Research Players who served in War

Michael Riley

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rbartlett

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Came across Richmond signing a Leo Fitzgerald in July 1944. The article lists him as a RAAF Instructor. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11351631

This suggests his middle initial is G. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206003405
and that he is from Ballan.

This says he played with Bacchus Marsh with a few Richmond players before we signed him up. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206011621

Our Minute Book says we cleared an L Fitzgerald in 1946 to Bulleen on May 15 1946 (I'm leaning towards it being the same player)
But I'm trying to find his WW2 record, and struggling.

Then I saw this from 1947 : A Leo Fitzgerald from Ingliston, ex-RAAF (which google maps tell me is 7 minutes away from Ballan) which says he was in the US and Canada during the war. My US/Canada war knowledge is minimal so I'm not sure where to start to try and see if it is the Fitzgerald who we signed.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22528639

Thoughts.
 

35Daicos

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Came across Richmond signing a Leo Fitzgerald in July 1944. The article lists him as a RAAF Instructor. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11351631

This suggests his middle initial is G. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206003405
and that he is from Ballan.

This says he played with Bacchus Marsh with a few Richmond players before we signed him up. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206011621

Our Minute Book says we cleared an L Fitzgerald in 1946 to Bulleen on May 15 1946 (I'm leaning towards it being the same player)
But I'm trying to find his WW2 record, and struggling.

Then I saw this from 1947 : A Leo Fitzgerald from Ingliston, ex-RAAF (which google maps tell me is 7 minutes away from Ballan) which says he was in the US and Canada during the war. My US/Canada war knowledge is minimal so I'm not sure where to start to try and see if it is the Fitzgerald who we signed.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22528639

Thoughts.
This has Leo Fitzgerald training with Richmond in April 1946:- https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206107456

He got married here:- https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/22712375

This should be his Army record:- https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=5523852&isAv=N

FITZGERALD LEO GERARD : Service Number - 410881 : Date of birth - 25 Jun 1923 : Place of birth - MORNINGTON VIC : Place of enlistment - MELBOURNE : Next of Kin - FITZGERALD MICHAEL

Michael Fitzgerald is the name of the father in the engagement news.
 
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the croucher

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Oct 22, 2000
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Came across Richmond signing a Leo Fitzgerald in July 1944. The article lists him as a RAAF Instructor. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11351631

This suggests his middle initial is G. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206003405
and that he is from Ballan.

This says he played with Bacchus Marsh with a few Richmond players before we signed him up. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206011621

Our Minute Book says we cleared an L Fitzgerald in 1946 to Bulleen on May 15 1946 (I'm leaning towards it being the same player)
But I'm trying to find his WW2 record, and struggling.

Then I saw this from 1947 : A Leo Fitzgerald from Ingliston, ex-RAAF (which google maps tell me is 7 minutes away from Ballan) which says he was in the US and Canada during the war. My US/Canada war knowledge is minimal so I'm not sure where to start to try and see if it is the Fitzgerald who we signed.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22528639

Thoughts.
Via list of passengers found on the Ancestry website - Leo G Fitzgerald (of the RAAF) sailed for the US on 1 May 1943
on board the President Monroe. He is listed as being 19 years of age, with Mornington Victoria as place of birth.
His height is shown as 5ft 11in. Date of arrival in San Francisco is shown as 17 May 1943.
 

rbartlett

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FITZGERALD LEO GERARD : Service Number - 410881 : Date of birth - 25 Jun 1923 : Place of birth - MORNINGTON VIC : Place of enlistment - MELBOURNE : Next of Kin - FITZGERALD MICHAEL Michael Fitzgerald is the name of the father in the engagement news.
His Daics, thanks
When i did Surname search , using WW2 drop down Fitzgerald, Leo G nothing came up. But when I search by his service number, it did
User error I suspect.

Many thanks again
 

rbartlett

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Jan 5, 2004
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Via list of passengers found on the Ancestry website - Leo G Fitzgerald (of the RAAF) sailed for the US on 1 May 1943
on board the President Monroe. He is listed as being 19 years of age, with Mornington Victoria as place of birth.
His height is shown as 5ft 11in. Date of arrival in San Francisco is shown as 17 May 1943.
Many thanks for that. (I'll have to ask AWM to see if they can digitise his record)
 

35Daicos

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The Pioneers Grenadier team, that played Richmond in 1916, has been listed on The Herald.
The team is made up of League and Association soldiers - so I wonder if any have slipped through the cracks
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article242329483
There's a few names of "senior" players mentioned here:- https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/154796921

Included in the Grenadiers' ranks are players known to fame in Victorian football circles, and they will be added to as recruiting progresses. Among eligible candidates are H. James (Rich.), W. Sewart (Essendon), C. Willis (S.M.), V Kerr (Uni.), Farmer (Prah.), Armstrong (Essendon), Alley (Williamstown), and Carlton's ex-Captain Fred ('Pompey') Elliott.

Edit: Looks like Bert Barnes kicked 7 goals (out of 8) for Richmond in that practice game:- https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/154791914
 
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WhiteHartLane23

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Jul 26, 2014
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Stumbled across another player who served in WWI - Clarrie Dall (Fitzroy) - has never appeared in any lists as far as I can tell
 

WhiteHartLane23

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I've spent a bit of time ensuring all the known WWI players are now captured in Wikidata with full names & places of birth/death

The list of all 770 can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/ycob4fzf

Plus an interesting map showing places of birth / death - you can click on any of the markers to see the name of the player who was born/died at that location: http://tinyurl.com/y7yxbzl9
 

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WhiteHartLane23

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And other new one - Len Mills (St Kilda/Hawthorn)
Enlisted at age 16 (enlistment record says 6ft 4in tall) - playing record says 6ft 8in, perhaps he was still growing when he signed up?
The photo below (taken while he was serving in France) gives you an idea of how tall he was next to others he was serving with

LeonardJamesMills.jpg
 

rbartlett

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Norm Brooker - RFC 3 games 1911 served in both WW1 and WW2.
He is not listed in the 'Harder Than Football' publication.
Brooker's wikipedia page is maintained by his grandson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_Brooker, who reminded me that Brooker's medals are in the Richmond Museum.
Brooker's service number appears to be VX5279, after speaking to his grandson. Norm lied about his age so he could enlist with his son (who then died in War)
 

the croucher

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Oct 22, 2000
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What do you think of adding people like Wally Johnson to the list ?
https://australianfootball.com/players/player/wally+johnson/2242

He missed the 1917 & 1918 VFL seasons because of WW1 work (munitions factory in UK)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/242464870
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/140244978
I take it then that he is not to be added to the list because,
whilst it might be recognised that his career was interrupted due to "overseas war work,"
he was not an actual serving member of the forces so should NOT be on any "War Service" lists.

Correct ?
 

rbartlett

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I take it then that he is not to be added to the list because,
whilst it might be recognised that his career was interrupted due to "overseas war work,"
he was not an actual serving member of the forces so should NOT be on any "War Service" lists.

Correct ?
I would recognise him for war service . Though I'm not sure what criteria is used by the AFL or Barb Cullen
 

the croucher

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Oct 22, 2000
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I would recognise him for war service . Though I'm not sure what criteria is used by the AFL or Barb Cullen
Mmm.. thanks Rhett. I personally think he should be on the list too,
but would understand those who only wanted to have "serving members" recognised.
 

WhiteHartLane23

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I would recognise him for war service . Though I'm not sure what criteria is used by the AFL or Barb Cullen
I'm not sure if there is an exact criteria but it can't be too strict...
Jack Massey is recognised as serving but was rejected for army service because of a leg injury, and subsequently joined the YMCA as a field secretary attached to the Australian Imperial Force
Jack Hassett is recognised as "serving" despite enlisting on 10 Sep 1914, disappearing on 12 Sep 1914 and being discharged in October 1914 after having been AWOL for a month
 

Supermercado

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The Lionel Smale (http://demonwiki.org/Lionel+Smale) who played two games for Melbourne in 1904 was the same Basil Lionel Smale from the Boer War (https://discoveringanzacs.naa.gov.au/browse/records/165879). Address on the enlistment record in Elsternwick ties in to him being recruited from Caulfield and the age lines up. There is a chance he may have enlisted given the five months between signing up and the conflict ending.

This would make him the second confirmed MFC player I've found who served in that war (after 1897 one gamer Jack Godby).

His Wikipedia has a link to a story about Basil Smale dying in a bike vs car accident in Perth in 1934, which lines up to his historically accepted DOD but as we have discovered on this board they are not always kosher.
 

the croucher

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Oct 22, 2000
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The Lionel Smale (http://demonwiki.org/Lionel+Smale) who played two games for Melbourne in 1904 was the same Basil Lionel Smale from the Boer War (https://discoveringanzacs.naa.gov.au/browse/records/165879). Address on the enlistment record in Elsternwick ties in to him being recruited from Caulfield and the age lines up. There is a chance he may have enlisted given the five months between signing up and the conflict ending.

This would make him the second confirmed MFC player I've found who served in that war (after 1897 one gamer Jack Godby).

His Wikipedia has a link to a story about Basil Smale dying in a bike vs car accident in Perth in 1934, which lines up to his historically accepted DOD but as we have discovered on this board they are not always kosher.
Yes, good to be cautious, but in this case looks like official records are correct.
The family death notice suggests that he was known as "Ben" rather than Basil or Lionel,
but perhaps that was a family name rather than wider community one.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/33016885


These two refs probably refer to him, one in 1898, the other 1904.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/191498487
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/189431730

by about 1913 he appears to be living in Perth thereon until his death -
various occupations listed: professional skater, letter carrier !!
 

Supermercado

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Yes, good to be cautious, but in this case looks like official records are correct.
The family death notice suggests that he was known as "Ben" rather than Basil or Lionel,
but perhaps that was a family name rather than wider community one.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/33016885


These two refs probably refer to him, one in 1898, the other 1904.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/191498487
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/189431730

by about 1913 he appears to be living in Perth thereon until his death -
various occupations listed: professional skater, letter carrier !!
Thanks for your work on this. No wonder he wasn't invited back for 1905 after pinching a bike.
 
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