Political Discussion #3 - "Tax Relief So Working Australians Keep More Of Their Money But Not For A Really Long Time Bill 2019"

Elite Crow

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So one group is cheerleading a party and an ideology that's causing the economy to go bad, whilst lambasting the other group for cheerleading that the country is going to go bad. Hmmm :think:
So the Libs are causing the economy to go bad 🤔

What was that article someone posted about the impending global recession?

What about the trade war, the Libs are surely responsible for that too.

What we do know is the measures Labor wanted to adopt would have put a handbrake on investment, the property market and the economy. So yeah they were the solution.

What we are lambasting is losers who because their party lost want a recession and somehow would use that as proof their party had the right policies even though there’s no basis for it.
 

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Bicks

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There's only ever lots of comments on here when people are slinging s**t at one another, its almost like that's what people are on here for, as opposed to offering up and learning about stuff that will affect the future of Australia. Hmmm :think:
"Offering up and learning about stuff that will affect the future of Australia" 😴

You sure do have a good opinion of yourself.

One problem...I'm not buying what you're selling.
 

Carmo

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An intermittent reminder about a few economics things, from Carmo:
There is no debt.
There is no debt for Australia, nor NZ, nor the US, nor Canada, nor China.
Countries can't be in debt in their own currencies.
Even if there was a heap of govt spending in the next few years over and above tax take there STILL wouldn't be any debt (in Oz $)
There cant be any debt, in Australian dollars, for the Australian govt, it's not possible.
Imagine if there was no debt for Australia and those other countries and in fact being in debt wasn't possible, imagine the possibilities!?!?
The Australian govt is the creator of Australian dollars, it can't be in debt in them.
If you can create dollars it opens a whole can of worms like
-first and foremost how much money should it create, less, more, other?
-second is what to do with that money, especially if it creates more
-thirdly what will happen to the private sector as a result
-why does an entity that creates money need to save it (get a surplus)
- why do you need to collect taxes if you can just create the money instead

Monetary Theory and policy (adjusting interest rates to modulate growth) never works in the long term and frequently doesn't work in the short either.
Get this out of your heads as an option to improve the economy. It won't work, it will do next to nothing. Ditto tax cuts. Ditto investment encouragement.

Surpluses encourage recessions, especially if you have a current account deficit (which we do)
The govt needs to put as much money in to the economy as the foreign sector takes out via the current account deficit
If it doesn't the amount of money in the economy decreases, eventually taking GDP with it, which is happening now
A current account below 10% of GDP is very manageable and not harmful to the economy at all, so don't blame that, ours has been between 2-4%

The national economy is not like a household, it does not need to save (surplus) and in fact a surplus is a deficit to the economy (as stated above).
A deficit equal to the current account deficit is where the country should aim (at minimum).
No debt accumulates as a result of running the deficit (as above).

Once the current account has taken enough money out to cause a recession, there are very few options to actually fix the economy other than govt spending to put money back in. This is the future we face.

Dont dribble back to me about foreign reserves problems or hyperinflation as a result of the above, both are easily manageable. Yes, creating too much money would cause some inflation, even what some would consider high inflation like 6-10%, but at that point, or when its 2-4%, its up to whoever manages the economy really, you stop creating the money don't you, the inflation pauses and or retreats, its not rocket science.
 

Carmo

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So the Libs are causing the economy to go bad 🤔

What was that article someone posted about the impending global recession?

What about the trade war, the Libs are surely responsible for that too.

What we do know is the measures Labor wanted to adopt would have put a handbrake on investment, the property market and the economy. So yeah they were the solution.

What we are lambasting is losers who because their party lost want a recession and somehow would use that as proof their party had the right policies even though there’s no basis for it.
Labors handbrake bad, Liberals handbrake good. Now I've heard it all.

Impending means it hasn't happened yet. So why is the economy going bad already, just getting into character?

Australia's trade conditions are as good as they've been in a decade, so that's definitely not the issue is it?

Don't give me that dribble about what you are lambasting. Stop hiding behind a moral high ground position you think we cant all see through. You've just found a nice little "think of the children" position and framed it so that you can use it to protect the party you support even though the country is falling down all around us.

You know what losers do? They don't admit they have problems. Stop cheerleading naively for a flawed ideology and just admit its problems, that's the first step to not being a loser, after you admit that then we'll see what else we can improve.
 

Carmo

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A great article on empirical evidence for recent heating of the planet, very hard to refute, written as a bet for Malcolm Roberts to take up since he thinks the empirical data is all fudged...

here
 

kirky

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Labors handbrake bad, Liberals handbrake good. Now I've heard it all.

Impending means it hasn't happened yet. So why is the economy going bad already, just getting into character?

Australia's trade conditions are as good as they've been in a decade, so that's definitely not the issue is it?

Don't give me that dribble about what you are lambasting. Stop hiding behind a moral high ground position you think we cant all see through. You've just found a nice little "think of the children" position and framed it so that you can use it to protect the party you support even though the country is falling down all around us.

You know what losers do? They don't admit they have problems. Stop cheerleading naively for a flawed ideology and just admit its problems, that's the first step to not being a loser, after you admit that then we'll see what else we can improve.
Agree, the first stage is to admit you have a problem - the problem with a couple of right wing posters is they will blame everyone else (global recession, trade wars) rather than look in their own house.

This government has only one goal at the moment - a budget surplus and why? Because they can then spin it against their political opponents with the help of the Murdoch papers. Bugger what happens to peoples lives, they simply don't care who it damages.

All the economic stats project we are on the way to a recession, the world might not get there but unless there is a change in policy settings and direction, we are likely to get there. If we do, there is only one party who has full ownership of it - the Liberals.
 

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Elite Crow

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Labors handbrake bad, Liberals handbrake good. Now I've heard it all.

Impending means it hasn't happened yet. So why is the economy going bad already, just getting into character?

Australia's trade conditions are as good as they've been in a decade, so that's definitely not the issue is it?

Don't give me that dribble about what you are lambasting. Stop hiding behind a moral high ground position you think we cant all see through. You've just found a nice little "think of the children" position and framed it so that you can use it to protect the party you support even though the country is falling down all around us.

You know what losers do? They don't admit they have problems. Stop cheerleading naively for a flawed ideology and just admit its problems, that's the first step to not being a loser, after you admit that then we'll see what else we can improve.
Did I say Libs have a handbrake? So what have you actually heard on your fantasy land?

There’s been plenty of commentary about debt, whinging that the Libs have increased debt. So what’s this handbrake you speak of?

One party went to the election with plenty of handbrakes, one didn’t.

Both parties said they would have a surplus, so you can’t use that either.

What’s caused the current state of the economy? One would be the tightening of credit, meaning less houses being sold, less cars being sold and the flow on effects. The Libs are now loosening the shackles there.

Energy prices is another issue, feel good measures that increase prices should be avoided.

I’ve told you what I’ve lambasted lefty losers who thought they had it won who are cheering for the economy to turn to s**t. I couldn’t be clearer than that. Now that is not only a sore loser it’s a spiteful nasty selfish loser.
 

Elite Crow

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Agree, the first stage is to admit you have a problem - the problem with a couple of right wing posters is they will blame everyone else (global recession, trade wars) rather than look in their own house.

This government has only one goal at the moment - a budget surplus and why? Because they can then spin it against their political opponents with the help of the Murdoch papers. Bugger what happens to peoples lives, they simply don't care who it damages.

All the economic stats project we are on the way to a recession, the world might not get there but unless there is a change in policy settings and direction, we are likely to get there. If we do, there is only one party who has full ownership of it - the Liberals.
Except Labor also said they would deliver a surplus, so next bulls**t point you want to make?
 

kirky

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kirky

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Yes, the ALP would deliver a surplus by bringing in measures that the electorate rejected. Excess franking credits, changes to negative gearing.

Some people actually need to do their homework and engage their brain (unless of course they have recently had a labotomy).
 

Elite Crow

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Yes, the ALP would deliver a surplus by bringing in measures that the electorate rejected. Excess franking credits, changes to negative gearing.

Some people actually need to do their homework and engage their brain (unless of course they have recently had a labotomy).
You mean by ripping money out of peoples pockets whilst putting downward pressure on property prices? Yeah none of that would have hurt the economy. FMD.

But what did I expect from the bloke who thought avoiding questions on their climate policy was a good tactic and then bought Bills Big Mac explanation?
 

kirky

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I see someone hasn't thought that slow wages growth might be an impediment to growth. Personal debt at all time highs but hey that won't impact on the economy either.

Obviously, he is getting wage growth unlike all those in the retail and hospitality industry who lost out big time.

Ah well, bring it on so they can own it.
 

Elite Crow

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I see someone hasn't thought that slow wages growth might be an impediment to growth. Personal debt at all time highs but hey that won't impact on the economy either.

Obviously, he is getting wage growth unlike all those in the retail and hospitality industry who lost out big time.

Ah well, bring it on so they can own it.
I see someone thinks by not quoting he’s not actually stooping to the level of engaging. Seriously how old are you? 12?

And here we have it, you’ve reverted back to a comment you made very early on in the piece, you want a recession despite all the suffering that comes with it, just to win an internet argument. Sad individual.
 

Bicks

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What ya's reckon Elite Crow 1970crow

And this can't be blamed on mankind...
Long Invisible, Research Shows Volcanic CO2 Levels Are Staggering (Op-Ed)
In 1992, it was thought that volcanic degassing released something like 100 million tons of CO2 each year. Around the turn of the millennium, this figure was getting closer to 200. The most recent estimate, released this February, comes from a team led by Mike Burton, of the Italian National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology – and it’s just shy of 600 million tons. It caps a staggering trend: A six-fold increase in just two decades.


These inflating figures, I hasten to add, don't mean that our planet is suddenly venting more CO2.


Humanity certainly is; but any changes to the volcanic background level would occur over generations, not years. The rise we’re seeing now, therefore, must have been there all along: As scientific progress is widening our perspective, the daunting outline of how little we really know about volcanoes is beginning to loom large.
 

Mr_Moogle

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There's only ever lots of comments on here when people are slinging s**t at one another, its almost like that's what people are on here for, as opposed to offering up and learning about stuff that will affect the future of Australia. Hmmm :think:
We both know this country has no future. Prove me wrong kids, prove me wrong.

Labors handbrake bad, Liberals handbrake good. Now I've heard it all.

Impending means it hasn't happened yet. So why is the economy going bad already, just getting into character?

Australia's trade conditions are as good as they've been in a decade, so that's definitely not the issue is it?

Don't give me that dribble about what you are lambasting. Stop hiding behind a moral high ground position you think we cant all see through. You've just found a nice little "think of the children" position and framed it so that you can use it to protect the party you support even though the country is falling down all around us.

You know what losers do? They don't admit they have problems. Stop cheerleading naively for a flawed ideology and just admit its problems, that's the first step to not being a loser, after you admit that then we'll see what else we can improve.
Damn. Well said.

I'm glad I'm not the only one getting tired of Elite Crow's faux outrage.
 
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1970crow

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If it's easy to not be in recession when you're running up massive deficits and sending the country into debt, and the Liberals have doubled the debt, why is everyone so scared about a recession?

I thought you said it was easy?
Yeh, exactly my point. Government debt has been propping up the economy. That’s about to stop. The argument about how our total debt got so high is a separate discussion. But it appears as though the coalition aren’t keen for it to continue on that path and the economy is suffering. Try and stay on topic, it’s easier.
 
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