Play Nice Politics # 4 - The madness continues here.....

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MOD NOTICE

Abusing and/or trolling other posters in this thread will not be tolerated from this point on.

Debate away and continue to have strong opinions, but abusing posters ie calling them idiots/stupid etc or trolling posters by laugh liking their posts will not be tolerated going forward.


 
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fortunatecrow

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That's between could/would and should.

Yes, they expected the Afghan Army to collapse - but not anywhere near as fast as it did. On Saturday they still thought they had 6 weeks before Kabul fell, it fell 2 days later. Pretty much nobody expected that to happen.

They should have evacuated the interpreters, and anyone else who provided services to the Allies, at the same time they were evacuating their own personnel. NONE of the Western Allies chose to do this - so being critical of Biden, when nobody else did anything different, seems rather stupid.
Anyone who disagrees with me is stupid? Usually invoked by other posters on this board, and as always, an admission of a very weak argument.
 

fortunatecrow

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The New York Times via the AFR doesn't miss....nails both administrations:

"Joe Biden’s heedlessness, on the cusp of a sweeping Taliban blitzkrieg that on Sunday saw them enter Kabul, will define his administration’s first great fiasco.
It won’t matter that he is carrying through on the shambolic withdrawal agreement negotiated last year by the Trump administration, with the eager support of Donald Trump’s isolationist base, and through the diplomatic efforts of Trump’s lickspittle secretary of state, Mike Pompeo.

This is happening on Biden’s watch, at Biden’s insistence, against the advice of his senior military advisers and with Biden’s firm assurance to the American people that what has just come to pass wouldn’t come to pass.

Past presidents might have had a senior adviser resign following such a debacle, as Les Aspin, then the secretary of defence, did after the 1993 “Black Hawk Down” episode in Somalia. This time, Biden owns the moment. He also owns the consequences. We should begin to anticipate them now.
 

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Crow till I die

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The New York Times via the AFR doesn't miss....nails both administrations:

"Joe Biden’s heedlessness, on the cusp of a sweeping Taliban blitzkrieg that on Sunday saw them enter Kabul, will define his administration’s first great fiasco.
It won’t matter that he is carrying through on the shambolic withdrawal agreement negotiated last year by the Trump administration, with the eager support of Donald Trump’s isolationist base, and through the diplomatic efforts of Trump’s lickspittle secretary of state, Mike Pompeo.

This is happening on Biden’s watch, at Biden’s insistence, against the advice of his senior military advisers and with Biden’s firm assurance to the American people that what has just come to pass wouldn’t come to pass.

Past presidents might have had a senior adviser resign following such a debacle, as Les Aspin, then the secretary of defence, did after the 1993 “Black Hawk Down” episode in Somalia. This time, Biden owns the moment. He also owns the consequences. We should begin to anticipate them now.
First great fiasco?. They obviously have not been paying attention. He has nuked the US southern border and there essentially now is no border with the tidal wave of illegal aliens pouring in.

How about israel?..he has the middle east to the brink of war and was witholding military aid to israel in tge form of iron dome missiles..the ones used to intercept hamas rockets.

The NYT is a hard left publication so it is amazing it is critisizing biden at all as for tge last 4 years it has run a protection racket for him. He must be so putrid for this rag to be going him
 

fortunatecrow

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The AFR reports cases in Victoria will be up again, between 35 and 40 today. A pretty concerning trajectory, considering that this is the Delta variant, way more contagious than the original that saw us get to 700+ cases/day last year and this time around (on what I see) we have a more complacent public and virtually no enforcement of the lockdown & mask etc rules.

The Age reports that Victoria hit the double ton - 200 days in lockdown. NSW will hit the milestone I reckon but I am not convinced they will overtake us.

The majority of Crows fans are in SA: you don't know how good you have it!
 

Kane McGoodwin

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The AFR reports cases in Victoria will be up again, between 35 and 40 today. A pretty concerning trajectory, considering that this is the Delta variant, way more contagious than the original that saw us get to 700+ cases/day last year and this time around (on what I see) we have a more complacent public and virtually no enforcement of the lockdown & mask etc rules.

The Age reports that Victoria hit the double ton - 200 days in lockdown. NSW will hit the milestone I reckon but I am not convinced they will overtake us.

The majority of Crows fans are in SA: you don't know how good you have it!
Most of us do... but at the same time I feel very sorry for the Eastern States in lockdown.

If your numbers are true, the x2 growth in Victorian covid cases is very concerning to add to daily record numbers in NSW, including on the SA border in Broken Hill.

It's unfortunately only a matter of time that it crosses the SA border, given NSW have failed to curtail it.

It really is a sprint now to get our nation injected.
 

fortunatecrow

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The NYT is a hard left publication so it is amazing it is critisizing biden at all as for the last 4 years it has run a protection racket for him. He must be so putrid for this rag to be going him
Yes, pretty damning.

"First Great Fiasco" made me smile. Do they think we will need to number the great fiascos, to keep track of them???
 

fortunatecrow

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Most of us do...
I don't mean this in an argumentative way but: I think people in SA think they do - but I don't think they really do!

It's unfortunately only a matter of time that it crosses the SA border, given NSW have failed to curtail it.
It's hard to think that it won't jump the border. Administrations that rely on border closures alone and don't use the time wisely might be headed for trouble. WA, with the lowest vaccination rate springs to mind.
 

Kane McGoodwin

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I don't mean this in an argumentative way but: I think people in SA think they do - but I don't think they really do!


It's hard to think that it won't jump the border. Administrations that rely on border closures alone and don't use the time wisely might be headed for trouble. WA, with the lowest vaccination rate springs to mind.
According to Spurrier, SA are tracking to achieve the 80% covax rate by Christmas... when she says lockdowns & border restrictions will end for SA.
 

fortunatecrow

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The AFR reports cases in Victoria will be up again, between 35 and 40 today. A pretty concerning trajectory, considering that this is the Delta variant, way more contagious than the original that saw us get to 700+ cases/day last year and this time around (on what I see) we have a more complacent public and virtually no enforcement of the lockdown & mask etc rules.
57 ! Here we go again...
 

Kane McGoodwin

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Get vaccinated!


Key points:
  • Herd immunity is where a large portion of a population becomes immune to a disease through infection or vaccination
  • Infectious disease experts say herd immunity is not attainable with the Delta variant
  • They say it means the unvaccinated cannot rely on vaccinated people to protect them


In what experts say is already playing out in small numbers in the New South Wales outbreak, unvaccinated people are being disproportionately represented in the intensive care wards across the world as the infectious Delta strain takes hold.

Current numbers from NSW show of the 66 people in ICU, 59 are not vaccinated and seven have had one dose. No one currently in ICU or requiring ventilation has been fully vaccinated.
 

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fortunatecrow

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AFR today: (edit note: apologies for the broken link, now fixed)

The emerging conventional wisdom in Washington is that US President Joe Biden was disastrously wrong in his assessment of Afghanistan – especially since he declared a little more than a month ago that the Afghan national forces would fight, and possibly dominate, the Taliban. Further painting himself into a rhetorical corner, Biden added: “Never has Afghanistan been a united country, not in all of its history.”

Now that the Taliban seem to have more control of the country than they did even in the late 1990s, that latter Biden appraisal is looking very wrong as well. Afghanistan will now be united all right, but in blood. Very likely a reign of terror by the Pashtun-dominated Taliban will ensue as they subjugate Afghanistan’s large and hostile non-Pashtun ethnic population, such as the Tajiks and Hazaras (the second and third largest ethnic groups, respectively)...

...it will take Biden a long time to recover from his huge tactical errors in Afghanistan, some experts say. Even if a Taliban takeover was inevitable, his insistence on a complete withdrawal with few contingency plans put the United States in the worst possible light.

“It was a mistake to announce a major foreign-policy decision without extensive consultation with our NATO allies and the Afghan government,” says Bruce Riedel, an adviser to four US presidents on the Middle East and South Central Asia. “It was also a mistake to begin a precipitous and hasty withdrawal at the beginning of the Afghan fighting season instead of at the end, when winter alone would have helped delay the Taliban.”

Biden and his team no doubt realise this now – and perhaps they’ll learn from it. “I’m not convinced that the Taliban takeover was inevitable,” one former Biden aide said in an email. “But US disengagement, and doing so without leaving any meaningful force behind (that is, without even a residual capability at Bagram Air Base) probably tipped the balance.” Instead of what might have been an alliance between the Afghan national forces and anti-Taliban warlords, the Taliban advance snowballed, and the warlords who might have resisted in the past folded.
 
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Punchy Bassett

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Gladys this morning:

“I appreciate what we are going through it looks difficult, but every state in Australia will need to come to terms with the fact that when you get to a certain level of vaccination and open up, Delta will creep in,” she said. “We can’t pretend that we will have zero cases around Australia with Delta.”

That's nice of her to speak for the rest of us :rolleyes:
 

Coopers

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Does anyone actually ever win a war?

The amount of money that every country wastes on fueling the perpetual war machine is absolutely criminal and an incredibly sad reflection on the human race.
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.
Chance for Peace speech. Eisenhower would be called a RINO thesedays.
 

Coopers

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That's between could/would and should.

Yes, they expected the Afghan Army to collapse - but not anywhere near as fast as it did. On Saturday they still thought they had 6 weeks before Kabul fell, it fell 2 days later. Pretty much nobody expected that to happen.

They should have evacuated the interpreters, and anyone else who provided services to the Allies, at the same time they were evacuating their own personnel. NONE of the Western Allies chose to do this - so being critical of Biden, when nobody else did anything different, seems rather stupid.
You saying that the Western Allies knew they were giving the country back to the Taliban, just hoping it was a bit slower?

That is f’ed.
 

Kane McGoodwin

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Gladys this morning:

“I appreciate what we are going through it looks difficult, but every state in Australia will need to come to terms with the fact that when you get to a certain level of vaccination and open up, Delta will creep in,” she said. “We can’t pretend that we will have zero cases around Australia with Delta.”

That's nice of her to speak for the rest of us :rolleyes:
Nice deflection from losing complete control due to poor decision making.

The idea is to keep covid numbers minimal UNTIL the majority of the majority of the public, particularly the vulnerable are vaccinated to keep the number of deaths ; seriously ill low.
 

BRL121

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Get vaccinated!


Key points:
  • Herd immunity is where a large portion of a population becomes immune to a disease through infection or vaccination
  • Infectious disease experts say herd immunity is not attainable with the Delta variant
  • They say it means the unvaccinated cannot rely on vaccinated people to protect them


In what experts say is already playing out in small numbers in the New South Wales outbreak, unvaccinated people are being disproportionately represented in the intensive care wards across the world as the infectious Delta strain takes hold.

Current numbers from NSW show of the 66 people in ICU, 59 are not vaccinated and seven have had one dose. No one currently in ICU or requiring ventilation has been fully vaccinated.
Yet, we have had the death of a fully vaccinated person.
 

Kane McGoodwin

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Yet, we have had the death of a fully vaccinated person.
It's extremely rare & did they have pre-existing conditions?

The fact remains your chances are massively better of surviving covid if you have been vaccinated. 3% death rate to virtually nothing.

To make you decision on an outlier compared the norm is crazy.
 

kirky

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At least 44 were quarantined... but concerning the number is climbing.
That St Kilda prostitute seems to be the source of its outbreak. Who would have thought accountants and architects going to a hooker?

And based on projections they will hit 1,000 cases per day shortly in NSW and some have them hitting 2,000 cases per day.

Absolute massive failure by Gladys.

And why do we have travel restrictions for people from WA. They haven’t had local transmission for 15 days (just like us).
 
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rocket18

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Get vaccinated!


Key points:
  • Herd immunity is where a large portion of a population becomes immune to a disease through infection or vaccination
  • Infectious disease experts say herd immunity is not attainable with the Delta variant
  • They say it means the unvaccinated cannot rely on vaccinated people to protect them


In what experts say is already playing out in small numbers in the New South Wales outbreak, unvaccinated people are being disproportionately represented in the intensive care wards across the world as the infectious Delta strain takes hold.

Current numbers from NSW show of the 66 people in ICU, 59 are not vaccinated and seven have had one dose. No one currently in ICU or requiring ventilation has been fully vaccinated.
At least that is one good thing about Delta, the anti vaxers will probably get it when things open up as they can't rely on everyone else for herd immunity.
 
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