Draft Expert PMBangers' 2021 Draft Board - Come for the R1 phantom (post #1591), stay for the Simpsons references

Remove this Banner Ad

foodles05

Club Legend
Jun 12, 2015
2,543
4,293
AFL Club
Geelong
Sorry the above post didn't work with the reply thing but it was in regards to the question marks around Matty Roberts and his comparisons to Grigg.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Nov 7, 2017
27,654
53,308
Melbourne
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Manchester City, Collingwood AFLW
So can you share your question marks on Matty cause I'm really interested and maybe if you see the Grigg comparison as well?
Haven't watched Grigg anywhere near enough to draw a comparison at all, but on Roberts, he's lacking acceleration obviously and I've been unconvinced by his ball use and composure, especially since return from injury, so I guess I'm not totally convinced he translates as a midfielder at the next level, especially with the game trending towards more speed centric players. It's not like he wins a massive amount of contested ball either, if he upped that part of his game it'd make him a more appealing prospect for sure, but at the moment I think he ends up more of forward
 
Sep 9, 2008
34,925
52,844
adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Can you explain why to me I'm super interested? Also with regards to the M Grigg comparison can someone explain to me why they are alike apart from the obvious solid bodied left footed mids who aren't explosive?
Sorry the above post didn't work with the reply thing but it was in regards to the question marks around Matty Roberts and his comparisons to Grigg.
It was me that made the grigg comparison

basically I feel Roberts is slow, has those big hips / strong core and big left foot kick.

I just reckon he’s not gonna have the time to do enough in the afl where it’s pretty quick and will have the same problems grigg had there.
 

foodles05

Club Legend
Jun 12, 2015
2,543
4,293
AFL Club
Geelong
Haven't watched Grigg anywhere near enough to draw a comparison at all, but on Roberts, he's lacking acceleration obviously and I've been unconvinced by his ball use and composure, especially since return from injury, so I guess I'm not totally convinced he translates as a midfielder at the next level, especially with the game trending towards more speed centric players. It's not like he wins a massive amount of contested ball either, if he upped that part of his game it'd make him a more appealing prospect for sure, but at the moment I think he ends up more of forward

Fair enough. I suspect you'll be wrong on him and he will be an A grade mid at the next level. Too much assessment being done post injury this year when he isn't moving anywhere near as well as he can. For what it's worth I would say he is an absolute elite kick and have never seen anyone think different until your summation. He wins centre clearance and around ground clearance well. He isn't Libba or Wines in the contest but not many are. He moves as well as Pendles or Lyons or even neale when he is up and going so not that concerned about his pace.

However if you are mainly assessing on what you have seen post injury then I can understand your take. I suspect you won't be alone and he will drift a little but I know the Saints love him and I would love if he slides to Geelong. I think we will look back and wonder how he was taken so far down. Kid has extremely rare pure football ability and perhaps more importantly he will give himself the best opportunity possible to make a huge impact in the AFL.
 

foodles05

Club Legend
Jun 12, 2015
2,543
4,293
AFL Club
Geelong
It was me that made the grigg comparison

basically I feel Roberts is slow, has those big hips / strong core and big left foot kick.

I just reckon he’s not gonna have the time to do enough in the afl where it’s pretty quick and will have the same problems grigg had there.

Yeah very different in that Grigg's issue wasn't as much pace as it was repeat power running. He just couldn't cover the ground defensively or satisfy clubs (with his gps numbers) that he had worked hard enough on his endurance that he could compete both ways.

With Matty he can run a pretty handy 2k and has some pretty decent gps numbers. However he isn't explosive off the mark. I suspect if he was fully up and going though he could run sub 3.1 20 so he isn't slow just not explosive if that makes sense.

Anyway as I said above we will all know in hindsight. It's a game of opinions and that's the beauty of it.
 
Nov 7, 2017
27,654
53,308
Melbourne
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Manchester City, Collingwood AFLW
Got me.

Hough had a terrific game and plays down at Fremantle's allied club Peel. He looks like a decent hybrid mid-forward, and I would be happy if he joins us.
We see those athletic mid/ forwards bolt late in the season so often it wouldn't shock me to see him move into the first round, especially if he plays a good game v SA on Grand Final day
 
Nov 7, 2017
27,654
53,308
Melbourne
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Manchester City, Collingwood AFLW
Fair enough. I suspect you'll be wrong on him and he will be an A grade mid at the next level. Too much assessment being done post injury this year when he isn't moving anywhere near as well as he can. For what it's worth I would say he is an absolute elite kick and have never seen anyone think different until your summation. He wins centre clearance and around ground clearance well. He isn't Libba or Wines in the contest but not many are. He moves as well as Pendles or Lyons or even neale when he is up and going so not that concerned about his pace.

However if you are mainly assessing on what you have seen post injury then I can understand your take. I suspect you won't be alone and he will drift a little but I know the Saints love him and I would love if he slides to Geelong. I think we will look back and wonder how he was taken so far down. Kid has extremely rare pure football ability and perhaps more importantly he will give himself the best opportunity possible to make a huge impact in the AFL.
I don't think you're looking hard enough if I'm the first person you've seen raising these concerns, the acceleration particularly has been one I've seen since the early stages of this year.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Aug 9, 2019
38,058
64,944
Victorian Central Highlands
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Panthers, GWV Rebels, Central Augusta


It comes on the back of exciting news that this year’s Torrens University SA U19 team will play a further three matches, starting with a curtain-raiser to the AFL Grand Final against Western Australia at Perth’s Optus Stadium on Saturday September 25.
The Croweaters will then host the Allies (Northern Territory, Queensland and Tasmania) on Sunday October 3 as a curtain-raiser to the SANFL Reserves Grand Final at Adelaide Oval.
The Sandgropers will travel to Adelaide to face the Torrens University SA U19 team at Thebarton Oval on Sunday October 10.
 

Eastcoasteagle

Premiership Player
Oct 20, 2017
4,794
11,971
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Chelsea FC
Speaking of underrating sub 180cm prospects (god I'm great at transitions), this past week and a bit I've been focusing on 2022 draft prospects and watching back some vision (still need to watch more WA school footy so Cleaver and Busslinger in particular are potential big risers). Here's an early top 20;
View attachment 1231267
A few that were close to making this top 20 as well; Olivier Northam, Will Verrall, Mattaes Phillipou, Cody Harrington, Jaspa Fletcher, Mitchell Rowe, Kai Windsor, Luke Teal, all for various reasons. Think I've said it a bit before but I really like the look of next years draft early on and wouldn't be shocked to see teams in the teens try to trade into next year
Wow, this draft looks twice as good as this years with Hewitt at 12 and Hagan at 20.
We might be better trading picks into next year.
 
Nov 7, 2017
27,654
53,308
Melbourne
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Manchester City, Collingwood AFLW
Wow, this draft looks twice as good as this years with Hewitt at 12 and Hagan at 20.
We might be better trading picks into next year.
I have actually been wanting GWS to trade our Pick 13 for your future first rounder, I think that is far more favourable =)

but yes, I really rate next year early on, at the very least it'll be easier to figure out the order of players after the top 15 or so, also a really good draft for rucks
 
Aug 9, 2019
38,058
64,944
Victorian Central Highlands
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Panthers, GWV Rebels, Central Augusta
Yeah very different in that Grigg's issue wasn't as much pace as it was repeat power running. He just couldn't cover the ground defensively or satisfy clubs (with his gps numbers) that he had worked hard enough on his endurance that he could compete both ways.

With Matty he can run a pretty handy 2k and has some pretty decent gps numbers. However he isn't explosive off the mark. I suspect if he was fully up and going though he could run sub 3.1 20 so he isn't slow just not explosive if that makes sense.

Anyway as I said above we will all know in hindsight. It's a game of opinions and that's the beauty of it.
That wasn't my recollection of Mitch Grigg's junior footy even though it's a while ago now....endurance was his long suit and pace or lack thereof was his biggest issue.

I ddid a bit of checking back to convince myself my recollections were correct.

In fact he tested in the endurance events at the Combine in the top percentile back then 14.13 beep test and 10.29 3km time trial.


MITCH Grigg doesn't pretend to be something he's not.
"The type of player I am you sort of have to look past it a bit," he said of concerns about his pace, which this month could stop the midfield hardnut from being a first-round AFL draft selection.
"As much as I can work on it, I'm never going to have Cyril Rioli-type speed.
"I can get a bit quicker with weights and technique work but pace is never going to be my strong point.
"My game is to win the hard ball and feed it out to runaway players.
"I feel if I can do that I'm doing my job for the team."
Grigg does his job with stunning effect.
While he openly admits he will never be a speed machine, he starred in the endurance tests at the AFL draft combine, registering a 14.13 beep test and a 10.29 3km time trial.
 

nelk boys

Team Captain
Oct 17, 2020
471
1,210
AFL Club
Hawthorn
How would you compare Kobe Ryan to an Arlo Draper at the same age, who do you think has a larger scope of potential/improvement?
 
Nov 7, 2017
27,654
53,308
Melbourne
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Manchester City, Collingwood AFLW
How would you compare Kobe Ryan to an Arlo Draper at the same age, who do you think has a larger scope of potential/improvement?
Kobe Ryan probably doesn't have the same level of athleticism, or at the very least raw power, that Draper has, so his acceleration and leap aren't as good but I think his ball use is better and his capacity to play as a full time midfielder is already higher. Ryan is more versatile in general, he'll be one that can play in the back line, forward line or midfield to start with at the next level

EDIT: In terms of potential and improvement it's hard to compare given their different strengths, but Draper's explosive athleticism makes him more eye catching at the very least, I think he'll have higher highs than Ryan will but Ryan will have a more consistent impact across his career
 
21/09/21 - 'Tiers of Talent'
Nov 7, 2017
27,654
53,308
Melbourne
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Manchester City, Collingwood AFLW
I've found the talk of 'tiers' of talent this year particularly interesting, it's not really something I've considered in my past rankings, but this year I think it's almost necessary given that coming up with a top 25-30 is difficult when there's upwards of 20 guys battling out for those 20-30 spots that are all justifiable in any of them. Thought it was worthwhile just sharing what my personal first four tiers are given that I think they're the main realistic first round draft chances, with a couple of others in the next two tiers I know will be considered for first round selection as well, justifiably of course, but just not the way I'd go;

Tier 1; Jason Horne-Francis, Nick Daicos, Sam Darcy, Finn Callaghan

These 4 have been spoken about enough obviously, and I'm even starting to think that the gap between Callaghan and Horne-Francis isn't as big as some are saying, but it is genuinely bees dick in this region between them and all four are filling a role that is more and more sought after in the modern game, and the 3 mids had their 'style' for lack of a better term represented high up in the Brownlow on Sunday Night, it's a level I think is achievable for the 3 of them. I feel like I've seen more doubt about Darcy's credentials recently and the talk of him only being highly rated because of low KPP stocks in this years draft, I don't think that's accurate personally, there's more to his game than just taking marks and kicking goals, stuff like his ball use and ground level work in particular aren't effected by the level of opposition he's playing.

Tier 2; Josh Gibcus, Josh Ward, Ben Hobbs, Mac Andrew, Jye Amiss, Neil Erasmus, Josh Sinn

Again a lot has been said about majority of this group, I feel a lot of these guys could've pushed the top 4 a bit more with a champs/ full state league season and to me are all safe bets for the next level, with Mac Andrew being the only one I'm not super confident on turning into a good player, but that's only due to concerns over how much adding size to his frame would effect his play style/ tricks, but for his ceiling he has to be considered up around this region.

Tier 3; Darcy Wilmot, Tyler Sonsie, Campbell Chesser, Matthew Johnson, Arlo Draper, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Josh Rachele, Josh Goater

These are guys that to me probably only have 1 major concern in translating to the next level as good players, so whilst they're not as safe as the two higher tiers their potential in my eyes is relatively the same and in some cases higher. I think the major point of difference in my rankings and others with this group is going to be Darcy Wilmot, who I've touched on briefly before but I think his defensive focus and application mixed with his ball use and above average athleticism are going top make him a very handy best 22 player, and that's worst case scenario, and with his noted leadership he could end up one of those guys that plays 200+ games and is widely underrated outside his own supporter base but one of the most highly rated internally types. From a personal point of view as a GWS fan, even with Fahey coming in and our depth in medium defenders already I wouldn't be overly disappointed with Wilmot as a selection because I think he's really safe.

Tier 4; Matthew Roberts, Sam Butler, Mitch Owens, Mitch Knevitt, Rhett Bazzo, Jacob van Rooyen, Tom Brown, Zac Taylor, Jesse Motlop

Similar to tier 3 in the sense that these guys have perhaps one major question mark, or in some cases no trait that stand outs as elite but are probably going to be AFL level players. Separating these guys from the above tier was difficult to figure because most aren't really that far behind in my eyes but I'm less certain they translate to AFL level, Roberts is one I've touched on and others have to but I've found the more I watch of him, that's at the start of the year in the 18's as well, the less I'm convinced. I think his footy brain is up there but again the athleticism is the major concern
 
Aug 9, 2019
38,058
64,944
Victorian Central Highlands
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Panthers, GWV Rebels, Central Augusta
I've found the talk of 'tiers' of talent this year particularly interesting, it's not really something I've considered in my past rankings, but this year I think it's almost necessary given that coming up with a top 25-30 is difficult when there's upwards of 20 guys battling out for those 20-30 spots that are all justifiable in any of them. Thought it was worthwhile just sharing what my personal first four tiers are given that I think they're the main realistic first round draft chances, with a couple of others in the next two tiers I know will be considered for first round selection as well, justifiably of course, but just not the way I'd go;

Tier 1; Jason Horne-Francis, Nick Daicos, Sam Darcy, Finn Callaghan

These 4 have been spoken about enough obviously, and I'm even starting to think that the gap between Callaghan and Horne-Francis isn't as big as some are saying, but it is genuinely bees dick in this region between them and all four are filling a role that is more and more sought after in the modern game, and the 3 mids had their 'style' for lack of a better term represented high up in the Brownlow on Sunday Night, it's a level I think is achievable for the 3 of them. I feel like I've seen more doubt about Darcy's credentials recently and the talk of him only being highly rated because of low KPP stocks in this years draft, I don't think that's accurate personally, there's more to his game than just taking marks and kicking goals, stuff like his ball use and ground level work in particular aren't effected by the level of opposition he's playing.

Tier 2; Josh Gibcus, Josh Ward, Ben Hobbs, Mac Andrew, Jye Amiss, Neil Erasmus, Josh Sinn

Again a lot has been said about majority of this group, I feel a lot of these guys could've pushed the top 4 a bit more with a champs/ full state league season and to me are all safe bets for the next level, with Mac Andrew being the only one I'm not super confident on turning into a good player, but that's only due to concerns over how much adding size to his frame would effect his play style/ tricks, but for his ceiling he has to be considered up around this region.

Tier 3; Darcy Wilmot, Tyler Sonsie, Campbell Chesser, Matthew Johnson, Arlo Draper, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Josh Rachele, Josh Goater

These are guys that to me probably only have 1 major concern in translating to the next level as good players, so whilst they're not as safe as the two higher tiers their potential in my eyes is relatively the same and in some cases higher. I think the major point of difference in my rankings and others with this group is going to be Darcy Wilmot, who I've touched on briefly before but I think his defensive focus and application mixed with his ball use and above average athleticism are going top make him a very handy best 22 player, and that's worst case scenario, and with his noted leadership he could end up one of those guys that plays 200+ games and is widely underrated outside his own supporter base but one of the most highly rated internally types. From a personal point of view as a GWS fan, even with Fahey coming in and our depth in medium defenders already I wouldn't be overly disappointed with Wilmot as a selection because I think he's really safe.

Tier 4; Matthew Roberts, Sam Butler, Mitch Owens, Mitch Knevitt, Rhett Bazzo, Jacob van Rooyen, Tom Brown, Zac Taylor, Jesse Motlop

Similar to tier 3 in the sense that these guys have perhaps one major question mark, or in some cases no trait that stand outs as elite but are probably going to be AFL level players. Separating these guys from the above tier was difficult to figure because most aren't really that far behind in my eyes but I'm less certain they translate to AFL level, Roberts is one I've touched on and others have to but I've found the more I watch of him, that's at the start of the year in the 18's as well, the less I'm convinced. I think his footy brain is up there but again the athleticism is the major concern
What tier is Kai? :fire::)
 
May 17, 2018
64
45
AFL Club
Carlton


It comes on the back of exciting news that this year’s Torrens University SA U19 team will play a further three matches, starting with a curtain-raiser to the AFL Grand Final against Western Australia at Perth’s Optus Stadium on Saturday September 25.
The Croweaters will then host the Allies (Northern Territory, Queensland and Tasmania) on Sunday October 3 as a curtain-raiser to the SANFL Reserves Grand Final at Adelaide Oval.
The Sandgropers will travel to Adelaide to face the Torrens University SA U19 team at Thebarton Oval on Sunday October 10.
Does that mean it will go back to under 16s and 18s next year? Bit rough on the 16s from this year who missed out due to being an under 17s, now they potentially miss again being bottom age 18s. The top tier ones will be selected but others wont get any state footy until draft year.
 
Apr 1, 2008
14,748
17,336
NASA
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Coburg
Does that mean it will go back to under 16s and 18s next year? Bit rough on the 16s from this year who missed out due to being an under 17s, now they potentially miss again being bottom age 18s. The top tier ones will be selected but others wont get any state footy until draft year.
The Champs aren't changing, which suggests it's just the SA hubs shifting focus to the U16/18 under-agers this year who will be U17/19 top-agers next year.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back