not to read Bigfooty & other fan websites - Herald Sun

[JeffDunne]

Did you wake up this morning with both barrels loaded? You're on fire (so to speak)

 

[sydney eagle]

Well, I don't know about that.

The lowest common denominatior on BigFooty is pretty big. I consider myself to be fairly distinct from that rabble.

Of course you do ! But then everyone else thinks that THEY are in that position as well !

 

[tess]

Did you wake up this morning with both barrels loaded? You're on fire (so to speak)

I'm in holiday mode OK.....

 

[bigpapagman]

i think the winners out of this are the blokes who had their post quoted in the herald sun in the red boxes.

taken straight from the tigers board.

 

[clobba]

Of course you do ! But then everyone else thinks that THEY are in that position as well !

LMAO spot on

 

[tando]

Spot On, The Jornos jobs might be in danger, if the public have a thought that they didnt think up.

 

[Art Corvelay]

This is getting laughable now, 2 articles in 2 days? Considering the HUN allows readers to post comments about articles, does this mean they will be blocking this functionality in an attempt to 'shield' players from harsh comments?

Some of the stuff on there is no better then on here

 

[ozasismick]

Considering the HUN allows readers to post comments about articles, does this mean they will be blocking this functionality in an attempt to 'shield' players from harsh comments?

Of course not, don't be silly.

Being an avid cyclist, whenever readers comments are invited on a cycling related story, you would be amazed by the amount of small minded comments made against cyclists. An example of which from the Herald Sun's own comments section below;

Roads are for cars not for bikes. We pay rego to drive on them and cyclist nothing. Stop whining and if you dont like being hit by cars and abused use a track!
Posted by: dan of melb 5:10pm May 08, 2008

(note: you pay rego for government funded TAC, not to maintain the roads)

and...

I hope the bike riders where riding single file as they should be by law ?
Posted by: Brian Smith of lysterfield 5:16pm May 08, 2008
Comment 10 of 85
(note: this is not the law, and I've left the spelling as is.., so don't shoot me down)

Ok, not footy related, but just an example of a couple of comments, there are many more in that particular thread (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/comments/0,22023,23665712-661,00.html). And these comments sections on H-S are supposed to be moderated. I can only guess the moderator lets these slip through however to promote a bit of argument.

Talk about double standards.

 

[Feerits Elf]

THE mother of an AFL player with depression last night lashed out at the viciousness of internet fan forums.

More rhetoric from Robinson. In yesterday’s piece we had “vicious player appraisals”, “cyber bullying”, “big brother blogging”, “ritually attack players”, “scathing critiques” and “alarming cases of bullying bringing on forms of depression and even attempted suicide”.

"Donna", the mum of a player at a Melbourne-based club, believes the forums contribute to her son's depression.

Straight factual error there from Robinson. Rosemary Staker’s son Brent plays for a Perth-based club.

The effect on the player was extreme, she said, and the effect on the parents "cuts straight to the core".

"There's nothing you can do about it," Donna said.

Fear not, Donna. Robinson and the Hun have a cunning plan.

"It's painful for everyone.

"He goes through periods where he has highs and lows and when he gets slandered on this website, they use his full name and it's obviously brutal.

"It certainly contributes to him having a real low that week.

"Then he starts to feel: 'Am I good enough to be here, what do I have to do, I'm trying my guts out, everyone thinks I'm hopeless, I won't be selected'.

Time for some straight talking about your lad, Donna. If a bit of criticism on an internet forum knocks him for six rather than spurring him on to better performances – he doesn’t have the inner drive to make it as an AFL footballer, and probably doesn’t deserve to be there.

"As a parent your heart goes out to your own child, as it does to the other players slandered, and you just feel so futile. You can't do anything.

It’s OK Donna, Robinson and the Hun will carry the torch for you and all the other enervated parents of AFL footballers. You have suffered in silence for far too long!

Note the less-than-subtle introduction of the word "slander" (refer my post of yesterday about driving the issue to set up a submission to government for clarification/extension of defamation laws with respect to online publications). I suspect that it's not a word that Donna would ordinarily use. I suggest that Robinson continually used the word when questioning Donna (How do you feel about the slander of your son? What effect has the slander by these websites had on you as a mother? It's very slanderous, isn't it? Oh yes, I'd love a cuppa thank you - white and two slanders.) Donna would have felt compelled into using the word in her responses which were then quoted, notwithstanding that she does not know what the word means.

"It doesn't matter how much you say and try to support them and encourage them, and say: 'Don't read them', there's just nothing you can do."

You can only counsel your son as best you can, Donna. If he is silly enough to scratch that itch and read those “scathing critiques” against your best advice, tell him to stop crying to his mama. If he makes his bed, let him lie in it.

The AFL Players' Association yesterday in the Herald Sun said blogging by supporters was "cyber bullying".

We know; we heard from Ms Grange yesterday. We called bullshit on her then, and we call bullshit on her now.

Clubs also feared the vicious appraisals of their players could lead to forms of depression.

Several clubs revealed they had warned some of their players to boycott the websites.

Interesting use of the word “boycott” there by Robinson. A boycott is not mere abstention; it is the combined abstention by a group from dealing with a person or entity as a means of intimidation or coercion. The clubs’ interests are protected if their players simply don’t read websites of this type. It is the Hun that is seeking to intimidate or coerce in this instance. Freudian slip, Robbo?

Player managers also confirmed yesterday their players had struggled to deal with the attacks.

Of course they did. Player managers would be happy to see their clients play out their careers completely oblivious to any criticism that might affect their performances, their market value and (predictably) the manager’s proportionate fee. Player ignorance is managerial bliss. Does this sentence really add anything to the copy, Robbo? Or is it simply consistent with your predetermined agenda?

Donna said last night her son's club and coach were aware of her son's depression and that he was the subject of vitriol on websites.

"It's fine for people to say 'harden up', or 'toughen up', but at the end of the day they are still very vulnerable kids trying to learn how to play footy at an elite level," she said.

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!

I know this might shock you, Donna, but all but the most junior rookies (who are generally given a lot of latitude on this and other forums) are adults. Legally permitted to drink, buy cigarettes and die for their country. If they commit a crime, they are charged and tried as adults.

While the “very vulnerable kids” you so readily seek to protect have been winning the accolades of all and sundry with their exploits in junior leagues, being earmarked as future champions of the AFL, the rest of us having been working, studying, travelling, drinking, smoking, pill dropping, fighting, ____ing, falling in love and having our hearts broken. We have been going out into the wider world and meeting a whole host of people from outside our ordinary social circles, and from all walks of life. We have been mocked, heckled, criticised, bashed and jailed. Many of us have played Australian Rules football, some to AFL level, and have had our performances assessed and critiqued from the coach down to the lady who works at the hotdog stand.

And we have come through it, we have gained strength and will and desire and drive from it, all the while learning about ourselves and our place in the world, not to mention in Australian society. We have re-evaluated our relationships with our friends, parents and loved ones and seen them from a new perspective. We have grown, socially, emotionally and philosophically. We have become accountable for our performances in a number of spheres. In short, we have become independent young men and women.

If turning 18 wasn’t enough to make these young boys into men, perhaps coming out from behind mother’s apron and taking criticism like a man might be just the kick up the arse they need.

"They are going to make mistakes and they don't need misinformed, anonymous 'supporters' (to) slander them when half the time the supporters that write about them haven't been to the game, and they don't know the instructions that have been given to these players.

The implication being that if supporters went to the game, they would know the instructions given to players? Supporters can form part of the quarter-time and three-quarter-time huddles now? I must have missed that memo.

And it’s not slander if it’s true, Donna.

"Yet, they (hide) behind their anonymity and make out they are bigger than Ben Hur, and think they can say whatever they like.

Welcome to the interwebz, kthxbai.

The reason for anonymity has already been discussed, Donna. Open the Herald-Sun sometime and have a look at the number of times an article on the trial of a suspected murderer or on outlaw motorcycle gangs appears without a by-line. Then ask yourself why.

"That's the frustrating and hurtful part of it.

"And these kids, be they 18, 19, 21 or 22, don't have a leg to stand on.

I don’t suppose they could drink a cup of cement, extract the digit and play better football, as they are paid to do? That sure would answer the critics.

"Some players can do no wrong and escape everything, which is fantastic for them and that's the way it should be, but for others, they just hone in on them.

"Then it just seems to be a never-ending bandwagon."

A teensy little contradiction there, Donna. Players that play well escape criticism “and that’s the way it should be”? In that case, it would stand to reason that those that perform poorly should not escape criticism. Or are you having a bit each way?

Donna said she knew of parents who joined blogs to dispute and object to comments made about their sons.

Good for them. If they are able to overcome their inherent bias in favour of their sons, they might be able to see that those comments are either largely warranted or made facetiously about what are public figures to get a rise out of supporters of other teams. I wouldn’t bet the farm, though.

She said she had, as recently as the weekend, spoken to parents of other players about the websites.

And the outcome of those discussions was …? Or is this just another nothing sentence to stretch out the column centimetres of another nothing story?

Most disturbing, according to the AFLPA's Pippa Grange, was that player identities were being taken and comments being posted under that player's name.

"They get obviously quite upset about that," Grange said.

So now it’s graduated to identity theft, has it? Soon an imposter posing as Enrico Misso will be confessing to the Beaumont abduction, will he? Heavens above. These interwebz need to be outlawed before it's too late.

ANYONE with personal problems can call Lifeline on 131 114; Victorian Statewide Suicide Helpline on 1300 651 251; or Mensline Australia on 1300 789 978.

After reading Robbo’s tripe for two days in a row, I could do with a bit of telephone counselling myself.

 

[morgoth]

Maybe if the clubs were honest about what was going on with injuries, game plans etc we would be better informed and not have to second guess and jump to assumptions etc.

But of course, it is all our fault.

 

[btdg]

As someone who has suffered from depression - I can see how reading negative comments on blogs might contribute, and could possibly be a trigger for bouts of depression. However, I can't see it being a major factor.

Even that article itself highlighted: "He goes through periods where he has highs and lows and when he gets slandered on this website, they use his full name and it's obviously brutal.
"It certainly contributes to him having a real low that week."

Basically, the articles aren't causing the depression, they just make the lows feel worse.

In my experience, there generally aren't identifiable causes to what makes you swing high and low when you are depressed. Stress and anxiety obviously contribute, but I've never found it to be a direct contribution - when I'm stressed, I'm often 'up', and its only after the stress ends that I crash.

The real issue is that footballers undertake a highly stressful job. Not from media or forum pressure, but because their job is such that they are under constant pressure to perform. Every week is like a performance evaluation for a normal person; they are answerable to their coach, their team-mates, their fans, and the media after every game. If they aren't performing, they know all about it, have to watch match reviews and talk to the coach and face their team-mates - these are the factors that elevate stress and anxiety. For those footballers unfortunate enough to suffer from depression, they are increasing the risk by remaining in employment that is likely to heighten that depression.

When footballers 'crash', I imagine that (as in my experience), it feels like the whole world has gone to s**t, and that they are worthless. But it does that regardless of Bigfooty and blog posts. When depressed, they might read the negative posts and it contributes to their spiral; when 'up' they might focus more on the positve ones and it boosts their ego. But the posts themselves aren't necessarily the cause.

Basically, I don't believe that footy forums and blogs can cause depression, or even significantly worsten it. Players who are vulnerable set themselves up to crash by entering into employment that is high-stress and high-anxiety by nature. The answer - not to attack the forums and blogs, but to find ways to modify the football culture to reduce that stress. The emotional side of football is fundamental to team success anyway; if anything, this reflects a failing of the clubs to adequately look after their most valuable assets.

 

[Qsaint]

(note: you pay rego for government funded TAC, not to maintain the roads)

and...

[.

You do both, the insurance part goes to TAC who act like an insurance company and have Billions under management they paid out 700 million last year but interestingly funded at least 100 million in road safety improvements, as well as adverts and gifting money to the AFL.
Anyway the other component of rego goes into Vic Roads as I think does infringements, but it doesn't by any stretch cover their expenditure

 

[Doctor Jolly]

That piece clearly refers to the rest of you, not me.

Yes, you direct your personal insults to other posters, not players.

 

[Sanks]

Maybe if the clubs were honest about what was going on with injuries, game plans etc we would be better informed and not have to second guess and jump to assumptions etc.

Maybe if we had some decent football journalists and not a bunch of posing media personality wannabes we would actually enjoy reading the sport section of the paper again and not be completely cynical about the bunch of tools writing the claptrap.

 

[Borgsta]

Can someone give me an example of where a players identity has been stolen and people believe it is them.

 

[tess]

YOU EXIST ONLY BECAUSE THE FANS FOLLOW THE GAME NOT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING YOU DO FOR THE GAME!!

This is a quote from a poster on another forum, a rather exclusive forum that few here would bother with when we discussed this topic. I think it explains our position in the game 100%, without us there is NO GAME/INDUSTRY.

 

[Jabso]

Robbo will be on the Run Home with Leach, so I guess they'll talk about his articles. With Robbo and Leach on you can be sure they'll be balanced and let others have their say. There will be no 'dismissals of opinion and they'll be very broad minded.

 

[Beloved]

its easy for the gutless to slag players off from behind their keyboards, the reality is they are cowards. lf l was a player l wouldn't want to read the drivel some write on these sites, and it is only some who do it.

Second that, well said.

 

[m0nty]

Does anybody else find it suspicious that these articles appear only days after Robinson got slagged off by a bunch of nasty questions in a live Web chat about his Essendon trade story?

 

[MacMum]

I also think it is up to the moderators to monitor the postings far more diligently.......I can only go by my own board, but on there, if we get personal or get nasty about a player or even each other, we are told to basically keep it civil or are red carded.......I have noticed some terrible postings on some boards, and have wondered why they were allowed.......There really isn't any need to say nasty stuff.....Its not hard to say player X seems to be down on form at the moment......the words useless, hopeless, dud, moron etc when referring to a player should definately be not allowed.......as I said.....The Mods could do their job a lot better on this issue I think...Ultimately it is they who let the posts go through...

 

[Jabso]

MacMum it depends on what you think is allowable or over the top.

If we're talking about a player in their team board and someone posts "let's not kid ourselves he is a hack he should be gone" then as a player that would upset him but as a mod I'm not going to delete it just because he has a negative opinion just like Mark Fine isn't going to stop a talkback caller bagging Raph Clarke on the radio. However if a poster bags a player I do try to get them to be constuctive because it fires up other more positive supporters and posters can get into stupid fights with personal attacks involved.

 

[m0nty]

One thing I find very weird about this is that the posts which caused this furore apparently had a distinct racial tone to them, and were directed at an Aboriginal player, yet these facts are not mentioned at all in the article. This is strange, particularly given that this week is Indigenous Round. It makes the debate somewhat skewed.

 

[Ant_]

One thing I find very weird about this is that the posts which caused this furore apparently had a distinct racial tone to them, and were directed at an Aboriginal player, yet these facts are not mentioned at all in the article. This is strange, particularly given that this week is Indigenous Round. It makes the debate somewhat skewed.

Jordan McMahon is not Aboriginal, he has some indian descent.

 

[JeffDunne]

Can someone give me an example of where a players identity has been stolen and people believe it is them.

Chris Judd.

You wouldn't believe how many people have asked me if I'm THE Jeff Dunne.

I even had one asking me if I was Trevor Grant.

 

[Qsaint]

With Robbo and Leach on you can be sure they'll be balanced and let others have their say.

Thanks Robbo