Original post was comparing individual players against each other. Now you've gone off on a tangent about team collective's in one of the most lopsided era's in the 16+ team AFL era.
Lloyd actually has a much better goals per game average than Franklin who might I add did leave Hawthorn after two premierships and only 2 Coleman's, Lloyd has 3 colemansmeanwhile his AA's were predomaaintly won at Sydney (5 v Hawks 4) so again, semantics but you are underselling Lloyd here.
You stated Roughy had versatility, Lucas won a club b&f as a CHB and was a 2 x club b&f winner. Roughead 0. Roughead kicked 107 more goals in 13 more games, take away Lucas' 1.5 seasons where he played defence and goals per game he was pretty much on par with your man.
Bewick's 6 state of origin games suggests in one of the toughest era's in AFL history he was on the cusp of AA selection so maybe not at the level of your man, his (1.4) goals per game is actually not as bad as Breusts (1.8) and has 2 premierships under his belt (comparable to Breust's 3).
Mercuri literally came second in the Brownlow medal in 1999, whilst Rioli's 1.4 goals a game is nice, Mecuri's 1.16 for a midfielder resting forward appears much much better.
I'll give you Gunston, we had a plethora of guys in and around that 3rd tall fwd role. Paul Barnard (140 games for Essendon) was the most consistent and Gunston has him covered easily.
Hird is Hird as you mentioned.
Now I am not disagreeing with you, just feel you are seriously dispelling that Essendon team due to your Hawthorn bias. Franklin's Colemans were margins - 2017 (+4, J.Kennedy played 5 less games)
- 2014 (+4, Roughead played 1 more game)
- 2011 (+13, T.Cloke played 3 more goals)
- 2008 (+14, Fev second with 3 less games)
Compare that to Lloyd's dominance in his era where he won Colemans'
- 2000 (+ 33, Jeff Farmer played 2 less games)
- 2001 (+ 46, Richo played 1 more game)
- 2003 (+ 15, same amount of goals as second placed Neitz)
Now Buddy is nice and all but I don't think people realise just how dominant Lloyd was at his peak. The closest a player got to his dominance was probably Gehrig who incidentally kicked 7 more goals in 1 more game than my man in 2004. Buddy's highlights seduces a lot of people, and obviously more so the Hawks supporters but digging deeper players from yesteryear was just as good, if not better when you dig a little deeper.
For the record, I do agree that Breust, Gunston were easily better players than the aforementioned Bombers guys but underselling the 'stars' when you do dig deeper.
Not sure how you have concluded I am underselling your stars? and certainly not demonstrated bias as per your original claim given I almost only used facts. The very first line of my post is agreeing that the Essendon forward line is 'incredible'. I then suggested there was some stiff competition' to be the greatest ever. In other words, they are in the conversation, just maybe not the actual no 1. I'll give you a hint - if a rival supporter believes your players are in the mix for the greatest ever, they are not being undersold.
I absolutely rate the players you've mentioned for the reasons you've mentioned (nearly all of which I touched on myself).
I did not suggest the Hawthorn players 'were miles better' or 'shits on' their Essendon counterparts or any other biased language. I provided pretty undeniable (and balanced rationale) for why I had the Hawthorn players shade their Essendon equivalents. The ironly is that after calling me out, you seem to largely agree with my assessments anyway.
On some specific points:
Dunno if you misread it but my post had nothing to do with team collectives (and therefore lopsided eras have no relevance). I added up the career tallies of the 6 Hawks named to the 6 Bombers named to emphasise the difference in their impact in the most important metric for forwards: goals. 5 of the 6 Hawks have more goals than their Essendon counterparts, despite individual tallies now being much lower (and 3 of them are still going). Not small margins either. Some have kicked several hundred goals more.
I stated myself Lucas' versatility was good for the reasons you mention. Roughead also spent 2 years at CHB and spent another 2 years as a regular ruck rotation (where he was AA). He also spent considerable chunks as a dominant centre square midfield rotation. That's why I suggested Roughy was more versatile. Lucas could play back and forward to good effect. Roughead played back, forward, ruck and mid to good effect. There's no need to remove Lucas' 1.5 season when Roughy spent far more time away from the forward line than Lucas did and still kicked more 107 goals, won a Coleman, multiple AA's, big bags in finals, etc.
Again, it feels like you didn't read my post all that closely. I highlighted that Mercuri's peak (i.e. 99) was better than Rioli's. Thing is, every individual accolade in Mercuri's career came in that season. In fact, Mercuri never cracked 10 votes any other year. That's why I suggested that Rioli may have been more consistent as Rioli was elite throughout, won multiple AA's, a Norm Smith medal another year, etc. Even then, I conceded that they were different players so hard to compare and that only as a forward, you might pick Rioli (remembering that Mercuri's best years, including 99, came from the midfield). I think it is a pretty fair and reasonable assessment that as a forward you would pick Rioli.
I'm not keen to go down the Buddy vs Lloyd rabbit hole again but if you somehow think I'm suggesting that Lloyd wasn't a gun, you are sorely mistaken. I rate Lloyd as the best pure full forward since Lockett and one of the all time greats. Not unreasonable (and certainly no 'biased' insult) to suggest Buddy may now have gone past for the reasons I mentioned.
At the end of the day, all 6 Hawks were All Australians whilst only 3 of the Bombers were. The Hawks 6 won 2 more Colemans and will likely end up kicking 700 odd more goals than the Essendon 6 in a reduced scoring era. That's the equivalent of adding an extra Tom Hawkins or Jack Riewoldt to your forward line. I don't think it was biased to suggest 'stiff competition' to being the greatest ever in that context. I have the utmost respect for those Essendon champions (despite a strong dislike for your mob).
