Draft Watcher PMBangers 2020 Draft Thread

[PMBangers]

Phantom Draft Round 1 (updated 9/12)

 

[Wild Bill]

I'd be disappointed if North wasted an early pick on a kpd like DGB. Intercept defenders are a dime a dozen and the best talls play forward as juniors - most of the best key defenders were recruited as forwards. McGovern, Tarrant, Sicily, Moore. We should go for Campbell. Phillips or Hollands with our first pick.

Agree with our 1st pick - but I would be fine taking DGB with pick 7-10. Not so sure about dime a dozen - the Haynes, Sicliys and Ridleys are game changers.

 

[PMBangers]

I'd be disappointed if North wasted an early pick on a kpd like DGB. Intercept defenders are a dime a dozen and the best talls play forward as juniors - most of the best key defenders were recruited as forwards. McGovern, Tarrant, Sicily, Moore. We should go for Campbell. Phillips or Hollands with our first pick.

DGB doesn't neglect his defensive responsibilities like a Haynes does to do his intercepting though, he's as good 1 on 1 as he is coming in for a mark.
I don't get how other good defenders playing forward as juniors should impact a decision on DGB.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

DGB doesn't neglect his defensive responsibilities like a Haynes does to do his intercepting though, he's as good 1 on 1 as he is coming in for a mark.
I don't get how other good defenders playing forward as juniors should impact a decision on DGB.

Not arguing against you, but this seems a deliberate coaching choice this year, given in past seasons Haynes seemed to play too tight to offer significant intercepting and rebound. If DGB can do both simultaneously that really elevates his stocks.

 

[rei154]

Hawthorn | Connor Downie (General Defender/ Winger, NGA)
Needs: Speed and class in midfield, KPF
Likely to have a top 5 pick, Hawks get a good chance to land one of the top KPF's in Thilthorpe and McDonald, as well as class through the midfield with Trew, Hollands and Phillips likely available. Then with their early second rounder guys like Zavier Maher, Jack Carroll, Jake Bowey with some speed and class should be looked at, and if he hasn't been bid on Brandon Walker bid is a must, Jackson Callow should also be considered

I think the club rates our KPF stocks currently- but is aware we are woeful at delivering into 50. Were the KPF's available I think we'd still be more likely to take a midfielder. Bruhn is someone who I've heard is quite good- is there much keeping him from top 5 consideration?

 

[PMBangers]

Not arguing against you, but this seems a deliberate coaching choice this year, given in past seasons Haynes seemed to play too tight to offer significant intercepting and rebound. If DGB can do both simultaneously that really elevates his stocks.

It is definitely a deliberate decision, and it's why Corr has been a permanent fixture this year. Haynes has to choose one or the other generally, DGB is showing he can do both

I think the club rates our KPF stocks currently- but is aware we are woeful at delivering into 50. Were the KPF's available I think we'd still be more likely to take a midfielder. Bruhn is someone who I've heard is quite good- is there much keeping him from top 5 consideration?

I'd say he is in top 5 consideration, my big concern is he hasn't played much footy in the past 2 years due to injury, but his U16 showings and the few he got last season were very good, just not better than Phillips, Holland's, Trew or O'Driscoll

 

[perplexed]

DGB doesn't neglect his defensive responsibilities like a Haynes does to do his intercepting though, he's as good 1 on 1 as he is coming in for a mark.
I don't get how other good defenders playing forward as juniors should impact a decision on DGB.

It's more that few of afl's best defenders were actually drafted as defenders and they are almost never drafted with such an early pick. DGB may be an exception.
North rarely get a pick so early in the draft, I would be disappointed if we finally got a chance to pick up an elite mid and went for a KPD instead.

 

[PMBangers]

It's more that few of afl's best defenders were actually drafted as defenders and they are almost never drafted with such an early pick. DGB may be an exception.
North rarely get a pick so early in the draft, I would be disappointed if we finally got a chance to pick up an elite mid and went for a KPD instead.

The second top 10 pick makes it so interesting for North, either way you'll be getting a top tier mid. The difference is gonna be between the KPP you pick up, whether it's McDonald or DGB with your first or Cox/ Reid with your second. Personally I like McDonald and DGB a lot more than the other two, and back that a high quality mid (or even one of those top tier mids of Hollands, Phillips, Trew, O'Driscoll or Bruhn) will be there at the second one.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

It's more that few of afl's best defenders were actually drafted as defenders and they are almost never drafted with such an early pick.

I think it is probably easier to teach players to read the game from behind the ball, which is why Irish imports and raw athletes tend to do better when developed there. That doesn't mean a kid who can already do it all isn't valuable - Weitering is a good example, probably being one of the few #1 picks to have a claim at being best in his draft.

 

[perplexed]

I think it is probably easier to teach players to read the game from behind the ball, which is why Irish kids and raw athletes tend to do better when developed there. That doesn't mean a kid who can already do it all isn't valuable - Weitering is a good example, probably being one of the few #1 picks to have a claim at being best in his draft.

He was the only one I could think of.

The way that the game is going, it is much easier to play in the backline. This year every team seems to have discovered a 'star' defender and the key forwards can't get near it.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

It's plausibly also the case that the best underage talls don't play in defence or ruck as much as forward and even midfield - but again that doesn't devalue a top prospect already playing in defence.

He was the only one I could think of.

There are more examples of high pick KPDs doing very well at whichever end in the AFL - Ben King, Aaron Naughton, Darcy Moore, to name a few from recent years.

 

[perplexed]

It's plausibly also the case that the best underage talls don't play in defence or ruck as much as forward and even midfield - but again that doesn't devalue a top prospect already playing in defence.
There are more examples of high pick KPDs doing very well at whichever end in the AFL - Ben King, Aaron Naughton, Darcy Moore, to name a few from recent years.

Were all those guys kpd in juniors? I know Ben King was, but that was only because his brother owned half the ground. Gc would have recruited him to play forward. I thought Moore was a forward, and still should be in my opinion (which nobody seems to agree with), despite being a gun defender.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

They were.

 

[PMBangers]

Bit of shifting around, each time I re-watch footage from last year or a new game from this year I like this draft more and more, far more optimistic on it now than I was a few months ago, my next rankings should be up by the end of the week with a different look compared to what I've been doing as I found the top 20 was filtering out vic kids that probably didn't deserve to be knocked out just because they're not playing

Also just realised I didn't knock Freo far enough back for their deficit so their pick would come after Carltons, still think both teams take who I have them taking

 

[briztoon]

View attachment 938698


Bit of shifting around, each time I re-watch footage from last year or a new game from this year I like this draft more and more, far more optimistic on it now than I was a few months ago, my next rankings should be up by the end of the week with a different look compared to what I've been doing as I found the top 20 was filtering out vic kids that probably didn't deserve to be knocked out just because they're not playing

I’ll admit I haven’t seen anything of Jack Carrol, so I don’t know what type of player he is, if he’s similar to an Eddie Ford or Archie Perkins type, he’d possibly be a consideration.

I really question if Kaine Baldwin is the type of forward we need.

Does he push Hipwood or McStay out of our best 22? Because that’s the only way I see him getting in the team.

We will play three talls, but one has to be a forward ruck, or ruck forward.

A Shannon Neale or Max Heath would be a far more likely prospect than a third tall type or height player.

 

[PMBangers]

I’ll admit I haven’t seen anything of Jack Carrol, so I don’t know what type of player he is, if he’s similar to an Eddie Ford or Archie Perkins type, he’d possibly be a consideration.

I really question if Kaine Baldwin is the type of forward we need.

Does he push Hipwood or McStay out of our best 22? Because that’s the only way I see him getting in the team.

We will play three talls, but one has to be a forward ruck, or ruck forward.

A Shannon Neale or Max Heath would be a far more likely prospect than a third tall type or height player.

I think Baldwin has it within his capacity to push out McStay eventually, being a strong lead up player and contested mark. Obviously with the knees it's hard to say whether he keeps that burst on the lead. The selection is a 50/50 for me as I considered Callow as well, but given his general lack of athleticism I'm not sure if he'd appeal to Brisbane.
Neale could be a good one and is showing good signs, but is lacking consistent scoreboard impact, so it'd be selecting him on the assumption he'll be more a ruck than a forward imo. Heath I haven't seen this year, and it seems his higher ranking comes from his practise match this season, so I'm not sure what his scope is to play forward, a viable selection though as a ruck prospect. If you guys go with 2 picks in the draft which seems to be the theory someone like Neale who has more recent runs on the board would be my choice as opposed to Baldwin or Heath

Carroll is less explosive than Ford and Perkins imo, but has a better kick and game sense, think he probably finds himself on a wing/ HFF at AFL level

 

[briztoon]

I think Baldwin has it within his capacity to push out McStay eventually, being a strong lead up player and contested mark. Obviously with the knees it's hard to say whether he keeps that burst on the lead. The selection is a 50/50 for me as I considered Callow as well, but given his general lack of athleticism I'm not sure if he'd appeal to Brisbane.
Neale could be a good one and is showing good signs, but is lacking consistent scoreboard impact, so it'd be selecting him on the assumption he'll be more a ruck than a forward imo. Heath I haven't seen this year, and it seems his higher ranking comes from his practise match this season, so I'm not sure what his scope is to play forward, a viable selection though as a ruck prospect. If you guys go with 2 picks in the draft which seems to be the theory someone like Neale who has more recent runs on the board would be my choice as opposed to Baldwin or Heath

Carroll is less explosive than Ford and Perkins imo, but has a better kick and game sense, think he probably finds himself on a wing/ HFF at AFL level

If he can take Mitch Robinson’s spot on the wing, and having a better kick is a huge tick, then he could be a genuine option.

 

[PMBangers]

If he can take Mitch Robinson’s spot on the wing, and having a better kick is a huge tick, then he could be a genuine option.

His tackling game would need improvement to really fill that Robbo role, but as an 18-year-old he'd have time to work on that and really shadow Robbo to learn the role well.
If you're on giantroo patreon he's got a GIF up of a Hayden Young esque kick from Carroll at the All-stars game last year, it really captures his vision and kicking ability well

 

[Turbocat]

View attachment 938698


Bit of shifting around, each time I re-watch footage from last year or a new game from this year I like this draft more and more, far more optimistic on it now than I was a few months ago, my next rankings should be up by the end of the week with a different look compared to what I've been doing as I found the top 20 was filtering out vic kids that probably didn't deserve to be knocked out just because they're not playing

Nice work... I'd think the Cats would consider Henry at 12 if they rate them close to each other. They do like their local talent, and you cant get much more local than a kid that lives within walking distance of the club.

 

[PMBangers]

August rankings with my new approach. Think this does well to still highlight VIC kids, top 5 for each of the Champs teams with Davies added.

Jack Carroll and Brandon Walker were close to making that WA top 5 having put in good performances this year and each being nice outside options.

Baldwin I haven't accounted for considering his knee issues, think he fits in as 3rd/4th in there with Jones comfortably overtaking him on this years performances so far, Cook was obviously considered after a good month of footy but Poulters consistency has him just ahead.

This is a good top 5 for the Allies and I'm pretty disappointed we won't see them together, not really any others challenging strongly to get in there.

VIC C and VIC M have minor changes with me rewatching some footage on my off days from Uni, started to really like Cox's kicking and vision especially from what I saw. Perkins was close to overtaking Ford but like Ford's contested game and build a bit more, Bailey Laurie as well was close. Zavier Maher I've liked for a while, him and Berry would've been contesting for a 6th country spot

 

[Sweet Jesus]

PMBangers Does Jack Carroll have scope to play midfield?

 

[PMBangers]

PMBangers Does Jack Carroll have scope to play midfield?

I would say so, good read of the ball and smooth mover in traffic, and a beautiful kick so he has a lot to offer, but certainly the lack of contested game would raise issues for me dependant on the team he goes to, think he'd need a really strong contested partner to thrive (Lazy comparison but an Adams/ Pendlebury type combo). I think more likely he ends up as a winger or high forward flanker where he should get enough uncontested opportunities

 

[eDPS]

PMBangers Does Jack Carroll have scope to play midfield?

Carroll has played pretty much full time midfield in the WAFL colts this year.

 

[PMBangers]

I'm generally getting less and less confident with these as I go with watching new footage and re-evaluating what I think a teams needs are. I'll admit as a phantom drafter I do get sucked into going for needs > best available generally and I think it reflects in the phantoms, so this one I've tried to be a bit looser with that.
Some of the weirder ones I'll address tho:
- O'Driscoll was great on the weekend in the midfield for Perths league team, he looks to have been working on his kicking, or at least I feel i'ts improved gradually through the year. Some might say he's similar to what they've got as an inside mid, and to an extent I agree, but overall if they're looking for a midfielder he's probably the best available
- Cox I don't feel is that big of a reach. Gold Coast need a guy thats gonna be able to match up on the 200cm type KPF's going into the future and I think Cox fits that bill better than DGB, they're both around the mark for the Suns pick
-I've been cautious of the Perkins hype personally, but I think it's obvious he's destined to go pretty high, considered him for every team from Essendon
-It was Neale or Baldwin and after reading some of the Brisbane board I think Neale is the better pick for them, as they need a prospect that's a good chance to fill both a KPF and Ruck role, again don't feel it's a massive reach, especially if they only take the two picks.

 

[Joao]

PMBangers

Would you send DGB to us if he wasn't from WA? Hard to justify on need.

 

[PMBangers]

PMBangers

Would you send DGB to us if he wasn't from WA? Hard to justify on need.

Yes, I don't see your KPD stocks as reliable enough injury wise currently, with very little depth (Ryan is not a KPD nor should he be forced to be) especially with O'Reilly delisted as well. DGB is a good prospect as a second/ third KPD going into the future, and could possibly start ahead of Hamling (assuming Pearce takes the number 1 opposition KPF, then DGB and Logue play on the 2nd/3rd with some freedom to roam.) I feel his distribution especially is under rated, and would add to that good user brigade alongside Young and Ryan, you could have some of the best defensive transition play in the league when he hits his straps. Alternatively I considered Zane Trew as a good stoppage player who could come in a shadow Mundy for a year or two and learn that craft, Perkins also wouldn't look at of place, but I still think he's behind Trew. I think the dream for Freo is O'Driscoll, especially as Mundy gets a bit older and Fyfe approaching 30, having that tall bid bodied midfielder coming through would be good