Strategy Playing Style & Strategy

[GrommoT]

...
Another thing I took out, and its a lesson for the crows, was that when the ball is rushed down the ground to the forward line it comes in a bit chaos ball like and neither defenders nor forwards know exactly where and how the ball will come in. Based on this observation, a problem we have, is that our movement that is very organised is very predictable, which is great for the forwards, the problem is, it is even better for the defenders on our forwards and they are just able to predict where things are going to go and do the chop off. Faster more chaotic ball movement for us and longer range incoming balls will help with this.

I think this makes for an interesting thread. Had a quick squizz of the main board and another board and there doesn't seem to be a tread on this at the moment.

Poot were saying they used the chaos ball forward to beat the West Coast last week and it is a creative way to deal with the modern game. Had wondered what the options are for moving the ball forward.

Ok, so often we find ourselves with a defender at a HB flank after a kick in, maybe a switch across ground as one wing is flooded by the opposition. At this point, what are the options?
[1] long kick along the wing
[2] short kick across the ground looking for an open player elsewhere
[3] play on/handball to a teammate to run up the ground
[4] kick towards the midfield

Majority of the time we (and most teams) take option [1] as it's a safer way to move forward, if we don't mark it, it's easier to knock the ball out of play to allow us to regroup, set up for the next ball up. A pause in play also gives the players a chance to brief rest and catch their breath. At this point, if we win the ball, the next kick will be to inside the F50.

One thing teams almost never do is a kick towards the midfield and my guess is the risk of the opposition getting a turnover and sending the ball back over defenders' heads is too high.

It looks like the chaos ball - playing a "dirty" style as one of the Poot players said - actually gives a new option of how to move the ball forward. I wonder if something like the "kick to touch" in Rugby is another similar (but not same) option - maybe kick it to an open space and let our runners go for it.

I guess the players a team has and their capabilities determine what approach can be taken.


[Discuss]

 

[Dixie Normous]

I'd prefer playing on at all costs up the guts - hate the laboured over-possession slowed down tempo crap

 

[mattymac]

Our players are at their best when they have no time to think. They are not a composed bunch of gentlemen.

Therefore we need to avoid anything that slows the game down and forces them to think.

Fast flowing footy is our ticket.

I disagree with the chaos ball F50 entries theory. I feel like most of this decade our F50 entries have been chaotic.

We're at our best when we lower our eyes but move the ball fast so our forwards get a decent chance to lead into space before the oppo floods back and sets up.

Speed of ball movement is key for our success.

 

[GrommoT]

I'd prefer playing on at all costs up the guts - hate the laboured over-possession slowed down tempo crap

Maybe we'll see more of that when our recent recruits with speed start to play. Right now, do we have the personnel for that style of game?

... I disagree with the chaos ball F50 entries theory. I feel like most of this decade our F50 entries have been chaotic. ...

The difference with the chaos ball style is the ball is kicked in fast and low to give the ball a chance to bounce unpredictably whereas what I think we've been doing a lot of is kicking long and high into our F50 a lot. This ends up with the ball having a long hang time and gives defenders enough time to get to the fall of the ball causing a pack to form and making our entries look chaotic

 

[GreyCrow]

Port also had the luxury of rain. I'm not sure WC play that good in the rain , or the way they structured didnt help them and helped Port

I think it is a valid point regarding time to think. Give us time to think and it becomes overthink

Always been a fan of selecting spots on the ground to kick to so if there is trouble the kick should be aimed at a spot and either someone is there or someone knows its going there. Also like the idea of having players run onto a loose ball rather than have the contest in the air.

I wonder if we have role players or its every man for themselves. Our handball chains look more like ' I dont want it' rather than giving the ball to a person in a better spot. If we had role players - players who have a defined attribute ie Smith. If a handballl finds Smith his instinct and role should be to kick long , 1st to a loose player or to a space. This role should be spread amongst the better kickers or you can shut 1 player down.

I just think there can be tactics designed around role play and speed of ball movement.

 

[Thetrader15]

The other problem for us and the 'chaos ball' is you need good small forwards who can win a ground ball 1 on 1.

We have Betts and....

 

[GreyCrow]

The other problem for us and the 'chaos ball' is you need good small forwards who can win a ground ball 1 on 1.

We have Betts and....

Thats if Betts is on the ground and not in the air

 

[ABAB]

The chaos ball can easily counter by quickly putting it on the foot when the defender gets the football as all their players are running towards it. West Coast like to control it by foot out of defence so they fell into Port Power's tactic.

 

[mistylake]

I'd prefer playing on at all costs up the guts - hate the laboured over-possession slowed down tempo crap

Certainly not a great idea when you’re actually behind on the scoreboard.
Save it for the last 2 mins of a game when your 6 goals up.

 

[MRB37]

"Chaos ball" isn't much different than how the Bulldogs won the flag. It's the old "dump and chase" tactics from ice hockey where you just look to get the puck in your offensive half, rather than moving it and setting up plays. You don't need massive amounts of skill to play that way, just energy, speed and a willingness to contest.

I wonder if we have role players or its every man for themselves. Our handball chains look more like ' I dont want it' rather than giving the ball to a person in a better spot. If we had role players - players who have a defined attribute ie Smith. If a handballl finds Smith his instinct and role should be to kick long , 1st to a loose player or to a space. This role should be spread amongst the better kickers or you can shut 1 player down.

I just think there can be tactics designed around role play and speed of ball movement.

A lot of it is "2 steps back to go forward" type thinking. We keep guys behind the play, so if you've hit a brickwall moving forward then move it backwards to find another avenue, rather than just blasting it forward and turning it over. "Keep possession" is probably the #1 mantra for a lot of teams nowadays.

 

[MRB37]

I don't hate the idea of what Pyke is trying to implement, but we've been bogged down by the fumbles from playing too quickly, then massively over correcting and over-possessing and moving the ball too slowly. We've yet to find that nice balance, we did a bit against the Suns, but that's also because they allowed Smith to get off the chain, which the Hawks, Cats and Roos didn't. So we need to find a way to get him and Laird working when teams go to shut them down because teams don't mind letting Talia, Hartigan and Kelly get all the touches they want down back, because none of them will hurt you by foot.

Look at Collingwood, who run all day, but then if they need to they'll slow it down and shift the ball around by foot to find an avenue forward. They're probably 18 months ahead of us on that style, which also means they've added players in who fit that style, which we've really yet to do, and that's an issue where Pyke costs himself a bit because he's willing to let guys learn the style in the SANFL when there's an opportunity to learn it in the AFL. Players like Milera, Jones, McHenry, Doedee, Fogarty, Scholl, Hamill, McPherson, they will work playing that style, they've got legspeed, footskills and competitiveness. Greenwood will survive because he can play forward in today's game, guys like Kelly, Mackay, Douglas and Hartigan i'm less sure of.

 

[Carmo]

Did anyone hear on 5aa on Wednesday, someone from port saying that there plan was to deliberately not kick it near tall defenders and / or make it super difficult for tall defenders to mark, so kick along the ground etc??

Was pretty bizarre. Even if it works, why would you emphatically make that public?