Political Discussion

[Vader]

One SA Lib. policy that has been overlooked and would be devastating for small business, is the deregulation of shopping hours. If this went ahead, being pushed by the likes of Woolies and Coles, then the small grocer (even the IGA's and Woodland), butcher, baker could be forced out of business.

There has been a fair bit of discussion on local radio and of course all small businesses saying they would be destroyed.

Adelaide is too small to try and be like the bigger cities of the world. Even Poland has decided to close all large shops on a Sunday. The UK's biggest supermarket chain is also not open on Sundays, the same in Germany regarding large shopping centres or cities.

That's a bit Chicken Little.

Canberra is about 1/4 the size of Adelaide, and has had far more liberal shopping hours. Visiting Adelaide is like stepping into a time machine and emerging 40 years earlier.

Coles & Woolies here are open from 6am-midnight, and it used to be 24/7. K-Mart is open 24/7, 364 days of the year, though I can't imagine them having many customers at 3am.

The IGAs have the same opening hours as Coles & Woolies. We still have the grocers, bakers, butchers etc. The sky hasn't fallen.

 

[Elite Crow]

That's a bit Chicken Little.

Canberra is about 1/4 the size of Adelaide, and has had far more liberal shopping hours. Visiting Adelaide is like stepping into a time machine and emerging 40 years earlier.

Coles & Woolies here are open from 6am-midnight, and it used to be 24/7. K-Mart is open 24/7, 364 days of the year, though I can't imagine them having many customers at 3am.

The IGAs have the same opening hours as Coles & Woolies. We still have the grocers, bakers, butchers etc. The sky hasn't fallen.

Could this be your best ever post?

 

[Markthirtytwo2]

That's a bit Chicken Little.

Canberra is about 1/4 the size of Adelaide, and has had far more liberal shopping hours. Visiting Adelaide is like stepping into a time machine and emerging 40 years earlier.

Coles & Woolies here are open from 6am-midnight, and it used to be 24/7. K-Mart is open 24/7, 364 days of the year, though I can't imagine them having many customers at 3am.

The IGAs have the same opening hours as Coles & Woolies. We still have the grocers, bakers, butchers etc. The sky hasn't fallen.

As I said, not according to the small businesses and they would know more than
me or even perhaps yourself.

Also I bet if you did some research, the amount of lost small businesses since deregulation there, may shock you.

 

[brucetiki]

Both sides telling porkys

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-14/sa-election-aec-upholds-complaint/9546522?pfmredir=sm

 

[Cap]

Both sides telling porkys

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-14/sa-election-aec-upholds-complaint/9546522?pfmredir=sm

Getting dirty 3 days out

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Has Bignall really put up signs in his area that are mostly blue? That's dodgy as *.

 

[PrideOf]

Has Bignall really put up signs in his area that are mostly blue? That's dodgy as ****.

Wouldn't put it past him. I lived in his electorate and we used to know an election was only weeks away because we'd suddenly see his face in our local area. Invisible the rest of the time.

 

[jo172]

As I said, not according to the small businesses and they would know more than
me or even perhaps yourself.

Also I bet if you did some research, the amount of lost small businesses since deregulation there, may shock you.

"Not according to small businesses"

Hardly people without a vested interest.

 

[jo172]

Has Bignall really put up signs in his area that are mostly blue? That's dodgy as ****.

Yep, something along the lines of "put your mawson flat first".

Bloke would have done well in the smoke filled backrooms of the playmander era.

 

[Bicks]

If they’d just said it was for SMSFs then it would have been more palatable as it is normally those better off who have SMSFs.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...s/news-story/913244e374618c4e74dd2883944e70b4

Bill Shorten’s tax grab to affect the lowest incomes

More than 610,000 Australians on the lowest annual incomes stand to lose an average of $1200 a year in tax refunds under Bill Shorten’s proposal to abolish cash rebates for tax credits on shares held by retirees, investors and ordinary taxpayers. The Australian can reveal that Treasury analysis of official tax data figures shows the largest group of people to be hit by Labor’s $59 billion tax grab will be those receiving annual incomes of less than $18,200, the majority of whom receive the Age Pension.
The government responded by accusing Labor of stealing from pensioners and retirees in what it declared was a “brutal and cruel” tax grab aimed at funding the Opposition Leader’s “reckless spending” agenda. In a further blow to Labor’s claims that the scrapping of the refund scheme would hit only the wealthy, the Treasury analysis reveals that only 5000 individuals on incomes of more than $180,000 a year will lose the cash refunds for excess tax credits.
Former treasurer Peter Costello, the architect of the refund system in 2001, attacked the plan, claiming it would hit low-income earners and risk upending two decades of bipartisan tax policy. “This will affect millions of retirees, age pensioners and part pensioners — this is a tax rise for them,” Mr Costello said. GRAPHIC: What Labor’s tax proposal means
The total hit to people on salaries under $87,000 is estimated to be $2.2bn, or about 86 per cent of the total paid out to individuals eligible for a cash refund from the ATO when claiming imputation credits that exceed their annual tax liabilities. The loss of income averaged over the total pool paid to about one million individuals was estimated to range from an average of $1200 a year up to $5000.
The total number of people estimated to be affected could be as high as 1.5 million, with about 550,000 members of self-managed super funds also at risk of losing a median income stream of up to $5000 a year.

 

[Markthirtytwo2]

"Not according to small businesses"

Hardly people without a vested interest.

Well if it means keeping your head above water as it is or going down the gurgler, then I guess your right.

I purchase my meat at a butcher shop, get my bread at a baker and so on.

Without knowing the statistics Australia wide, I bet that small business employ more than 50% of the employed. So state wide it would be the same.

 

[Bicks]

Billy Shorten at it again, says he has doubts about the Adani Carmichael Mine going ahead but when asked why refuses to give reasons.

Bill Shorten silent on doubts over Adani’s Carmichael mine

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...e/news-story/85066e8a8e8f54a3f400b07269b6f2e3

Federal Labor leader Bill Shorten has been unable to say why he is sceptical that Adani’s $16.5bn Carmichael coal mine stacks up environmentally, after his state Labor colleagues said it has jumped every environmental hurdle. The Opposition leader is back in Queensland for the first time since he stated that he does not support the Indian conglomerate’s $16.5bn Carmichael coal proposal, in the central Queensland basin. Mr Shorten has repeatedly said that he is sceptical about whether the project would stack up financially and environmentally.
But asked today to say on what specific basis the project did not stack up environmentally — given it has all the necessary state and federal environmental approvals — Mr Shorten did not answer.
“I’ve said my piece on Adani, and I think I’ve made my position very clear,” he said.
Queensland Mines Minister Anthony Lynham recently said Adani’s project was the most heavily environmentally restricted resources project in Queensland, and had secured all state and federal environmental approvals. Both Dr Lynham and Labor premier Annastacia Palaszczuk say the Queensland Labor government supports the Adani project. “All I can say is there are over 230 conditions, I have never seen a resources project so heavily conditioned than this resources project,” Dr Lynham said late last month. “It’s been through so many environmental hurdles to get there.” Today, Dr Lynham said: “Adani has had the green light since June last year, and we support it and want it to go ahead. “The Queensland government says time and time again, let’s go.”

 

[jo172]

Well if it means keeping your head above water as it is or going down the gurgler, then I guess your right.

I purchase my meat at a butcher shop, get my bread at a baker and so on.

Without knowing the statistics Australia wide, I bet that small business employ more than 50% of the employed. So state wide it would be the same.

If it really held water there would be some independent studies supporting it.

It's been on the Agenda long enough for many of these to be produced. Hell, the SDA would be crawling all over it.

With respect to your final point, a number you've entirely made up, being about the same statewide isn't overly compelling.

 

[Bicks]

Robin Hood only robbed from the rich

 

[Markthirtytwo2]

If it really held water there would be some independent studies supporting it.

It's been on the Agenda long enough for many of these to be produced. Hell, the SDA would be crawling all over it.

With respect to your final point, a number you've entirely made up, being about the same statewide isn't overly compelling.

Yep your right, shouldn't guess I guess. My opening sentence still stands.

 

[Vader]

Methinks the problem is nowhere near as bad as they make it out to be. Here's what a quick Google search shows me in for the Belconnen area:

Butchers
There's one butcher in Westfield (directly outside Woolworths), and a chicken shop (selling fresh chicken) just 50m away. There are 4 butchers and another chicken shop in the Fresh Food Markets, with a further 6 butchers in the various suburban shopping centres within the Belconnen area.

Bakers
There are 2 bakeries in the Fresh Food markets, and another 9 in the various shopping centres around the Belconnen area. That figure doesn't include the franchise bakeries (e.g. Bakers Delight, Cheesecake Shop, Bread Top, Dobinsons).

Grocers
There's one greengrocer in Westfield, in the same area as Coles & Woolies. There are 4 more in the Fresh Food Markets, and another in the Jamison shops. There are probably others in the suburban shopping centres as well, I just didn't do the right Google search.

I'd say they're doing just fine, despite Canberra's (relatively) deregulated shopping hours.

What you don't find are many corner stores, what used to be referred to as "milk bars". That said, Canberra never had any of these to begin with, due to the way the suburbs are designed. Most of the suburban shopping centres have an IGA, rather than a privately owned convenience store.

** This is just the Belconnen area. I haven't looked at any of the other areas, such as Gungahlin, North Canberra, South Canberra, Woden, Weston Creek, Tuggeranong, or Molonglo.

 

[Cap]

Yep your right, shouldn't guess I guess. My opening sentence still stands.

I don't think it will be like that though.

I find it hugely insulting that because of deregulated shopping I am all of a sudden going to not buy from SA businesses. in the end it will likely just mean supoer markets don't have to shut at 5 on a Saturday and Sunday night.

personally I'd hope that small businesses are actually able to benefit by opening when they want to take advantage of different events and situations in their locality over and above what the big guys would be looking at. (for instance rundle street shops staying open during fringe festival later)

 

[Markthirtytwo2]

Methinks the problem is nowhere near as bad as they make it out to be. Here's what a quick Google search shows me in for the Belconnen area:

Butchers
There's one butcher in Westfield (directly outside Woolworths), and a chicken shop (selling fresh chicken) just 50m away. There are 4 butchers and another chicken shop in the Fresh Food Markets, with a further 6 butchers in the various suburban shopping centres within the Belconnen area.

Bakers
There are 2 bakeries in the Fresh Food markets, and another 9 in the various shopping centres around the Belconnen area. That figure doesn't include the franchise bakeries (e.g. Bakers Delight, Cheesecake Shop, Bread Top, Dobinsons).

Grocers
There's one greengrocer in Westfield, in the same area as Coles & Woolies. There are 4 more in the Fresh Food Markets, and another in the Jamison shops. There are probably others in the suburban shopping centres as well, I just didn't do the right Google search.

I'd say they're doing just fine, despite Canberra's (relatively) deregulated shopping hours.

What you don't find are many corner stores, what used to be referred to as "milk bars". That said, Canberra never had any of these to begin with, due to the way the suburbs are designed. Most of the suburban shopping centres have an IGA, rather than a privately owned convenience store.

** This is just the Belconnen area. I haven't looked at any of the other areas, such as Gungahlin, North Canberra, South Canberra, Woden, Weston Creek, Tuggeranong, or Molonglo.

Well done. Perhaps it's an Adelaide thing then and they're afraid of change. Just a quick one, how long has these times been in the Capital?

 

[Vader]

Well done. Perhaps it's an Adelaide thing then and they're afraid of change. Just a quick one, how long has these times been in the Capital?

I don't know if or when Canberra ever had fully regulated shopping hours.

Canberra has a different setup to Adelaide. Darwin is probably the only city with a similar plan. Apologies if this gets confusing... Canberra has a number of geographically distinct townships, with a town centre (light industrial suburb) hosting a major shopping centre (i.e. a Westfield mall). Each town centre is surrounded by a number of residential suburbs, each of which have their own local shopping centre. So.. township = big mall, residential suburb = local shops. As an example, "Belconnen" can refer to the town centre itself, or the wider area including about 15-20 suburbs.

I first moved here in 1995, at which time Coles & Woolies were both open 24/7. I don't know when these hours were introduced - it was before my time.

Sometime in 95 or 96, Kate Carnell, in her stupidity, decided to make them close at 6pm. From memory, this was due to bleating from the small businesses in the local shops.

The regulations she introduced (like so many other things she did) were utterly ridiculous. The early closing hours only affected the supermarkets in the town centres. Supermarkets in the local shopping centres were still free to open whenever they pleased. This led to the absurd situation where the Coles & Woolies in the Belconnen town centre were forced to close early, while the Coles in Jamison (2km away) was open 24/7.

The polling on this must have been absolutely awful, and the Libs would have been completely wiped out if she'd gone to an election with this policy in place. Fortunately for her, the stupidity only lasted a few months, before it was overturned - resulting in the situation we have now. Supermarkets (Coles, Woolies, IGA, Aldi) are now open from 6am to midnight, 7 days per week, with modified shopping hours on some public holidays (ANZAC, Christmas, Easter). It's a sensible compromise - people can still get their shopping done after works, and nobody really needs to shop between midnight & 6am.

The sky didn't fall. Despite the protestations of the small businesses at the time, they're still alive (or their successors are).

 

[jo172]

Yep your right, shouldn't guess I guess. My opening sentence still stands.

It doesn't.

My views as to listening to people trying to protect their own monopoly rather than an independent study hold more weight.

Turkeys voting for christmas and all that

 

[jo172]

Also, let's not pretend this is about small business given it's clearly an SDA initiative (and more to protect their status as convenors of the right faction of the ALP than any genuine interest in a majority of their workers).

Back when I was stacking shelves at Kmart I would have killed for my casual rates with public holiday loading.

 

[PrideOf]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...s/news-story/913244e374618c4e74dd2883944e70b4

Bill Shorten’s tax grab to affect the lowest incomes

Well, it is easier than cutting corporate tax fraud, where if you managed to force Google's hand you'd end up with $2billion from one company.

 

[PrideOf]

Billy Shorten at it again, says he has doubts about the Adani Carmichael Mine going ahead but when asked why refuses to give reasons.

Bill Shorten silent on doubts over Adani’s Carmichael mine

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...e/news-story/85066e8a8e8f54a3f400b07269b6f2e3

There's a touch of the Steven Marshall magic about Bill.

Complains that everything's s**t and the Govt are pathethic, but doesn't seem to be a good alternative, or have any other real options that would be better.

Or maybe I just can't shake when Shaun Micallef labelled Bill's Dad-joke lame one-liners as "Zingers".

 

[Vikingblood]

I've been blessed with my local candidates in previous elections. Last time around I voted for Nat Cook (Labor) because she is an excellent local representative with strong investment in the community. Don't have her anymore as they moved the electoral boundaries. Prior to that I had Bob Such (Independent, previous Liberal and Speaker) another great man who was totally invested in the community. This time around I have these fabulous choices:

1 PHOTAKIS, John -The Greens. Wasn't going to vote Green regardless so who cares.
2 GOLDING, Dan-Independent. Independent in that he keeps his views completely to himself and has invested in two A5 size posters for the whole electorate
3 HOCKLEY, Karen- SA Best. No idea what policies and values she or the party have, so she's off the list.
4 MURRAY, Steve -Liberal Party. Met him once, seems like an OK bloke, but he's riding on the fact there's no one to challenge him, so playing the small target game.
5 THORSTEINSEN, Jonette-Australian Labor Party. Clearly running a token candidate as I think I've seen one Facebook post and two posters with her name.

I wouldn't even know where to begin here. I've gone from Gold to Shite in one election cycle. I don't vote by party, never had and never will, but there's not one thing I can really latch onto this time.

 

[brucetiki]

I've been blessed with my local candidates in previous elections. Last time around I voted for Nat Cook (Labor) because she is an excellent local representative with strong investment in the community. Don't have her anymore as they moved the electoral boundaries. Prior to that I had Bob Such (Independent, previous Liberal and Speaker) another great man who was totally invested in the community. This time around I have these fabulous choices:

1 PHOTAKIS, John -The Greens. Wasn't going to vote Green regardless so who cares.
2 GOLDING, Dan-Independent. Independent in that he keeps his views completely to himself and has invested in two A5 size posters for the whole electorate
3 HOCKLEY, Karen- SA Best. No idea what policies and values she or the party have, so she's off the list.
4 MURRAY, Steve -Liberal Party. Met him once, seems like an OK bloke, but he's riding on the fact there's no one to challenge him, so playing the small target game.
5 THORSTEINSEN, Jonette-Australian Labor Party. Clearly running a token candidate as I think I've seen one Facebook post and two posters with her name.

I wouldn't even know where to begin here. I've gone from Gold to Shite in one election cycle. I don't vote by party, never had and never will, but there's not one thing I can really latch onto this time.

Looks like you need Chook Lotto to pick your candidate