Political Discussion part #2 - SA General Election 2018 and onwards!

brucetiki

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Not often I agree with left wing Unions but I'd support this, too often both Labor and Liberal are guilty of "parachuting" in preferred candidates over local branch candidates. i.e. like the Libs are currently proposing in the upcoming by-election for the seat of Mayo with the Melbourne based Georgina Downer.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...s/news-story/913584ac4972cda7881828366437d65e
Should be the case for all parties. Want to represent your electorate. Live in the area.
 

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dogs105

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1970crow

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I take it you're a rusted on Coalition voter?

Shorten clearly has massive egg all over his face. That "rolled gold" comment is going to haunt him for a long time. However, he had good reason to believe that what he was saying was the truth, based on the legal advice that the ALP had obtained. That's not "a crock of shit".
Nope, just stating a plain fact. Quoting, "legal advice" is just rubbish.
 

Vader

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Nope, just stating a plain fact. Quoting, "legal advice" is just rubbish.
It's not rubbish if they actually sought the advice and built a procedure around it. Shorten honestly thought that the ALP's process was bulletproof, based on the legal advice that he had received. He was wrong. That doesn't make him dishonest, he wasn't misleading, and he wasn't being desceptive. It just means that the legal advice he received on the matter was incorrect.
 

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Bicks

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FantasticShirt

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And in 2018 SA no matter how much the proponents of the Renewables Industry trumpet the "big battery" the plain simple fact is SA still has the dearest energy in Australia.
These are the official AEMO [Australian Energy Market Operator] figures, not a site sponsored by the Renewable Energy Industry.


Build more batteries.
 
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And in 2018 SA no matter how much the proponents of the Renewables Industry trumpet the "big battery" the plain simple fact is SA still has the dearest energy in Australia.
These are the official AEMO [Australian Energy Market Operator] figures, not a site sponsored by the Renewable Energy Industry.


Thank you Scott Pruitt.

Wouldn't have anything to do with much less competition in a much smaller market now either I suppose?
 

Bicks

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Thank you Scott Pruitt.

Wouldn't have anything to do with much less competition in a much smaller market now either I suppose?
I'll refer you to 2015 when the Port Augusta Power Station was operational....Was it a smaller market then too?

Coal much cheaper than gas which is now the MAIN base load option when the wind isn't blowing and the sun's not shining which is a regular occurrence in SA especially in the summer period of peak supply needs.
 

deaneus

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I'll refer you to 2015 when the Port Augusta Power Station was operational....Was it a smaller market then too?

Coal much cheaper than gas which is now the MAIN base load option when the wind isn't blowing and the sun's not shining which is a regular occurrence in SA especially in the summer period of peak supply needs.
I'm sure you have figures at the ready to prove anything you believe.
 

Bicks

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I'm sure you have figures at the ready to prove anything you believe.
As opposed to you who have no hard evidence to disprove it.
You blokes need a reality check.....go to the Renewable Energy Industry's own sponsored site RenewEconomy and look at the colour graph any time you like it's pretty stark viewing, always plenty of the Fossil fuel's - Black [black coal], Brown [brown coal], Red [Gas].....and far, far less of the Renewables Wind [green], Orange [small solar], Blue [hydro] Amber [large solar]....and I might add the only state I've seen Purple [diesel] is SA. I might add at this very moment the "big battery" is drawing supply not producing it.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/
 
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As opposed to you who have no hard evidence to disprove it.
You blokes need a reality check.....go to the Renewable Energy Industry's own sponsored site RenewEconomy and look at the colour graph any time you like it's pretty stark viewing, always plenty of the Fossil fuel's - Black [black coal], Brown [brown coal], Red [Gas].....and far, far less of the Renewables Wind [green], Orange [small solar], Blue [hydro] Amber [large solar]....and I might add the only state I've seen Purple [diesel] is SA. I might add at this very moment the "big battery" is drawing supply not producing it.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/
You'll go colour blind looking at so many colour graphs.

Still believe lack of competition in both the supply and commercial market here are the main reasons for the price hike.

By the way, with so little time on your hands looking at graphs, youtube, political papers, don't know where you get the time to come on here.
 

FantasticShirt

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It’s a much simpler argument to have if you don’t believe the climate change science and don’t think there’s any benefit in moving away from fossil fuels.

Personally I see huge benefits in pursuing a significant renewable energy target with sensible use of modern technology to stabilize the grid. I see not only benefits for contributing to slowing climate change but also longer term economic benefits. Unfortunately governments of all persuasions left this shit for so long that they literally waited til the power shut off before they started getting serious about it.

Rudd screwed the pooch. Weatherill & Rann waited too long as did Vic and NSW with their strategies for aging coal. Abbott isn’t even worth mentioning in this topic and Trumbull was/is as bad as Rudd.

I quite like Marshall’s plan for an extra interconnecter. It ties us in with more baseload power on eastern seaboard and links them in to our renewables. It’s another step toward a truly national approach to an energy market which builds uses a big mix of different energy technology as a way of reducing emissions but also giving us long term, stable and cheap power.

Now if we could just get that nuclear conversation going again.....
 

Bicks

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It’s a much simpler argument to have if you don’t believe the climate change science and don’t think there’s any benefit in moving away from fossil fuels.

Personally I see huge benefits in pursuing a significant renewable energy target with sensible use of modern technology to stabilize the grid. I see not only benefits for contributing to slowing climate change but also longer term economic benefits. Unfortunately governments of all persuasions left this shit for so long that they literally waited til the power shut off before they started getting serious about it.

Rudd screwed the pooch. Weatherill & Rann waited too long as did Vic and NSW with their strategies for aging coal. Abbott isn’t even worth mentioning in this topic and Trumbull was/is as bad as Rudd.

I quite like Marshall’s plan for an extra interconnecter. It ties us in with more baseload power on eastern seaboard and links them in to our renewables. It’s another step toward a truly national approach to an energy market which builds uses a big mix of different energy technology as a way of reducing emissions but also giving us long term, stable and cheap power.

Now if we could just get that nuclear conversation going again.....
Nobody I know is against introducing more renewables into the grid, what I have a problem with is the rate some seem hell bent on it's implementation clearly before the infrastructure and technology is available to guarantee reliability and at a price the average consumer can afford not to mention allowing Australian businesses to remain competitive on the World stage . And I'm with you on nuclear given Australia's massive uranium resources at our own doorstep.
 

Carmo

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I did and there is no Carmo
Yer, I'd have to PM you my name, or give a link to it. On reflection though, I doubt you'd take anything away from it. All it will say is a heap of mining jobs. To the average person mining isn't exactly synonymous with data, but mining, or more accurately, the processing /refining and manufacturing side was big data before big data was a thing.

I guess I'll have to show off my data prowess in here.
 

Carmo

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Lets do a bit of data analysis on Bicks favourite data. I had a quick look and eyeball suggested that although Bicks always goes on about high power prices in SA, and despite me knowing that that is far from renewables fault, higher prices in SA relative to the other states were present previously. So I calculated it out. Renewables started to grow in about 2006, so I averaged the years prior. It confirms that SA still had high prices back in the past. I looked at the differential as a percentage of the South Australian price, then averaged those to compare SA to other comparable states - QLD, NSW and VIC. The SA price pre renewables was more than 20% higher in SA than in the other states.

Then, to compare, I looked at when the SA prices really kicked up and averaged post that period. The SA price kicked up a lot after 2013. So I averaged the period from 2013 to 2018 and did the same for the other states. Again I converted the difference into a percentage of the SA price. I then averaged those averages for the relevant states. What do you know, the price difference for SA has actually decreased under renewables. PS I also did the average from 2006 to 2018... it doesnt change the results much.

The thing you have to look out for is that although the absolute differences are much larger now, and were much smaller previously, this can be tricky when you compare on an apples with apples basis via percentages.

AEMO data.jpg
 

Bicks

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Lets do a bit of data analysis on Bicks favourite data. I had a quick look and eyeball suggested that although Bicks always goes on about high power prices in SA, and despite me knowing that that is far from renewables fault, higher prices in SA relative to the other states were present previously. So I calculated it out. Renewables started to grow in about 2006, so I averaged the years prior. It confirms that SA still had high prices back in the past. I looked at the differential as a percentage of the South Australian price, then averaged those to compare SA to other comparable states - QLD, NSW and VIC. The SA price pre renewables was more than 20% higher in SA than in the other states.

Then, to compare, I looked at when the SA prices really kicked up and averaged post that period. The SA price kicked up a lot after 2013. So I averaged the period from 2013 to 2018 and did the same for the other states. Again I converted the difference into a percentage of the SA price. I then averaged those averages for the relevant states. What do you know, the price difference for SA has actually decreased under renewables. PS I also did the average from 2006 to 2018... it doesnt change the results much.

The thing you have to look out for is that although the absolute differences are much larger now, and were much smaller previously, this can be tricky when you compare on an apples with apples basis via percentages.

View attachment 496203
Go show your graphs to the SA consumers that are paying the highest price in Australia per MW/H which an indisputable fact......I'll give you a tip they'll wipe their ass on it.
 

Carmo

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Go show your graphs to the SA consumers that are paying the highest price in Australia per MW/H which an indisputable fact......I'll give you a tip they'll wipe their ass on it.
LOL! Hissy fit much! Didn't like having your data shoved back in your face mate?
 
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