The Law Police

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ShanDog

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Did just see this report actually: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2019/06/14/phoenix-police-release-report-controversial-response-shoplifting-incident/1461089001/

Seems like a cluster. The mother and father were most likely scared because the father did steal something petty and then the cops reacted way over the top to their understandably nervous behaviour. The language some of the police used during the arrest was just plain unprofessional and dumb. If that's their attitude, it's in need of serious adjustment.

Mayor of Phoenix says they are fast-tracking body cams for all police. Good.
 

Goosecat

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Yikes indeed. I know I should be looking for myself but were they under the impression they were dealing with armed people (i.e. from the report they were responding to) or something? Otherwise they've seemingly gone 0-100 in 2.5 seconds.
I think what's missing probably has a bit to do with the response. The trouble with so much of the quick grab, easily manipulated pieces of information disseminated for a particular point of view nowadays is everyone is watching, commenting and influencing, even those who can't conceptualize and extrapolate beyond their own, very often, limited capabilities.
The cop is obviously both angry and scared. These guys face guns and lunatics every day, including mothers and fathers who'll play the innocent, crying victim role and place children in harms way, it's not like sweet home Australia and cops get killed, regularly (over 50 officers were killed last year).
The video is shot in a lot seemingly back near the accused offenders home judging by the neighbor grabbing the kids and saying she's a neighbor. I'm no psychic but I'm guessing that's a least some distance from the shop they are accused of stealing from. I'll warrant the cops have picked up the car near the home and flashed their lights or staged the siren or both and they haven't pulled straight over. Instead the driver has decided to ignore it and make it back home.
Now the cops are pi**ed and suspicious. In their minds they have probable thieves in motion, now failing to comply directly with police, knowing full well they are expected to stop immediately. Then for whatever reason the driver doesn't show his hands out the window or door (that is expected and known over there "put your hands where I can see them"). Why? because practically everybody has a gun. That is what the cop is focused on, concerened, angry and scared about a perpetrator who has now failed to comply in his mind, multiple times. Cops are trained to always be wary of anyone failing to comply. Put simply, most law abiding citizens do so. It's the ones that don't that end up being dangerous.
Now you can argue over the response level all you like, but nobody has sought to put those pieces together in the "social media expert" world of enlightened, educated judges and juries. I have no doubt this exact type of scenario or similar has played out in the US with the driver suddenly going for a gun. Policing in the US, is policing in the wild west.
 
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ShanDog

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I think what's missing probably has a bit to do with the response. The trouble with so much of the quick grab, easily manipulated pieces of information disseminated for a particular point of view nowadays is everyone is watching, commenting and influencing, even those who can't conceptualize and extrapolate beyond their own, very often, limited capabilities.
The cop is obviously both angry and scared. These guys face guns and lunatics every day, including mothers and fathers who'll play the innocent, crying victim role and place children in harms way, it's not like sweet home Australia and cops get killed, regularly (over 50 officers were killed last year).
The video is shot in a lot seemingly back near the accused offenders home judging by the neighbor grabbing the kids and saying she's a neighbor. I'm no psychic but I'm guessing that's a least some distance from the shop they are accused of stealing from. I'll warrant the cops have picked up the car near the home and flashed their lights or staged the siren or both and they haven't pulled straight over. Instead the driver has decided to ignore it and make it back home.
Now the cops are pi**ed and suspicious. In their minds they have probable thieves in motion, now failing to comply directly with police, knowing full well they are expected to stop immediately. Then for whatever reason the driver doesn't show his hands out the window or door (that is expected and known over there "put your hands where I can see them"). Why? because practically everybody has a gun. That is what the cop is focused on, concerened, angry and scared about a perpetrator who has now failed to comply in his mind, multiple times. Cops are trained to always be wary of anyone failing to comply. Put simply, most law abiding citizens do so. It's the ones that don't that end up being dangerous.
Now you can argue over the response level all you like, but nobody has sought to put those pieces together in the "social media expert" world of enlightened, educated judges and juries. I have no doubt this exact type of scenario or similar has played out in the US with the driver suddenly going for a gun. Policing in the US, is policing in the wild west.
Regarding the specifics, the police report story is in the link I posted.
 

Goosecat

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Regarding the specifics, the police report story is in the link I posted.
Well that's ironically close to my "guesstimate" of what probably when on. It's almost as if common sense and at least a basic level of intelligence could have worked it out from nothing more than a 60 sec clip of the very end.
I wonder how much of those 2 qualities the average social media justice warriors and influencers have. Obviously it's a superb idea to build societal responses around such. I mean the intellect and quality of analytical response is always so impressive.
 

ShanDog

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Well that's ironically close to my "guesstimate" of what probably when on. It's almost as if common sense and at least a basic level of intelligence could have worked it out from nothing more than a 60 sec clip of the very end.
I wonder how much of those 2 qualities the average social media justice warriors and influencers have. Obviously it's a superb idea to build societal responses around such. I mean the intellect and quality of analytical response is always so impressive.
Sure, it was similar. However, the main issue is whether they overreacted and whether their conduct was appropriate.
 

ShanDog

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One to think about for those who don't understand why police fire on people with knives or don't understand the reality of these situations.

 

Judd2Sewell

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One to think about for those who don't understand why police fire on people with knives or don't understand the reality of these situations.

They are trained to stay 6m away at a minimum from someone with a weapon.

It is impossible to draw a gun and fire in the time it takes for an average person, with the motivation to do harm, to close the distance.

Sometimes tasers do nothing, or not enough, especially to people with baggy clothes/jumpers on. And pepper spray can take up to a minute to really take effect.

I don't envy anyone that's put in that situation.
 

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ShanDog

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Wait, you’re saying you can wear 6 hits and stay up? Mate, he isn’t Michael Myers!
Mate, I'm not saying he took all six to the chest, but yes, people have taken more than six and kept fighting before, and I'm not even talking about the ones on drugs.

All depends on where you get hit, with what and from what distance. Bullets come in all shapes and sizes, different construction types and different amounts of powder used. Then the weapon platform they are fired from affects the energy of the round as it strikes you depending on the distance.

TV isn't real life.
 

demondavey

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Mate, I'm not saying he took all six to the chest, but yes, people have taken more than six and kept fighting before, and I'm not even talking about the ones on drugs.

All depends on where you get hit, with what and from what distance. Bullets come in all shapes and sizes, different construction types and different amounts of powder used. Then the weapon platform they are fired from affects the energy of the round as it strikes you depending on the distance.

TV isn't real life.
No I am not disagreeing I am just more so surprised. I thought one bullet would be enough to stop someone. If anything the pain would be extreme?
 

ShanDog

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No I am not disagreeing I am just more so surprised. I thought one bullet would be enough to stop someone. If anything the pain would be extreme?
Sometimes. Again, depends on a lot of factors.

When you're that amped up, the pain of being hit can be almost completely dulled. That's what our bodies do naturally and for good reason.
 

demondavey

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Fortunately not, but I know several people who have and I've have been a soldier for 16 years. I love marksmanship and while not a gun nut, have a very good understanding of firearms and their effect.
Hopefully you enjoy your job and stay as safe as possible
 

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