Play Nice Politics # 4 - The madness continues here.....

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Abusing and/or trolling other posters in this thread will not be tolerated from this point on.

Debate away and continue to have strong opinions, but abusing posters ie calling them idiots/stupid etc or trolling posters by laugh liking their posts will not be tolerated going forward.


 
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Crow till I die

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3/4 of the column was blank, with only 13 of 50 states having reported yesterday. Looks like most of the states weren't reporting testing numbers over the weekend.

Anyone who reads too much into data which is so obviously complete is either an idiot, driving an agenda, or both.
wow..looks like you didn't like that data

lots of blue states cases rising numbers in this live data report..but hey you'd have to be an idiot if you followed the data right Vader

 

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3/4 of the column was blank, with only 13 of 50 states having reported yesterday. Looks like most of the states weren't reporting testing numbers over the weekend.

Anyone who reads too much into data which is so obviously complete is either an idiot, driving an agenda, or both.
On that site the "new cases" is only there to display when data has updated, you can however click and go and view each state though.

So I only went to the top 4 states on the list

daily numbers from 8/7
California - 2045
Texas - 2136
Florida - 5790
New York - 860

Also I am pretty sure that article specifically related to the rise of the number of cases involving the delta variant too and not just COVID numbers in general.
 

Kane McGoodwin

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NSW summary from the ABC. With the significant cases now in ICU, unfortunately there are likely to be deaths from this & they could be someone under 55 years of age....

They really need the daily numbers of those not in isolation to come down quickly.


Of the locally acquired cases, 64 are linked to a known case or cluster and 41 are household contacts, with 23 considered close contacts.

The source of infection is still being investigated for 48 cases.

The areas of most concern continue to be in the Fairfield, Liverpool and Canterbury-Bankstown local government areas.

Three of the new cases are linked to Imedic Medical Centre in Fairfield.

There are 63 COVID patients in hospital, with 18 in intensive care and four on ventilators.

Twenty-five people in hospital are under the age of 55 and 14 are under 35.

Of the latest cases, eight were from five separate apartments in a 29-unit block in the eastern suburbs.
 

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Vader

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wow..looks like you didn't like that data

lots of blue states cases rising numbers in this live data report..but hey you'd have to be an idiot if you followed the data right Vader

Congratulations on another massive own goal.

If you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see the 14-day averages. I've just done the maths (simple Excel spreadsheet). Red states have seen their numbers increase, on average by 78.3% over the last fortnight. Blue states have seen their numbers increase, on average, by only 22.6%.

That's right... COVID numbers are currently increasing 3x faster in Red states than they are in Blue states.

Massachusetts (85%) and California (82%) are the only Blue states with increases larger than the Red average. There are 11 Red states with 100+% increases, headed by Tennessee (230%) and Iowa (200%).

To be fair, some of the Red states are doing very well - Ohio, Idaho, West Virginia & South Dakota have all seen a decrease in numbers (as have 5x Blue states).

It really doesn't pay to cherry pick stats, when anyone with an ounce of intelligence can look at the bigger picture and see straight through your weak argument.

StateRed/Blue14-day Trend
TennesseeR
230​
Red States
78.28​
IowaR
200​
Blue States
22.61538​
ArkansasR
196​
AlabamaR
159​
KansasR
152​
LouisianaR
142​
South CarolinaR
138​
AlaskaR
117​
FloridaR
115​
MississippiR
110​
NebraskaR
104​
MassachusettsB
85​
CaliforniaB
82​
MissouriR
80​
GeorgiaB
73​
IllinoisB
69​
IndianaR
60​
OklahomaR
60​
New YorkB
55​
HawaiiB
52​
TexasR
42​
MarylandB
41​
MichiganB
41​
North CarolinaR
38​
KentuckyR
33​
DelawareB
29​
WisconsinB
29​
DCB
24​
UtahR
22​
NevadaB
21​
ArizonaB
20​
VermontB
19​
North DakotaR
19​
WyomingR
13​
ColoradoB
8​
ConnecticutB
8​
VirginiaB
8​
New HampshireB
3​
New JerseyB
2​
MinnesotaB
1​
MontanaR
1​
PennsylvaniaB
-3​
OhioR
-3​
IdahoR
-4​
New MexicoB
-9​
OregonB
-12​
WashingtonB
-18​
MaineB
-20​
Rhode IslandB
-20​
West VirginiaR
-25​
South DakotaR
-42​
 
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Vader

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On that site the "new cases" is only there to display when data has updated, you can however click and go and view each state though.

So I only went to the top 4 states on the list

daily numbers from 8/7
California - 2045
Texas - 2136
Florida - 5790
New York - 860
It's no great surprise that those states have the most cases. They're also the most populous states in the USA - California a clear #1, followed by Texas, Florida, and New York.
Also I am pretty sure that article specifically related to the rise of the number of cases involving the delta variant too and not just COVID numbers in general.
True... but it's much harder to find any publicly available numbers, which differentiate between Delta and other variants.
 

Crow till I die

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Congratulations on another massive own goal.

If you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see the 14-day averages. I've just done the maths (simple Excel spreadsheet). Red states have seen their numbers increase, on average by 78.3% over the last fortnight. Blue states have seen their numbers increase, on average, by only 22.6%.

That's right... COVID numbers are currently increasing 3x faster in Red states than they are in Blue states.

Massachusetts (85) and California (82%) are the only Blue states where with increases larger than the Red average. There are 11 Red states with 100+% increases, headed by Tennessee (230%) and Iowa (200%).

To be fair, some of the Red states are doing very well - Ohio, Idaho, West Virginia & South Dakota have all seen a decrease in numbers (as have 5x Blue states).

It really doesn't pay to cherry pick stats, when anyone with an ounce of intelligence can look at the bigger picture and see straight through your weak argument.
so you agree then that it is not just red states that have case numbers increasing..I am glad you agree that the premise of Kirky's post was garbage as the facts are that blue states also have increasing numbers..by your own math

And whilst on vaccinations - way to go GOP - a novel way to reduce your base
 

Vader

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so you agree then that it is not just red states that have case numbers increasing..I am glad you agree that the premise of Kirky's post was garbage as the facts are that blue states also have increasing numbers..by your own math

And whilst on vaccinations - way to go GOP - a novel way to reduce your base
Both Red & Blue states are growing... but the situation is much, much, much worse in Red states.

Case numbers in Red states are growing 3x faster than they are in Blue states. It follows, logically, that death rates will be 3x higher in Red states (in the near future). Yes, Blue states will lose some voters, but the GOP will lose a lot more in their Red state heartland. Comparatively, the GOP will be far worse off.

Your attempts at spin & deflection are truly astounding.
 

Crow till I die

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Both Red & Blue states are growing... but the situation is much, much, much worse in Red states.

Case numbers in Red states are growing 3x faster than they are in Blue states. It follows, logically, that death rates will be 3x higher in Red states (in the near future). Yes, Blue states will lose some voters, but the GOP will lose a lot more in their Red state heartland. Comparatively, the GOP will be far worse off.

Your attempts at spin & deflection are truly astounding.
that is a very long winded way of saying I was right..why not cut out 90% of the crap and just say it
 

Vader

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that is a very long winded way of saying I was right..why not cut out 90% of the crap and just say it
You're spinning like a top.

Things are currently, on average, 3x worse in Red states than they are in Blue states. Those are the simple facts.

The reason for this is very simple. Democrat voters are more inclined to be vaccinated. Republican voters are less inclined to be vaccinated, and continue to be vulnerable to COVID as a result.
 

Crow till I die

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You're spinning like a top.

Things are currently, on average, 3x worse in Red states than they are in Blue states. Those are the simple facts.
You have avoided the premise of mys posts. So the coronavirus cases in the blue states are irrelevant and it only the GOP base that is being reduced? is that what you are saying because that is what Kirky said and the live figures debunk that. Lets see what the figures look like in a couple of weeks as those live sites show large dips and troughs in Covid numbers across all states and red states rise and blue states fall, then maybe there some basis

Edit..but how about the daily death numbers. taken 2 days ago with all states reporting, there were 118 deaths with 14500 new cases across the land. If you average that, it is just over 2 deaths per day per state. Are these numbers really representative of a new killer wave of the virus tearing through a land


#Country,
Other
Total
Cases
New
Cases
Total
Deaths
New
Deaths
Total
Recovered
New
Recovered
Active
Cases
Serious,
Critical
Tot Cases/
1M pop
Deaths/
1M pop
Total
Tests
Tests/
1M pop
Population
World187,247,093+426,1764,042,595+7,515171,226,303+348,60411,978,19578,31624,022518.6
1USA34,726,111+14,535622,818+11829,234,930+11,9584,868,3634,340104,2851,870511,670,6651,536,583
332,992,570
 
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Vader

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You have avoided the premise of mys posts. So the coronavirus cases in the blue states are irrelevant and it only the GOP base that is being reduced? is that what you are saying because that is what Kirky said and the live figures debunk that. Lets see what the figures look like in a couple of weeks as those live sites show large dips and troughs in Covid numbers across all states and red states rise and blue states fall, then maybe there some basis
I'm ignoring you, because you're just attempting to deflect attention away from the actual point being made.

The facts are that:
  • COVID numbers are increasing in 41 of 51 US jurisdictions (50 states + Washington DC).
  • The 11 states with the highest rate of increase are all Red states, all of which have seen case numbers double (or triple) in the last 2 weeks.
  • COVID numbers are rising, on average, 3x faster in Red states than they are in Blue states.
  • Voters in Red states are being impacted disproportionately, resulting in more GOP voter deaths than DEM voter deaths, and an erosion of the GOP base.
By all means wait another 2 weeks to see what the numbers look like. You're right about there being significant day-to-day fluctuations, which is the 14-day average is a much more usable figure. However, given the underlying reason behind the increases in Red states (relative to Blue states), it's highly unlikely that the figures are going to improve for the worst affected Red states.
 

Crow till I die

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I'm ignoring you, because you're just attempting to deflect attention away from the actual point being made.

The facts are that:
  • COVID numbers are increasing in 41 of 51 US jurisdictions (50 states + Washington DC).
  • The 11 states with the highest rate of increase are all Red states, all of which have seen case numbers double (or triple) in the last 2 weeks.
  • COVID numbers are rising, on average, 3x faster in Red states than they are in Blue states.
  • Voters in Red states are being impacted disproportionately, resulting in more GOP voter deaths than DEM voter deaths, and an erosion of the GOP base.
By all means wait another 2 weeks to see what the numbers look like. You're right about there being significant day-to-day fluctuations, which is the 14-day average is a much more usable figure. However, given the underlying reason behind the increases in Red states (relative to Blue states), it's highly unlikely that the figures are going to improve for the worst affected Red states.
deaths..that crucial statistic. As they always said it was about preventing deaths and it is hard to make the case that there is anything like a killer wave rolling across the land with the new variant

Weekly Trends

Search:
#Country,
Other
Cases in the last 7 daysCases in the preceding 7 daysWeekly Case % ChangeCases in the last 7 days/1M popDeaths in the last 7 daysDeaths in the preceding 7 daysWeekly Death % ChangeDeaths in the last 7 days/1M popPopulation
World3,019,8312,721,332+11%54,34353,644+1%
1Brazil320,132349,210-8%1,4959,07110,931-17%42214,108,050
2India289,035305,909-6%2076,0345,997+1%41,393,901,660
3Indonesia243,119168,780+44%8795,8823,444+71%21276,485,705
4UK218,503170,856+28%3,201203122+66%368,251,655
5Russia172,392159,650+8%1,1815,0774,643+9%35145,998,686
6Colombia161,465191,779-16%3,1393,9304,218-7%7651,438,301
7South Africa132,703133,999-1.0%2,2092,4491,940+26%4160,074,116
8USA120,290105,626+14%3611,4721,688-13%4332,992,570

So in the last week, the total deaths in the USA were 1472. That is an average of 200 per day over the whole country which is an average of 4 deaths per state per day. What is also noticeable is that the total deaths number is lower in the last week than is was for the week before but the case numbers were lower the week before.

Is not the entire point of the vaccination program to weaken the effects of the virus and as such actual case numbers are not the problem, it is the hospitalisations and deaths and if they are low / staying low, then so what if case numbers rise
 

Mr_Moogle

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I'll put on my Damien Barrett hat, but
if

then


you are disagreeing with me for the sake of it with no factual basis for doing so
You are just pulling sh*t out of your ass. Saying that Astra's unpopularity is left wing hysteria when our own health experts and our conservative government are no longer recommending it for under 50's, is an obvious attempt at deflection.
 

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fortunatecrow

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You are just pulling sh*t out of your ass. Saying that Astra's unpopularity is left wing hysteria when our own health experts and our conservative government are no longer recommending it for under 50's, is an obvious attempt at deflection.
I said that the Guardian and ABC followed the pollies

You said that the ABC and Guardian didn't, whilst saying you don't read or listen to them

I pointed out that you are not in a position to factually contradict my point if you haven't read/listened to them.

Your response to that is that is to say I'm deflecting? My pointing out what you said when you responded to me is a deflection ? Wowee !
 

Mr_Moogle

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I said that the Guardian and ABC followed the pollies

You said that the ABC and Guardian didn't, whilst saying you don't read or listen to them

I pointed out that you are not in a position to factually contradict my point if you haven't read/listened to them.

Your response to that is that is to say I'm deflecting? My pointing out what you said when you responded to me is a deflection ? Wowee !
I never said they didn't report on it. I'm not sure I agree it was politicised though given that media of all stripes were all over that story. The reason I'm saying it's a deflection tactic is that negative public opinion wouldn't have even mattered in the first place if the Liberal party had hedged their bets instead of going all in on Astra.
 

1970crow

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Whilst I agree, and the people I know who work there have already been vaccinated, I feel the media is partly to blame by sensationalizing any thing to do with the vaccines and whilst there are some not bright people around there are some who are just scared.

In reality you're more likely to get a blood clot taking 'the pill' than you are having the vaccine.
I've never really gotten the equal risk analogies. People take the pill for the benefit(s) it provides. If you're prepared to wear the risk of catching COVID, then vaccine provides no individual benefit. That said, there are industries that have certain requirements that others don't. Vaccinations and the health/aged industries seems perfectly logical to me.
 

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Whilst I agree, and the people I know who work there have already been vaccinated, I feel the media is partly to blame by sensationalizing any thing to do with the vaccines and whilst there are some not bright people around there are some who are just scared.

In reality you're more likely to get a blood clot taking 'the pill' than you are having the vaccine.
The difference is that blood clots from the pill have a far lower fatality rate than the AZ vaccine.

From memory it's around 2% vs 30%
 

kirky

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Congratulations on another massive own goal.

If you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see the 14-day averages. I've just done the maths (simple Excel spreadsheet). Red states have seen their numbers increase, on average by 78.3% over the last fortnight. Blue states have seen their numbers increase, on average, by only 22.6%.

That's right... COVID numbers are currently increasing 3x faster in Red states than they are in Blue states.

Massachusetts (85%) and California (82%) are the only Blue states with increases larger than the Red average. There are 11 Red states with 100+% increases, headed by Tennessee (230%) and Iowa (200%).

To be fair, some of the Red states are doing very well - Ohio, Idaho, West Virginia & South Dakota have all seen a decrease in numbers (as have 5x Blue states).

It really doesn't pay to cherry pick stats, when anyone with an ounce of intelligence can look at the bigger picture and see straight through your weak argument.

StateRed/Blue14-day Trend
TennesseeR
230​
Red States
78.28​
IowaR
200​
Blue States
22.61538​
ArkansasR
196​
AlabamaR
159​
KansasR
152​
LouisianaR
142​
South CarolinaR
138​
AlaskaR
117​
FloridaR
115​
MississippiR
110​
NebraskaR
104​
MassachusettsB
85​
CaliforniaB
82​
MissouriR
80​
GeorgiaB
73​
IllinoisB
69​
IndianaR
60​
OklahomaR
60​
New YorkB
55​
HawaiiB
52​
TexasR
42​
MarylandB
41​
MichiganB
41​
North CarolinaR
38​
KentuckyR
33​
DelawareB
29​
WisconsinB
29​
DCB
24​
UtahR
22​
NevadaB
21​
ArizonaB
20​
VermontB
19​
North DakotaR
19​
WyomingR
13​
ColoradoB
8​
ConnecticutB
8​
VirginiaB
8​
New HampshireB
3​
New JerseyB
2​
MinnesotaB
1​
MontanaR
1​
PennsylvaniaB
-3​
OhioR
-3​
IdahoR
-4​
New MexicoB
-9​
OregonB
-12​
WashingtonB
-18​
MaineB
-20​
Rhode IslandB
-20​
West VirginiaR
-25​
South DakotaR
-42​
I remember travelling thru Montana, Wyoming and South Dakota back in 2006. Sometimes you would be lucky to see a car on the road for an hour.

Populations added together of Wyoming, North Dakota and South Dakota would barely exceed that of South Australia.
 

Mr_Moogle

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Mitch McConnell is out there telling Republicans to get vaccinated. So are several R governors. There are a few people in the party smart enough realise is killing off their own voter base isn't the smartest move ever. Even Trump himself has told his voters to get vaccinated even though he didn't make a public spectacle out of getting the jab. Despite all this, we still see a growing discrepancy between Dem & Rep voters willing to be vaccinated. I guess you can't fix stupid.
 

kirky

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Mitch McConnell is out there telling Republicans to get vaccinated. So are several R governors. There are a few people in the party smart enough realise is killing off their own voter base isn't the smartest move ever. Even Trump himself has told his voters to get vaccinated even though he didn't make a public spectacle out of getting the jab. Despite all this, we still see a growing discrepancy between Dem & Rep voters willing to be vaccinated. I guess you can't fix stupid.
This details the numbers further down the article. You can’t help the stupid - 47% of Republicans say they won’t get vaccinated as opposed to 6% of Democrats. As I said, you can’t help the stupid. How to kill your own base.

 
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