Club History Please Identify: South Melbourne Players 1946 and 1950s Seconds Coach

[Michael Riley]

Hi all,

Here is another attempt at using the power of the crowd to identify some names in some old photos. As usual, the photos are part of the Boyles collection at the State Library and I have been working with Ken Mansell on writing an updated guide to the collection.

We have spent a considerable time on the collection already and all help is graciously appreciated.

Can anyone identify some other players in the 1946 South Melbourne Team.
This is probably a match from early in the season.

Cropped version of Photo by Charles boyles in SLV
Higher quality Version http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/32165


South Melbourne Junior Coach from the 1950s?

See South Melbourne 3rd team Photo at http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/16949

See South Melbourne 2nds team photo citrca 1951 at http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/17049

 

[Reggi05]

In the team photo left second row between billy Williams and Ron by water is Len Holland wore number 5 I have a copy of this photo without the fading

 

[Michael Riley]

Thanks Reggi,

Len Holland, 1st on left in middle row.

You may want to check if you have exactly the same image. Boyles often took two shots and I have found many instances of two near identical shots but with the heads turned or with kids in the background having moved.
In this case I know of two copies. The other is in the Museum at the MCG. You can tell which version you have by checking the action to the left of Ron Bywater. You will notice a slightly different scene.

The State Library copy is on the right. The Museum at the MCG has a large library of Boyles photos but it is not freely available (It's version is on the left and is not blurred).

 

[Michael Riley]

OK a bit more digging. Pat Bourke only played 4 games in 1946, so a quick look at rleague.stats.com identifys this match as

Round: 9 Venue: Junction Oval Date: Mon, 17-Jun-1946 2:30 PM Attendance: 38,000
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/1946/141619460617.html

That means the other players in the photo should be the following:
Baxter, Archie
Callick, Alf
Castles, Vic
Chambers, Wylie
Grossman, Don
King, Billy
Leith, Merv
Linden, Alan
Mears, Harry
Piggott, Max
Richards, Reg
Roulent, Tom
Tippett, Peter



South Melbourne
7.5.47
12.10.82
14.14.98
18.16.124
Richmond
3.4.22
6.8.44
12.15.87
15.20.110

 

[CAS79]

OK a bit more digging. Pat Bourke only played 4 games in 1946, so a quick look at rleague.stats.com identifys this match as

Round: 9 Venue: Junction Oval Date: Mon, 17-Jun-1946 2:30 PM Attendance: 38,000
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/1946/141619460617.html

That means the other players in the photo should be the following:
Baxter, Archie
Callick, Alf
Castles, Vic
Chambers, Wylie
Grossman, Don
King, Billy
Leith, Merv
Linden, Alan
Mears, Harry
Piggott, Max
Richards, Reg
Roulent, Tom
Tippett, Peter



South Melbourne
7.5.47
12.10.82
14.14.98
18.16.124
Richmond
3.4.22
6.8.44
12.15.87
15.20.110

Max piggott only died a couple of years ago, you can find his photo on the Swans website actually

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/tabid/7106/default.aspx?newsid=97823

That might help with a comparison.

Based on that he might. and I do say that with all due care, be next to Pat Bourke

I'll show this pic to my old man on Saturday he might know some of them but he was a little tacker at this point but he might pick a few of them.

 

[Michael Riley]

Thank you for that photo CAS79, I thought it looked more similar to the man back row, second right.

 

[CAS79]

Thank you for that photo CAS79, I thought it looked more similar to the man back row, second right.

Your an expert on comparison and that section of the photo for me is a bit blurred. Do you have photo recognition tech. We use it work sometimes..... If you can get a better pic of the photo I'll be cheeky and run it when the boss isn't looking.

 

[bedford]

Love all this stuff, Michael

 

[Reggi05]

Thanks on the photos, Len passed away in 1989, so cannot ask him I have met relatives of players from this era around though so will check

 

[Michael Riley]

Your an expert on comparison and that section of the photo for me is a bit blurred. Do you have photo recognition tech. We use it work sometimes..... If you can get a better pic of the photo I'll be cheeky and run it when the boss isn't looking.

I use Picasa and it has a facial recognetion feature, but it is certainly not definative.
Higher quality Version http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/32165

 

[TripleB]

In the team photo left second row between billy Williams and Ron by water is Len Holland wore number 5 I have a copy of this photo without the fading

When I saw this thread I immediately thought of you Reggi. Glad to see you'd already found it...

 

[basher williams]

Hello Michael I remember most of these players. I"ll list the ones I am sure of hopefully it will fill a few gaps.

Ron Bywater ; Alan Linden; Ron Clegg; Don Grossman ;?; Wylie Chambers ; ? ; Tom Roulent

Len Holland ; Bill King ; Jim Cleary ; Jack Graham ; Pat Bourke ; Reg Richards ; Vic Castles ; ? ;

Bill Williams ; Harry Mears ; ? ; ; ? ;

I think the player between Chambers and Roulent may be Max Piggot.
Mears transferred from collingwood and Roulent from North. Unusual in those days for a player to play with different clubs

 

[Michael Riley]

Thanks basher. That is a number of names that I did not have!,
I agree that Max Piggot is probably in the top row, and based on other photos, maybe Alf Callick is far right in the front row?

 

[Michael Riley]

There is another 1946 Team photo in the Boyles collection. It is quite a different team though.:
(Nankervis only played for South in 1946 and he is in the photo)

Original at SLV: http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/17005

Ron Bywater, Unknown,Unknown,Unknown,Ron Clegg, (Alan Linden),Unknown,Unknown,Unknown
Unknown,Vic Nankervis,Unknown,Unknown, Jack Graham (Captain), Unknown,(Bill King),Unknown
Len Holland,Billy Williams

 

[basher williams]

I dont recollect some of these. Tom roulent is on the top row last on right. Vic Castles is on the right of Bill King and Reg Richards on his left. "Basher" would have been in this photo but I think he was still doing time after his indescretions in the 45 grand final

 

[baja]

I dont recollect some of these. Tom roulent is on the top row last on right. Vic Castles is on the right of Bill King and Reg Richards on his left. "Basher" would have been in this photo but I think he was still doing time after his indescretions in the 45 grand final

I noticed you haven't posted much but Im loving the history lesson I hope you stick around..
Basher played more over on oval number 1 than at lakeside but will go down in folklore in the 'Bloodbath'.. Strange thing is after getting knocked out by the Carlton rat Chitty, then found himself in the middle of all the brawls knocking everyone out even ground invaders, half the team was rubbed out but he was never rubbed out for striking just abusive language.

 

[Reggi05]

Hello Michael I remember most of these players. I"ll list the ones I am sure of hopefully it will fill a few gaps.

Ron Bywater ; Alan Linden; Ron Clegg; Don Grossman ;?; Wylie Chambers ; ? ; Tom Roulent

Len Holland ; Bill King ; Jim Cleary ; Jack Graham ; Pat Bourke ; Reg Richards ; Vic Castles ; ? ;

Bill Williams ; Harry Mears ; ? ; ; ? ;

I think the player between Chambers and Roulent may be Max Piggot.
Mears transferred from collingwood and Roulent from North. Unusual in those days for a player to play with different clubs

Basher, did you see some of these guys play? If so what were they like?

 

[Michael Riley]

Thanks Basher.....OK..A tabulation of who played what match on the most recent photo makes it Round: 3, Junction Oval Date: Sat, 04-May-1946 2:45 PM Attendance: 25,000
(It helps that Nankervis only played 4 games for the year)

Players who played that gameshould also be in the photo. They are:
Blumfield, Max
Chambers, Wylie
Dempsey, Jack
Dowling, Doug
Duncan, Norm
Perrett, George
Roulent, Tom
Spokes, Larry
Stibbard, Neville
Tippett, Peter

Ron Bywater, Unknown,Unknown,Unknown,Ron Clegg, Alan Linden,Unknown,Wylie Chambers?,Tom Roulent
Unknown,Vic Nankervis,Unknown,Unknown, Jack Graham (Captain),Vic Castles,Bill King,Reg Richards
Len Holland,Billy Williams

South used 44 players for the season...
There were a few suspensions because of the 45 Grand Final, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_VFL_Grand_Final
Jim Cleary did not play a game till round 9, meaning that the first photo in this thread is his first game back
'Basher' Williams was suspended 12 matches which is why he is in neither of the photos.

 

[basher williams]

I noticed you haven't posted much but Im loving the history lesson I hope you stick around..
Basher played more over on oval number 1 than at lakeside but will go down in folklore in the 'Bloodbath'.. Strange thing is after getting knocked out by the Carlton rat Chitty, then found himself in the middle of all the brawls knocking everyone out even ground invaders, half the team was rubbed out but he was never rubbed out for striking just abusive language.

I was at the"Bloodbath"grand final baja. A few incidents I clearly remember. Laurie Nash knocking out Bob Chitty right in front of where I was standing. Ted Whitfield being chased by the umpire to report him and pulling off his jumper so that he couldnt get his number. Ken Hands lying on the ground after being king hit by Basher williams just before half time.He was stretchered off but fortunately for Carlton it wasnt during play, in which case. he wouldnt have been able to return ,which he did and became one of their match winners.
There seemed to be blues right throughout the game ,and with only one field umpire ,pretty hard to control.
South were favourites to win in a final four comp as it was then. It was North Melb"s first finals game ever and Carlton the first side to win a grand final from 4th position.
But the thing I most remember was the disappointment,but the long wait was well worth it

 

[basher williams]

Basher, did you see some of these guys play? If so what were they like?[/

Reggio . Theplayers I remember mostly. Jack Graham ,great mark long drop kick Ruckman and captain. Wore his no27 on my footy jumper. Ron Clegg outstanding ,great mark ,kick as well either foot. Once took 32 marks in a game,most of them contested,as everybody played one on one in those days. Alan Linden ,big ruckman,a battler. Vic Castles, flanker, speedy and skilful. Bill King. Tall winger ,fast,good mark and kick. Previous year with Ted Whitfield andHerb Matthews formed the best centreline in the comp. Ron Bywater chb, solid ,similar player to Craig Bolton. Billy Williams Just starting out on a long career. Don Grossman classy ruck and backman. Harry mears nippy little rover from Collingwood. Tom Roulent ,built like a tank ,solid on the backline. Reg Richards rover,very consistent. Some of the guys in the photo I dont recall

 

[Michael Riley]

I realy enjoyed reading your emails Basher, made the photo more than just a photo....thanks

 

[baja]

I was at the"Bloodbath"grand final baja. A few incidents I clearly remember. Laurie Nash knocking out Bob Chitty right in front of where I was standing. Ted Whitfield being chased by the umpire to report him and pulling off his jumper so that he couldnt get his number. Ken Hands lying on the ground after being king hit by Basher williams just before half time.He was stretchered off but fortunately for Carlton it wasnt during play, in which case. he wouldnt have been able to return ,which he did and became one of their match winners.
There seemed to be blues right throughout the game ,and with only one field umpire ,pretty hard to control.
South were favourites to win in a final four comp as it was then. It was North Melb"s first finals game ever and Carlton the first side to win a grand final from 4th position.
But the thing I most remember was the disappointment,but the long wait was well worth it

Great stuff.. I was going from stories from my dearly departed old man, my Pop played for South in the twenties and was one of the pioneers from Tasmania and responsible for bringing over some of our greats from Tas, the thing I remember most about the era of not being allowed to return to the field if you left it because of injury, are stories of my Pop, leaning over the boundary line at lakeside during play, receiving stitches from the doc above his eye from a clash then straight back into the contest,...My Dad was involved in the sly grog back in the days of pleasant sunday mornings. Cruising the little back lanes around Albert Park pushing bottles of beer through the outdoor dunny hatches. Im sure you know of these mornings.. He was close mates with a local taxi driver by the name of Normie Gent, or Jent.. Do you know of him?
Also Dad told me he played a few games for South when they scratched a team together when he was on leave from the army but I can't find any reference to it, would have been in the 50's but he loved the odd porky pie did my Dad but he seemed serious about this.. His name isn't on any list, Pops is of course.
And again, thanks for the great reads..

 

[bedford]

Porky pies, it runs in the family

 

[baja]

Porky pies, it runs in the family

True, I always say you're a nice bloke.

 

[basher williams]

Great stuff.. I was going from stories from my dearly departed old man, my Pop played for South in the twenties and was one of the pioneers from Tasmania and responsible for bringing over some of our greats from Tas, the thing I remember most about the era of not being allowed to return to the field if you left it because of injury, are stories of my Pop, leaning over the boundary line at lakeside during play, receiving stitches from the doc above his eye from a clash then straight back into the contest,...My Dad was involved in the sly grog back in the days of pleasant sunday mornings. Cruising the little back lanes around Albert Park pushing bottles of beer through the outdoor dunny hatches. Im sure you know of these mornings.. He was close mates with a local taxi driver by the name of Normie Gent, or Jent.. Do you know of him?
Also Dad told me he played a few games for South when they scratched a team together when he was on leave from the army but I can't find any reference to it, would have been in the 50's but he loved the odd porky pie did my Dad but he seemed serious about this.. His name isn't on any list, Pops is of course.
And again, thanks for the great reads..

Your dad sounds like he was a real character. I wonder if the Normie Gent he spoke about was the former top welterweight in the forties who had a series of wins against some top overseas fighters. From what I remember he was some sort of a character also