Players with real speed.

[King Corey]

Agree with you Tef on Narrier - vastly overestimated so far. Haven't seen any real productive run and carry from him. He has a propensity to do the odd freakish thing but isn't fit to carry an 18yo Lindsay Thomas' boots in this regard at the moment.

Also true re Majak and noone would be expecting a KPP/ruck to be a meaningful part of the side's ability to transition quickly between the arcs anyway.

This list deficiency has been evident for at least 5 years probably longer. Anyone doubting it just look at trading threads circa 2013-14.

These blokes - "Reserves - Hibberd, Mountford, Williams" indicate a wider issue being touched on in other threads. Maybe all of them will fail at reaching AFL standard. Who knows. But after debuting them last year we needed some incremental indication of their senior credentials this year, to know whether their various running related strengths were going to shore up list gaps for us long term.

By exposing none of them we're currently none the wiser. Broken record time - Denis Pagan, hardly the modern father of "play the kids" still risked rotating in Simpson, Harvey, Watt, Welsh, Petrie, Pickett, Mooney, Motlop x2 et al through a very strong side over his years in charge to continually keep a handle on what he had.

I realise the thread is concentrating more on speed but you need to know what you actually have before you even know if you have a stop-gap solution. 2 rounds to go and we still don't.

 

[Zondor]

His real strength is as a chase down tackler, not moving the ball quickly through the arcs.

Yes and from a decision making perspective he ain't that quick either. With Maj he needs a monster preseason so he runs out games with more toe. Started dropping marks in the second half against WB and that to me looked like the result of fatigue. :stern look

 

[Snake_Baker]

Luke Davies-Uniacke would have more burst speed then anyone in our side

From the contest maybe, but he lacks the strength to burst out at the moment.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Agree with you Tef on Narrier - vastly overestimated so far. Haven't seen any real productive run and carry from him. He has a propensity to do the odd freakish thing but isn't fit to carry an 18yo Lindsay Thomas' boots in this regard at the moment.

Also true re Majak and noone would be expecting a KPP/ruck to be a meaningful part of the side's ability to transition quickly between the arcs anyway.

This list deficiency has been evident for at least 5 years probably longer. Anyone doubting it just look at trading threads circa 2013-14.

These blokes - "Reserves - Hibberd, Mountford, Williams" indicate a wider issue being touched on in other threads. Maybe all of them will fail at reaching AFL standard. Who knows. But after debuting them last year we needed some incremental indication of their senior credentials this year, to know whether their various running related strengths were going to shore up list gaps for us long term.

By exposing none of them we're currently none the wiser. Broken record time - Denis Pagan, hardly the modern father of "play the kids" still risked rotating in Simpson, Harvey, Watt, Welsh, Petrie, Pickett, Mooney, Motlop x2 et al through a very strong side over his years in charge to continually keep a handle on what he had.

I realise the thread is concentrating more on speed but you need to know what you actually have before you even know if you have a stop-gap solution. 2 rounds to go and we still don't.

Thanks for getting the thread back on the rails.

 

[Carlos Herrrnandez]

The boys are always welcome to come down and train with my athletics squad over the summer.

They’d get completely smashed, but over a few months would get fitter and faster.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yes and from a decision making perspective he ain't that quick either. With Maj he needs a monster preseason so he runs out games with more toe. Started dropping marks in the second half against WB and that to me looked like the result of fatigue. :stern look

Agree that Maj's decision making is nothing special, but he is playing more within his limits, so he himself has acknowledged that.

He really shouldn't be in this discussion. A different type of player.

 

[Zondor]

The boys are always welcome to come down and train with my athletics squad over the summer.

They’d get completely smashed, but over a few months would get fitter and faster.

And that's the thing. Pace can be worked on. So can endurance. The question is who at Arden St has improved their running since being drafted? Dumont? Who else? Is this also a development issue? :stern look

 

[Heaps of fun]

And that's the thing. Pace can be worked on. So can endurance. The question is who at Arden St has improved their running since being drafted? Dumont? Who else? Is this also a development issue? :stern look

I feel like Turner has worked on his tremendously.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The boys are always welcome to come down and train with my athletics squad over the summer.

They’d get completely smashed, but over a few months would get fitter and faster.

G'day Carlos.

Do you really think AFL players can be made markedly quicker, when their base has to come from endurance?

I can't remember a moderately paced player ever turning in to a jet. I figure the bio-mechanics are already laid down when a kid gets to a club.

 

[Zondor]

Agree that Maj's decision making is nothing special, but he is playing more within his limits, so he himself has acknowledged that.

He really shouldn't be in this discussion. A different type of player.

I get that. He ain't a Midfielder and we need Midfield Run and Speed. :stern look

 

[Carlos Herrrnandez]

And that's the thing. Pace can be worked on. So can endurance. The question is who at Arden St has improved their running since being drafted? Dumont? Who else? Is this also a development issue? :stern look

And I guarantee you any guy that committed to a few months of it would have a career season next year.

I can assure you whoever is in charge of our fitness either a) doesn’t know what they’re doing; or b) doesn’t get to work with the boys enough

 

[Thewlis Dish]

A glaring problem for me is for all the players listed in the OP, only Higgins is also damaging with his disposal. There's no point being able to run 100 in five seconds if you then cough it up or stop and look for a sideways chip or handball.

How many "metres gained" sort of players do we have on the list? Higgins is obviously one. McDonald was another but has turned to utter tripe this year.

 

[Carlos Herrrnandez]

G'day Carlos.

Do you really think AFL players can be made markedly quicker, when their base has to come from endurance?

I can't remember a moderately paced player ever turning in to a jet. I figure the bio-mechanics are already laid down when a kid gets to a club.

Tef, with the right technique work, without a doubt. I sprinted when I was a late teen, ran middle distance for most of my 20s, then ran my fastest ever sprint when I was over 30 thanks to the right coaching.

Not to mention with the right technique and training methods, repeat efforts become easier for the players.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Lmac has underrated pace

Daw, Marley, Jed, Higgo, LDU, Lmac, Jy, ats, Walker, Turner, Williams, Hayden, Billy, Narrier, Mountford and even zurhaar has good burst
Hibberd a very good athlete also

Unfortunately many of these are not in our team ATM

Instead we have plodders in Wright, Macmillan, Dumont

 

[Event Horizon]

Unfortunately the likes of Josh Williams and Nielsen failed to dominate in the VFL - hard to promote them on these basis.

Hibberd is too injury prone and isn’t fast.

Hartung is almost our best option out of those not in the 22 at the moment.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Val Keating]

Lmac has underrated pace

Daw, Marley, Jed, Higgo, LDU, Lmac, Jy, ats, Walker, Turner, Williams, Hayden, Billy, Narrier, Mountford and even zurhaar has good burst
Hibberd a very good athlete also

Unfortunately many of these are not in our team ATM

Instead we have plodders in Wright, Macmillan, Dumont

LMac is definitely someone who needs to work on his running style. Needs to spend some time with the bloke Higgins employed to improve his gait

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Unfortunately the likes of Josh Williams and Nielsen failed to dominate in the VFL - hard to promote them on these basis.

Hibberd is too injury prone and isn’t fast.

Hartung is almost our best option out of those not in the 22 at the moment.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Nielson has had the most vfl bests of any of our players.

 

[muttley45]

Totally agree we need more pace, but as a temporary tactic to cover our overall lack of it, the value of an extremely attacking and high risk kick to advantage to clear a zone, and then run and carry with what we've got has worked brilliantly on the rare occasions we try it successfully. So why is a guy like Murphy, who i have seen execute nice kicks to advantage repeatedly running around for the VFL squad, and when he did get his brief crack in the seniors, was not even allowed to take 1 kick in ? we are not using our assets effectively.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Tef, with the right technique work, without a doubt. I sprinted when I was a late teen, ran middle distance for most of my 20s, then ran my fastest ever sprint when I was over 30 thanks to the right coaching.

Not to mention with the right technique and training methods, repeat efforts become easier for the players.

Well, someone needs to send this to the club accompanied by a flashing red light.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Nielson has had the most vfl bests of any of our players.

Yeah, I was puzzled by that too.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Totally agree we need more pace, but as a temporary tactic to cover our overall lack of it, the value of an extremely attacking and high risk kick to advantage to clear a zone, and then run and carry with what we've got has worked brilliantly on the rare occasions we try it successfully. So why is a guy like Murphy, who i have seen execute nice kicks to advantage repeatedly running around for the VFL squad, and when he did get his brief crack in the seniors, was not even allowed to take 1 kick in ? we are not using our assets effectively.

They probably want to use Tom on the second kick to pick through the press, but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[King Corey]

Lmac has underrated pace

We're all special little flowers but surely basic biomechanics apply across the board, would this be right Carlos Herrrnandez ?

When a bloke's running style involves lots of head flopping, rotational arm flapping and legs flailing I'd have thought that's a huge energy leak.

Regardless there's a supposition that all AFL clubs study every little detail and have all the right people in place with regards to their conditioning and athletic performance.

Based on direct information this isn't the case. It's a well paid but not stupidly well paid industry in this area and there's plenty of room for improvement at many clubs.

During Laidley years our conditioning included a "bis and tris" day. Seriously. Players put themselves on their own programs when they thought the club ones were s**t (and no wonder).

Collingwood and Richmond (before they turned it around) both engaged yoga instructors a few years ago. Collingwood had a very good attendance rate with players trying to do extras. Richmond players opted out or took a half-arsed approach.

The club had a choice to send player X to an experienced or inexperienced surgeon in the last couple of years and willingly chose the latter despite being warned. Job botched, had to do it all over again.

The industry is as varied in its professionalism and intelligence as any other.

/tangent

 

[Grogg]

Totally agree we need more pace, but as a temporary tactic to cover our overall lack of it, the value of an extremely attacking and high risk kick to advantage to clear a zone, and then run and carry with what we've got has worked brilliantly on the rare occasions we try it successfully. So why is a guy like Murphy, who i have seen execute nice kicks to advantage repeatedly running around for the VFL squad, and when he did get his brief crack in the seniors, was not even allowed to take 1 kick in ? we are not using our assets effectively.

I think McMillan is the designated and should be delegating to a much better user like Murph who is very good. JMac is as average as * with the ball in hand.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Event Horizon]

Yeah, I was puzzled by that too.

The games I watched he was meh


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Carlos Herrrnandez]

We're all special little flowers but surely basic biomechanics apply across the board, would this be right Carlos Herrrnandez ?

When a bloke's running style involves lots of head flopping, rotational arm flapping and legs flailing I'd have thought that's a huge energy leak.

Regardless there's a supposition that all AFL clubs study every little detail and have all the right people in place with regards to their conditioning and athletic performance.

Based on direct information this isn't the case. It's a well paid but not stupidly well paid industry in this area and there's plenty of room for improvement at many clubs.

During Laidley years our conditioning included a "bis and tris" day. Seriously. Players put themselves on their own programs when they thought the club ones were s**t (and no wonder).

Collingwood and Richmond (before they turned it around) both engaged yoga instructors a few years ago. Collingwood had a very good attendance rate with players trying to do extras. Richmond players opted out or took a half-arsed approach.

The club had a choice to send player X to an experienced or inexperienced surgeon in the last couple of years and willingly chose the latter despite being warned. Job botched, had to do it all over again.

The industry is as varied in its professionalism and intelligence as any other.

/tangent

Without a doubt would improve immensely. It’s really up to the players individually to decide if they want to improve in one of the most important aspects of performance - they have a break post season so let’s see how many do what it takes to improve.

The squad has Olympians, an Aust Record holder and 2 guys who made the Comm Games final too - so could learn much more than just getting fit.