Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

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poshman

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The last Government that you could say was left of centre in Australia was the Whitlam Government and Fraser, the man who opposed him 50 years ago had to quit the Liberal Party because of its extremist policies.

This country has veered so far to the right its an embarrassment. Just have to look at how the ballot papers in the house of representatives of recent years are stacked with minority parties from right to extreme right, so much so that you have to decided if whether an obvious bunch of repugnant racists like Pauline Hanson's One Nation is going to be the worst of them.
What government around the world would you consider Left of centre?

What key points do you think make a gov left of centre?

I don't mean extreme left just left.
 

Mags98

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What government around the world would you consider Left of centre?

What key points do you think make a gov left of centre?

I don't mean extreme left just left.
'extreme left' such a laughable term

go back half a century and politics was socialism vs capitalism, capitalists won out and have completely changed the narrative to where discussion of the S word is considered extreme

to answer your question though i suppose youd consider social democrat countries in Europe as 'left', though they still suckle at the teet of imperialism
 

Mags98

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I think both would claim the support of workers, both certainly appeal to the workers and both have similar positions on big spending from the top into programs like Medicare - regardless of what scare text messages might send on election day.

They both position themselves far more towards bigger centralised control governments offering services to the people over smaller distributed government where people are taxed less and look after themselves.

We have the best of both worlds.

And I agree that both also serve the interests of big business or otherwise industry power behind the scenes.
the idea of right vs left being 'big' government vs 'little' government seems entirely american to me

both big and little can be either left or right. would you consider an anarchist society to be right as it has no state? would you consider nazi germany to be left as its 'big' government? obvs extreme examples but you get the point
 

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Taylor

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'extreme left' such a laughable term

go back half a century and politics was socialism vs capitalism, capitalists won out and have completely changed the narrative to where discussion of the S word is considered extreme

to answer your question though i suppose youd consider social democrat countries in Europe as 'left', though they still suckle at the teet of imperialism
The socialists are the ones who invented the word capitalists to create a juxtaposition for their own political position to grow.
 

stax on the mull

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What government around the world would you consider Left of centre?

What key points do you think make a gov left of centre?

I don't mean extreme left just left.
My history is in Australia and the people we are and country that we want to be. Just go back in history to see where we stood as a nation compared to the rest of the world with giving women the right to vote, providing fair wages and a fair working week, providing an old age pension. We've become a different country. 11 years of Howard seems to have ****ed this country up forever.
 

Taylor

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the idea of right vs left being 'big' government vs 'little' government seems entirely american to me

both big and little can be either left or right. would you consider an anarchist society to be right as it has no state? would you consider nazi germany to be left as its 'big' government? obvs extreme examples but you get the point
It's only seen as American because we are a big government, left wing nation. We tax, we spend on social services and we both expect and rely on the government coughing up for us.
 

Taylor

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My history is in Australia and the people we are and country that we want to be. Just go back in history to see where we stood as a nation compared to the rest of the world with giving women the right to vote, providing fair wages and a fair working week, providing an old age pension. We've become a different country. 11 years of Howard seems to have ****ed this country up forever.
Australia doesn't rate in the top handful of nations on the planet in spite of some bad way of life here or a lack of freedoms or services from the government.

Australia is a paradise, that's why so many people want to rush here.
 

stax on the mull

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Australia doesn't rate in the top handful of nations on the planet in spite of some bad way of life here or a lack of freedoms or services from the government.

Australia is a paradise, that's why so many people want to rush here.
That's the spirit that got us to the point where: "How good is Australia." and "How good are Australians" are only rhetorical questions.
 

Taylor

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That's the spirit that got us to the point where: "How good is Australia." and "How good are Australians" are only rhetorical questions.
Everyone wants to live here. We are going to go through a period where we don't have full Medicare access from hospitals but once we are through it we will be back to the envy of the world.

It's a paradise here.
 

Big Animal

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born in 1970s (or 60s) in Perth is IMO winning humankind's Powerball. Not many other better times or places in history to be alive. Yeah, we need to be careful greed or self-interest doesn't cause it to be lost as it's slipped somewhat and it's worth keeping on top of those issues influencing that - no issue there. But, it's still a monster lotto win for us here, no question about it from the general stand point.
 

prpl_jss

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It should be by average connection. It would be safe to suggest that a single state of Australia, except Tasmania, would have more kms of connection required to connect people to it than the entire nation of Estonia.

Just like how we would have better services for everyone if everyone lived in a single block of flats and didn't have our city so spread out that you can spend an hour and a half on the freeway and still be in the metro area.
Estonia have a digital citizenship program for entrepreneurs so not the best option for comparing broadband speeds.
 

poshman

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'extreme left' such a laughable term

go back half a century and politics was socialism vs capitalism, capitalists won out and have completely changed the narrative to where discussion of the S word is considered extreme

to answer your question though i suppose youd consider social democrat countries in Europe as 'left', though they still suckle at the teet of imperialism
Extreme left is needed. For example someone who is a Marxist should be considered extreme left, just as there are some on the extreme right. Those definitions have nothing to do with capitalism.

I see you are not willing to answer the question in any meaningful way so I will leave it at that.
 

poshman

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My history is in Australia and the people we are and country that we want to be. Just go back in history to see where we stood as a nation compared to the rest of the world with giving women the right to vote, providing fair wages and a fair working week, providing an old age pension. We've become a different country. 11 years of Howard seems to have ****ed this country up forever.
Every country changes over the course of 100 years.

Since we have done those things we have only increased social spending.

What did Howard do that needs to be undone? Why in your opinion haven't those things been undone?
 

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armpit

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Everyone wants to live here. We are going to go through a period where we don't have full Medicare access from hospitals but once we are through it we will be back to the envy of the world.

It's a paradise here.
It seems a shame that any Australian isn't aware they are living in paradise. Untouched by extremes of poverty, starvation, disease, mass killings etc etc etc. If you don't think you're living in paradise then where the hell are you?
 

armpit

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Every country changes over the course of 100 years.

Since we have done those things we have only increased social spending.

What did Howard do that needs to be undone? Why in your opinion haven't those things been undone?
I don't know when it started, but it's escalated quickly over the last decade in my experience of it. By the time terms like populism, post truth and political correctness became a thing I'd had enough.
 

salim malik

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Every country changes over the course of 100 years.

Since we have done those things we have only increased social spending.

What did Howard do that needs to be undone? Why in your opinion haven't those things been undone?
Political lies to garner votes escalated under Howard and have increased with all conservative leaders culminating with Morrison the master of lies.
Howard started the blame game, Morrison has mastered it.
 

poshman

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Political lies to garner votes escalated under Howard and have increased with all conservative leaders culminating with Morrison the master of lies.
Howard started the blame game, Morrison has mastered it.
But not under ALP leadership state or Federal?

I think both parties lie and bribe for votes. Do you dispute that?
 

armpit

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Political lies to garner votes escalated under Howard and have increased with all conservative leaders culminating with Morrison the master of lies.
Howard started the blame game, Morrison has mastered it.
None of them are that good. Which world leaders are inspiring their people?
 

poshman

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I don't know when it started, but it's escalated quickly over the last decade in my experience of it. By the time terms like populism, post truth and political correctness became a thing I'd had enough.
I think a large part of the problem is due to the internet and the profit model of all news sources. Accuracy and nuance are less and less important, while outrage and accusation become increasingly important. Until that changes I am not sure it will get any better.

This is seen in how passionately people attack the other side. Questions are not asked, people don't think the best of others etc etc. My dad and his best mate were on opposite sides of politics. I can't remember hearing either of them speaking poorly of a politician on either side. Those times are long gone it seems.
 

Taylor

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Most of the politics of our parties are the same, such that most of what they have to divide people on that doesn't open up policy attack for themselves is to go after the personality of leaders.
 

armpit

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I think you're right. All manner of media has enabled too, has enabled the use of propaganda and censorship. This had driven the divide you're talking about. The internet is full of anonymous cowards. Once you didn't talk about religion, politics or sex?? Those days are gone for sure, when now it's all you talk about pre season. Covid in my mind has been the ultimate, and on the most personal level divide. Even in Australia.
 

Bicco

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I am not sure what I am meant to be distracting from... Anyway, here is a lefty source as I know many of you don't accept anything else.


Even if you don't have the sub, you should get the details from the headline.

I am here after reading a lot of intensely critical posts. I am able to do it without personal attacks on a poster or the current president and am only bringing to attention the things others were so passionately critical about. I am waiting for some consistency... anyone?
Without knowing the content of the article and being hesitant to make an assumption based on the title, my understanding is that US politics is heavily swayed by billionaire donors and that currently the two houses are very evenly represented, to the point where two Democrats, Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema hold the balance of power. It would appear that both of them would rather uphold the values of their donors over those of their constituents or party.
Biden is then forced to negotiate to pay for his policy and the way that is negotiated is to increase taxes on the earnings of millionaires rather than the wealth of billionaires.
That is unfortunately the nature of US politics.
 

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