Research Players who served in War

rbartlett

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This is the birth reg. that matches for this chap:
View attachment 659578
So the father was also Maurice.
Right so we have Maurice Patrick Cronin, and his son Maurice Anthiny Cronin. We know the later went to War.
So the question is , which one was the RFC Vice Pres 1915-1917. It is possible the son , born in 1893 could have been. That would make him 22 in 1915. But I'm thinking is that too young to be a vice president (who was often someone who ran a business in the Richmond area).
 

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35Daicos

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Right so we have Maurice Patrick Cronin, and his son Maurice Anthiny Cronin. We know the later went to War.
So the question is , which one was the RFC Vice Pres 1915-1917. It is possible the son , born in 1893 could have been. That would make him 22 in 1915. But I'm thinking is that too young to be a vice president (who was often someone who ran a business in the Richmond area).
I'd certainly guess it would be the father who was the vice president. He died in 1940 (there's a couple of obituaries for him): https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206773412 || https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/141822505 || https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206767960

He was living at Richmond when he died (at 119 Richmond Terrace, just down from the old address), but there's no mention of a Richmond FC connection.
 

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Right so we have Maurice Patrick Cronin, and his son Maurice Anthiny Cronin. We know the later went to War.
So the question is , which one was the RFC Vice Pres 1915-1917. It is possible the son , born in 1893 could have been. That would make him 22 in 1915. But I'm thinking is that too young to be a vice president (who was often someone who ran a business in the Richmond area).
This says M. Cronin had to be replaced as a VP in 1918 because he "removed to Wahgunyah.": https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/93813447

That's only a few kilometres away from Rutherglen, and his obituary says: "The death has occurred of Mr. Maurice Cronin, who was for 14 years principal of the Viticultural College, Rutherglen (V.)."

I'd be very confident that he was the Richmond vice president 1915-17.
 

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3. Tigers of Old book page 305 lists a M Wheeler as player who died in World War 2.
Yet to find any connection to Richmond. However, Max Wheeler, who played 1 game for Hawthorn in 1937, died in 1941 (yet to find his connection, if any, to Richmond). I'm suspecting this is an error in the Tigers of Old book.
M. Wheeler went to Hawthorn from a Ballarat club in 1937: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11111650
G. M. Wheeler went back to Ballarat a year later: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206950259

I can't see a connection between the Hawthorn player and Richmond FC either.
 

rbartlett

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rbartlett

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This says M. Cronin had to be replaced as a VP in 1918 because he "removed to Wahgunyah.": https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/93813447

That's only a few kilometres away from Rutherglen, and his obituary says: "The death has occurred of Mr. Maurice Cronin, who was for 14 years principal of the Viticultural College, Rutherglen (V.)."

I'd be very confident that he was the Richmond vice president 1915-17.
Well that being the case, its interesting that the club put his son down as War Service in their Annual Report. They've obviously branched out to include family members. Unless Maurice Anthiny Cronin had a RFC connection. I'm going to strike him off, and reopen if further evidence surfaces.
 

rbartlett

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UPDATED LIST. REMOVING ONES FOUND/OR NO DIRECT RFC CONNECTION

Hi.
I'm going to dump all the outstanding Richmond War queries in this post.
For those unaware I am keeping a list of all Richmond players/officials (from Snrs.Reserves.U19.Fourths.trained) who enlisted in war.

Below are the ones I can't quite resolved either as a yes or a no. A second set of eyes may help. Any assistance is welcomed.


5. Jim Petrie
1941 Reserves Annual Report says 'rejoined this Committee this year, was transferred to Darwin, and no time will be lost in signing him up again when he return, as Jim was a great worker for the Club' Is it James Henderson Petrie Vt74843 born Horsham 9 Sep 1915? I'm yet to make a connection.

7. Did an 'Andrews', RFC reserves player serve in WW2. This Sporting Globe article talks about an Army Football Match.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article188830760

8. May 25 1943 seniors minute book says "New Players: ..... A Pierce RAAF side. "
Who is that?

9. 20 June 1944 Seniors Minute Book: "Flight Lieut Andrews : Forwarding London Paper with photo published of Mr E Saunders".
Is E. Saunders , our longtime head trainer Ernie Saunders. And if so, did Ernie serve in War, or is the newspaper photo simply not related to War.
If not Ernie Saunders, then who is this E. Saunders.

And, is Lieut Andrews a player/official. - and any connection to the 'Andrews' above.

10. Dec 7 1943 seniors Minute Book : "Les Anderson (451 Fighter Squadron) Conveying Xmas Greetings."
Who is that? Does he have any connection to the club, or is he just a supporter sending greetings.

11. 20 June 1944 Seniors Minute Book " Mr F Galwey: Re:Likely players LAC Lawlor and LAC Kay"
Did either of these men get signed by Richmond or at least train. We know LAC = Leading Aircraftsman


12. Did Bert Boromeo's son Bill (Richmond Fourths coach in early 60s) serve in War? [http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article206111385|This article] suggest a son called W Boromeo was in RAAF. A search on WW2 records brings up several Boromeos, but no Bill or William

13. 1918 Annual Report lists J Coles as enlisted. Jack Coles played for Richmond 1909 , 3 games and is listed as a serviceman. But I can't find which Service Record is his.

15. 1918 Annual Report lists J French as enlisted. (R + BS don't list him What role did he have for Richmond)

16. 1918 Annual Report lists G Hogan as enlisted. (R + BS don't list a G Hogan. What role did he have for Richmond)


21. 1918 Annual Reports lists C Williams as enlisted. Who is that? Is it Charlie Williams our VFA and VFL player?


22. 1918 Annual Reports lists T Collins as enlisted. Who is this for Richmond?
 
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the croucher

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Hi.
I'm going to dump all the outstanding Richmond War queries in this post.
For those unaware I am keeping a list of all Richmond players/officials (from Snrs.Reserves.U19.Fourths.trained) who enlisted in war.

Below are the ones I can't quite resolved either as a yes or a no. A second set of eyes may help. Any assistance is welcomed.

<snip>
2. [http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page8503735|This article ]reference a long time supporter and worker of Richmond Football Club Frank Goldin at war. Yet to find his connection with Richmond. Did he perhaps play junior football in the Richmond district?
<snip>
Well, F Goldin has some connection of which more detail to be found.
He is playing lower grade cricket for the Richmond Footballers Club in March 1913:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/166232759

[edit addition] Ah, and here is F Goldin kicking a goal for Burnley in 1906
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/189377364
 

rbartlett

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Well, F Goldin has some connection of which more detail to be found.
He is playing lower grade cricket for the Richmond Footballers Club in March 1913:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/166232759

[edit addition] Ah, and here is F Goldin kicking a goal for Burnley in 1906
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/189377364
Thank you
I'm starting to think Goldin's connection is not necessarily with Richmond club itself, but Richmond area.
Unless I find him donating some $$, or working at the club I think I'll keep him off the list.
So at the moment I'll strike his name.
 

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UPDATED LIST. REMOVING ONES FOUND/OR NO DIRECT RFC CONNECTION

20. 1918 Annual Reports lists A Whitaker as enlisted. (There's a A Whittaker on General Committee 1911)
(R+BS has an Albert Walter Whitaker , enlisted 44ys 9 mtgs as a bombardier. Discharged 1918 as medically unfit. Richmond Guardian 27 Oct 1917 pg 2 says 'Nip' was one of the Richmond Football Club's best enthusiasts' He wrote a letter to his brother Herb Whitaker , age 30, that is published in the paper. ) So I need to find if Herb Whitaker and Albert Walter Whitaker are brothers
This should be the birth reg. for this chap, though the surname is Whittaker here. On his army record one 't' has been crossed out, so Whitaker is obviously correct. The age would be about right:
1555913080860.png

He was born at Richmond which matches these war record details: WHITAKER Albert Walter : Service Number - 10486 : Place of Birth - Richmond VIC : Place of Enlistment - Melbourne VIC : Next of Kin - (Daughter) WHITAKER Grace Louise
Should be the death reg. here (the age is a bit out):
1555915965664.png


1555916476803.png

So Albert Walter Whitaker had a brother Herb! Yet he was born around 1870, and would have been about 47 (not 30) in 1917 - if that's when you meant that letter was written.

Another edit!: The article just says "Writing to his brother, Mr. Herb. Whitaker, 30 Tanner-street", so no problem there!
 
Last edited:

rbartlett

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This should be the birth reg. for this chap, though the surname is Whittaker here. On his army record one 't' has been crossed out, so Whitaker is obviously correct. The age would be about right:
View attachment 659676
He was born at Richmond which matches these war record details: WHITAKER Albert Walter : Service Number - 10486 : Place of Birth - Richmond VIC : Place of Enlistment - Melbourne VIC : Next of Kin - (Daughter) WHITAKER Grace Louise
Should be the death reg. here (the age is a bit out):
View attachment 659720

Found the right one:
View attachment 659726
So Albert Walter Whitaker had a brother Herb! Yet he was born around 1870, and would have been about 47 (not 30) in 1917 - if that's when you meant that letter was written.
Ignore the '30' reference, that was part of their street address.

So yes, Albert Walter "Nip" Whitaker - RFC committeeman in 1911 - went to WW1 as a bombardier, and wrote a letter back to his brother Herbert Charles Whitaker - who was RFC Trainer 1900-1910. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article93813138

Now Richmond also had a C Whitaker who I have as Charles Norman Whitaker RFC Committee 1907-1910, Timekeeper 1909-1911, Life Member 1911.
And according to BDM, Charles Whitaker's parents were Louisa Frances and Charles! So all three were brothers and had a RFC connection (and 1 went to war)

Screen Shot 2019-04-22 at 5.24.19 pm.png
 

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35Daicos

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UPDATED LIST. REMOVING ONES FOUND/OR NO DIRECT RFC CONNECTION

Hi.
I'm going to dump all the outstanding Richmond War queries in this post.
For those unaware I am keeping a list of all Richmond players/officials (from Snrs.Reserves.U19.Fourths.trained) who enlisted in war.

Below are the ones I can't quite resolved either as a yes or a no. A second set of eyes may help. Any assistance is welcomed.


5. Jim Petrie
1941 Reserves Annual Report says 'rejoined this Committee this year, was transferred to Darwin, and no time will be lost in signing him up again when he return, as Jim was a great worker for the Club' Is it James Henderson Petrie Vt74843 born Horsham 9 Sep 1915? I'm yet to make a connection.
I'm not too sure about this one, but the Horsham Times has a J. H. Petrie playing tennis up that way in April 1938 - and no doubt still living there. When it says "rejoined this Committee this year" in the Annual Report that implies that he'd had a couple of stints on the committee, so I think there's a lot of doubt with that.

There's a James William Petrie (born Ballarat 1911) in the Army records, so he could also be a possibility. As well as being born in Ballarat, he enlisted there, and died there in 1970, so probably not him either!

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/181720986
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/181712184
 

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6. Jack Keenan -1939 Annual Report says 'ex Cub on holidays from New Guinea, paid us visit during the season'
1936 article says he is a[http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article204911343| young player ] and this one says he was from [http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11027207| was Diamond Creek ]. Played [http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11896243|1936 Reserves ]
Just need to connect that Jack with a war Jack
Is it Jack Kennan VX18646 b 10 Aug 1919, Lillydale?
This links Richmond 2nds to Wattle Glen Jack Keenan http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article56844539

Using Ambrose as father we have this

Event:
births
Registration number 27370 / 1915
Family name: KEENAN
Given name(s) Jno Robt
Place of event: BALWYN, VIC, Australia
Personal detail
Mother's name <Unknown Family Name>, Ellen
Mother's family name at birth COPEMAN
Father's Name: <Unknown Family Name>, Ambrose

This leads to this where he receives the DSO http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article65560663

Edit: as an aside he may have enlisted in New Guinea if he was there from 1937. This may be why he isnt on the DVA Roll
 
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35Daicos

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18. 1918 Annual Report lists J McNair as enlisted/ killed (R+BS has possible James McNair from Burnley State School)
But what role did he have with Richmond. This is an important one as he may be a new death entry into our list. Does he have something to do with Archibald McNair - former Richmond player and committeeman. A son ?
You've got Archie McNair being born in 1881, so he shouldn't have a son being killed in the war in around 1917.

Could this be an in memoriam notice for this chap (31 Aug 1917 - he died a year earlier)?: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/1646260
1555924923798.png

Frederick William McNair lists Arch McNair of Richmond as his next of kin in his Army records:
1555924743776.png

So, it's pretty likely the Annual Report mention is for a brother to the Richmond player and committeeman.
 
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the croucher

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UPDATED LIST. REMOVING ONES FOUND/OR NO DIRECT RFC CONNECTION

Hi.
I'm going to dump all the outstanding Richmond War queries in this post.
For those unaware I am keeping a list of all Richmond players/officials (from Snrs.Reserves.U19.Fourths.trained) who enlisted in war.

Below are the ones I can't quite resolved either as a yes or a no. A second set of eyes may help. Any assistance is welcomed.
<snip>

10. Dec 7 1943 seniors Minute Book : "Les Anderson (451 Fighter Squadron) Conveying Xmas Greetings."
Who is that? Does he have any connection to the club, or is he just a supporter sending greetings.

<snip>
A Leslie Montrose Anderson in the RAAF gives dob 1916 and Burnley as place, plus enlisted in the Richmond district.
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=R&veteranId=863118

Doesn't clarify why his name comes up but could at least be the i.d. for the person referred to.
 

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12. Did Bert Boromeo's son Bill (Richmond Fourths coach in early 60s) serve in War? [http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article206111385|This article] suggest a son called W Boromeo was in RAAF. A search on WW2 records brings up several Boromeos, but no Bill or William
This might explain and answer a question

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article223916006


A. E. ("BILL") BOROMEO, son of
the former Carlton champion,
has been appointed playing coach of;
Koroit Football Club at £5 a week. !
Boromeo junr., who is 25, played;
with St. Kilda Seconds last year.

That links to Albert Edward Western Boromeo born 1921 and listed under this name
 

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rbartlett

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This links Richmond 2nds to Wattle Glen Jack Keenan http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article56844539

Using Ambrose as father we have this

Event:
births
Registration number 27370 / 1915
Family name: KEENAN
Given name(s) Jno Robt
Place of event: BALWYN, VIC, Australia
Personal detail
Mother's name <Unknown Family Name>, Ellen
Mother's family name at birth COPEMAN
Father's Name: <Unknown Family Name>, Ambrose

This leads to this where he receives the DSO http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article65560663

Edit: as an aside he may have enlisted in New Guinea if he was there from 1937. This may be why he isnt on the DVA Roll
YES!
Well this sheds some light indeed based on your research. The Wattle Glen connection is very handy, to make sure I don't go down the wrong track
A search for John Robert Keenan brings up this bio of him serving in Papua New Guinea and in the Royal Australian Navy
https://www.pngaa.net/Vale/vale_june97.htm#Keenan

Another search brings up a bio of him here from a book called We Who Proudly Served

Screen Shot 2019-04-22 at 8.31.17 pm.png


And some more info on his role as a CoastWatcher. https://anzacportal.dva.gov.au/history/conflicts/australia-and-second-world-war/resources/coastwatchers-19411945

And a search through WW2 Record finally locates him - Service Number : "Not Applicable". 27 Oct 1915
I would guess his son's are still alive. His widow was until at least 1997
Screen Shot 2019-04-22 at 8.39.24 pm.png
 

rbartlett

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I'm not too sure about this one, but the Horsham Times has a J. H. Petrie playing tennis up that way in April 1938 - and no doubt still living there. When it says "rejoined this Committee this year" in the Annual Report that implies that he'd had a couple of stints on the committee, so I think there's a lot of doubt with that.

There's a James William Petrie (born Ballarat 1911) in the Army records, so he could also be a possibility. As well as being born in Ballarat, he enlisted there, and died there in 1970, so probably not him either!

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/181720986
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/181712184
Well a bit more info. The Jim Petrie for Richmond was on RFC Reserves committee 1936-39, and 1941. Treasurer 1943. Vice Pres 1947 -1958.
The gap for the 1940 year corresponds to him being upin Darwin (as per the 1941 Annual Report)

This says he coached Darwin's NAVY side in December 1941. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article181720986
 

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I just looked for a John Robert Keenan on the Ryerson index and it shows someone with the same name dying in 1997 (the same as above) but in Nambour, QLD (11-04-1997.)

Not sure if they match.
 

rbartlett

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Frederick William McNair lists Arch McNair of Richmond as his next of kin in his Army records:
View attachment 659893
So, it's pretty likely the Annual Report mention is for a brother to the Richmond player and committeeman.
Good find.
And so that corresponds with the M Cronin entry as well , whereby it looks like it was son who went to war, not the actual official.
And it makes sense for the club to list the death of the brother of their life member right.

This is important to keep in mind, as some of these entries may not be for relatives of Richmond officials/players
I won't put them on my war list, but its good to know .
McNair has now been striked through.
 

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9. 20 June 1944 Seniors Minute Book: "Flight Lieut Andrews : Forwarding London Paper with photo published of Mr E Saunders".
Is E. Saunders , our longtime head trainer Ernie Saunders. And if so, did Ernie serve in War, or is the newspaper photo simply not related to War.
If not Ernie Saunders, then who is this E. Saunders.

And, is Lieut Andrews a player/official. - and any connection to the 'Andrews' above.
Ernie Saunders was obviously very well known, and yet the many stories I've read on him don't mention war service. Surely if he had done war service it would have got a mention among everything that was said about him when he died in 1951?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/244794511
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/193636732
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/193636632
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/23035440
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/248323325
 

rbartlett

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This might explain and answer a question

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article223916006


A. E. ("BILL") BOROMEO, son of
the former Carlton champion,
has been appointed playing coach of;
Koroit Football Club at £5 a week. !
Boromeo junr., who is 25, played;
with St. Kilda Seconds last year.

That links to Albert Edward Western Boromeo born 1921 and listed under this name
This looks promising. Service Number 148708 for RAAF.
This is his grave https://ws.billiongraves.com/grave/Albert-Edward-Western-Boromeo/23100081
I'll check with Dad if he recalls "Bill" talking about WW2 during his time as Richmond 4th coach

Edit: Dad reckons Bill died in 1992 which corresponds with the grave. Infact Bill's son is Ronnie Boromeo, the vocalist for The Groop who had a big hit with 'Woman You're Breaking Me'.
 
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35Daicos

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I just looked for a John Robert Keenan on the Ryerson index and it shows someone with the same name dying in 1997 (the same as above) but in Nambour, QLD (11-04-1997.)

Not sure if they match.
Yes. They match!
1555932888241.png

https://www.pngaa.net/Vale/vale_june97.htm
John Robert KEENAN, DSC, RANVR (11 April 1997, aged 81)

John was a teacher in Victoria before becoming a cadet patrol officer in 1937. His first posting was to Rabaul, where, two weeks into his first term, he was involved in the major volcanic eruption. His first station was Gasmata; the station did not reopen after the war. Just prior to the war, John began a course at Sydney University for those who had completed their term as Cadet Patrol Officer (this was pre Aust. School of Pacific Administration days).

John is warmly remembered by the residents of Nambour, Qld, particularly the elderly. He and his wife lobbied the government concerning the rights of residents of retirement villages. The outcome was the enactment of the Retirement Villages Act 1988. Largely due to John's work, Australia was the first country to legislate in this area.

He is survived by his wife Phyllis, his brother Frank, two sons and their families. Condensed from articles in the Sunshine Coast Daily, 15 April 1997, The Sunday Mail 20 April 1997, the Nambour Community News and a personal letter. Doug Franklin provided the details from Eric Feldt's book
 
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