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relevant to what exactly? i find it relevant that if this young crim had not been trying to stab a police officer he would not have been shot and I think character of the two people involved is relevant and you think it is more important to protest about someone being shot rather than keep them away from a lifestyle that will only end up in prison or death? also it is very relevant that despite the government pouring in millions and millions of dollars into these communities there is still so much disfunction and misery? and it might not be relevant but its certainly ironic that aboriginal women are getting bashed to death eight times more than the average Australian women yet no one (including the aboriginal Community) do anything about it.
 

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Number37 said:
When you sign up to be a cop what do you think it's going to be like?
Rainbows and lollipops or dealing with criminals every day.
Too many FIGJAMs masquerading as law enforcement.
The disparity between what they are paid and what they think they are worth probably explains the rampant corruption.
Contrary to some of the posts in this thread, they don't have a licence to kill and should be held accountable for their actions, particularly where someone dies as a result.
There is a clear lack of confidence in law enforcement doing its job responsibility, who's to blame for that?
Click to expand...


I agree with most of these points, however the corruption in the force is actually quite small despite rumours and/or the odd bad egg, but that is not the main reason for the post.

One of my friends is a career cop and is a station sergeant in country NSW.
One of the biggest challenges he faces with commanding and leading younger cops is working with the new policies in relation to the evolving culture of political correctness, OH&S, non-discrimination in respect to peoples rights and opinions, inclusiveness etc. etc.
He says it's not the actual polices themselves that are the real problem, it's the poor attitudes, false expectations and sometimes pure incompetence that these young cops can and do have as a result of all this.

He also told me that some of the cadet training modules and exercises that include; Crisis management, Grief counselling; Advanced weapons, Dealing with injured or dead persons, that were once 'Mandatory' are now 'Optional' - and cadets can choose not to undertake any or all of these if they are traumatized or feel threatened from the initial specific course brief.
Conversely, some of the newer modules include: Protecting the environment, Understanding inclusiveness, Resolve without force, etc.

Accordingly, he reckons a lot young cops do not receive the critical training they should and together with the 'new policies' they are often not prepared mentally for what happens in the real World.


NB. I successfully sued the WA police about 12 years ago for negligence, so as an organistion they aren't exactly on the top of my Christmas card list...
 
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ShanDog said:
Where did your 100% of police are corrupt figure come from? That's what my comments referred to. It's irrelevant if you didn't get the reference.
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So you don't understand, or want to consider, the context of my answer but you decided to play the man anyway.
Interesting.

The question was:
"From your knowledge what percentage are corrupt?"

I expressed a view that police have an image problem. Which is roughly what the latest part of this discussion is about.
Some of that image problem stems from people, like me, holding the view that, 100% of police are corrupt.

You are going to do a hell of a lot better if your intention is to demonstrate otherwise.
You could probably start by giving the play-the-man a miss.
 
Number37 said:
So you don't understand, or want to consider, the context of my answer but you decided to play the man anyway.
Interesting.

The question was:
"From your knowledge what percentage are corrupt?"

I expressed a view that police have an image problem. Which is roughly what the latest part of this discussion is about.
Some of that image problem stems from people, like me, holding the view that, 100% of police are corrupt.

You are going to do a hell of a lot better if your intention is to demonstrate otherwise.
You could probably start by giving the play-the-man a miss.
Click to expand...
You're insane. Or a troll. Your interpretation of the question is not something that s normal person would come away with, and your answer is objectively stupid too. Threadban.
 
Ron The Bear said:
Imagine having to inform strangers that loved ones or relatives have died, and deal with the reaction. You couldn't pay me enough to do that job.
Click to expand...

I have been a reluctant consular witness to a few of these tragic door knock announcements overseas many years ago - not easy to forget the reactions of some people who were either screaming in denial or just standing there like zombies.

The reality today, according to copper mate, is sadly such tragic news sometimes arrives via social media platforms ahead of visits from authorities, which he says usually results in pure anger and unnecessary additional trauma for those grieving a loss...
 

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deanc said:
He also told me that some of the cadet training modules and exercises that include; Crisis management, Grief counselling; Advanced weapons, Dealing with injured or dead persons, that were once 'Mandatory' are now 'Optional' - and cadets can choose not to undertake any or all of these if they are traumatized or feel threatened from the initial specific course brief.
Conversely, some of the newer modules include: Protecting the environment, Understanding inclusiveness, Resolve without force, etc.
Click to expand...

How can he say policies aren't a problem in light of the above? "Too traumatised to be trained"... you're a policeman FFS! Out!!

Surely all cadets should receive the same basic training?
 
Ron The Bear said:
How can he say policies aren't a problem in light of the above? "Too traumatised to be trained"... you're a policeman FFS! Out!!

Surely all cadets should receive the same basic training?
Click to expand...


Let's get one thing clear, he and other experienced coppers are struggling to adopt and adapt to these new polices and are currently tabling reports of how this is affecting the mindset and competence of those entering the force. Also note most of this new policy has been introduced by the police unions.

Policy. I think he is saying he understands the intention of the new policies, because according to the related unions, without such policies the number of new recruits could drop significantly.
Training. Although he doesn't agree that some essential training modules are no longer 'mandatory', again according to the related unions, without providing module 'options' then the drop-out rate of cadets would also increase.

When I suggested he's just an old dinosaur that is struggling with change - he glared at me and told me a related consequence where he had a young police women transferred from the city to his station last year who turned up without a sidearm..?
Apparently she has been somehow granted 'an exemption' not to carry one !!!!
 
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deanc said:
Let's get one thing clear, he and other experienced coppers are struggling to adopt and adapt to these new polices and are currently tabling reports of how this is affecting the mindset and competence of those entering the force. Also note most of this new policy has been introduced by the police unions.

Policy. I think he is saying he understands the intention of the new policies, because according to the related unions, without such policies the number of new recruits could drop significantly.
Training. Although he doesn't agree that some essential training modules are no longer 'mandatory', again according to the related unions, without providing module 'options' then the drop-out rate of cadets would also increase.

When I suggested he's just an old dinosaur that is struggling with change - he glared at me and told me a related consequence where he had a new police women transferred from the city to his station last year who turned up without a sidearm..?
Apparently she has been somehow granted 'an exemption' not to carry one !!!!
Click to expand...
Unarmed police may be useful in making the focus on de escalation rather than intimidation though..
 
deanc said:
Policy. I think he is saying he understands the intention of the new policies, because according to the related unions, without such policies the number of new recruits could drop significantly.
Training. Although he doesn't agree that some essential training modules are no longer 'mandatory', again according to the related unions, without providing module 'options' then the drop-out rate of cadets would also increase.
Click to expand...

Haven’t heard that, but if it’s the case then the laws of supply and demand should take effect and pay should be increased commensurate with the job.

Let’s have a dedicated police force to protect us, not one divided into strong and weak. The former will tire of carrying the latter, inviting criminals to gradually assume control.
 
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Crankyhawk said:
Unarmed police may be useful in making the focus on de escalation rather than intimidation though..
Click to expand...

Ron The Bear said:
They need to be prepared for all contingencies. If they only want to sweet-talk, let them be social workers instead.
Click to expand...

Correct.
Although, deescalation without intimidation used to be a common strategy in the past that would sometimes be effective, but it rarely is these days. In Tassie, cops generally didn't start wearing sidearms until the mid 90's, why?

Because back in the 'good old days' police were mostly dealing with drunk angry people who, despite their personality or other issues, still maintained an ability of rational thought, being aware of their surroundings, situation and consequence. Quite often just the presence of a police uniform would change their involvement in an issue or the related circumstances.
They still copped abuse; 'you filthy pigs' etc. but rarely was their life threatened.

Fast forward to today, with the increasing trend of using party drugs/chemical substances over alcohol and suddenly, in most cases, you're dealing with a entirely different person.
People high on Meth or similar rarely have the ability of any rational thought, so when they get angry escalation with violence is usually the result, irrespective of their surroundings or situation or consequences, even if there are police present.
We have all read the tragic family murders that are sometimes, not always, committed by people high on drugs. These are people killing their own partners and/or kids FFS, so what chance does an unarmed copper have of 'deescalation' by inviting these people to sit down and discuss their issues?
 
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deanc said:
Correct.
Although, deescalation without intimidation used to be a common strategy in the past that would sometimes be effective, but it rarely is these days. In Tassie, cops generally didn't start wearing sidearms until the mid 90's, why?
Click to expand...

the port arthur massacre happened
 
woota said:
the port arthur massacre happened
Click to expand...

That's true, although I think most Tassie coppers were wearing sidearms before PA, but it does reinforce my point of why 'deescalation' in the real world of policing (which still should be a first effort) is rarely an effective enforcement tool, specifically these days.

C'mon Martin, put the gun down mate, let's have a coffee and a quiet chat - would that have worked and saved 35 lives and injuries to 23 others...?
 
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