Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

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Fat Nyfe said:
Ah the classic non-apology
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Sounded like a pretty through apology to me. What do people want from him?
Don’t like the guy and dislike his commentary but his apology was fine.

what he said was silly and insensitive but I don’t think bigoted or transphobic. Something can be silly or rude without being those things.

He went as far as saying even his wife had pulled him up on it all. Not sure what else people want as far as an apology is concerned.
 
poshman said:
Sounded like a pretty through apology to me. What do people want from him?
Don’t like the guy and dislike his commentary but his apology was fine.

what he said was silly and insensitive but I don’t think bigoted or transphobic. Something can be silly or rude without being those things.

He went as far as saying even his wife had pulled him up on it all. Not sure what else people want as far as an apology is concerned.
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He literally said without any obscurity that trans women aren't women. If you have a penis you are a bloke. Not even JK Rowling was that blatant. He even went so far as to taunt the trans community. This is clearly transphobic behaviour and it concerns me you don't see that.

Like, saying he forgot he was lord mayor is missing the point completely, and he clearly chose to use his platform to target and bully a vulnerable community, so the classic "oops I made a faux pas" doesn't work either. His apology is just deflections, he didn't actually take ownership of his behaviour.

A real apology would be to acknowledge his bigotry and realise his actions on his platform have consequences. He did neither.
 
tacopavlich said:
He literally said without any obscurity that trans women aren't women. If you have a penis you are a bloke. Not even JK Rowling was that blatant. He even went so far as to taunt the trans community. This is clearly transphobic behaviour and it concerns me you don't see that.

Like, saying he forgot he was lord mayor is missing the point completely, and he clearly chose to use his platform to target and bully a vulnerable community, so the classic "oops I made a faux pas" doesn't work either. His apology is just deflections, he didn't actually take ownership of his behaviour.
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How is it bigoted to say that a man has a penis and a woman a vagina? He shouldn’t have taunted anyone - that was silly. In context of a combat sport a lifetime of testosterone matters. In providing health care knowing if a person is a woman or trans woman is very important. Saying all those things shouldn’t be seen as bigoted or transphobic. They are scientifically proven and should be considered.

There are many important questions to ask about the whole trans discussion. Unfortunately like many other things it is difficult to ask them without being labelled something reprehensible.

To reiterate - he shouldn’t have made the joke. I wouldn’t and no one should. People say stupid things all the time. In my opinion it doesn’t always speak to the character of the person. If that was the case every one of us is stuffed in multiple areas.

Also in the context of a combat sport it is important - as it is in other sports. There are many questions that should be asked about this and other matters when it comes to transgender matters. None of which should be done mockingly or in a way to hurt. Unfortunately as in many other areas of life these days there is little room for discussion.
 
poshman said:
How is it bigoted to say that a man has a penis and a woman a vagina? He shouldn’t have taunted anyone - that was silly. In context of a combat sport a lifetime of testosterone matters. In providing health care knowing if a person is a woman or trans woman is very important. Saying all those things shouldn’t be seen as bigoted or transphobic. They are scientifically proven and should be considered.

There are many important questions to ask about the whole trans discussion. Unfortunately like many other things it is difficult to ask them without being labelled something reprehensible.

To reiterate - he shouldn’t have made the joke. I wouldn’t and no one should. People say stupid things all the time. In my opinion it doesn’t always speak to the character of the person. If that was the case every one of us is stuffed in multiple areas.

Also in the context of a combat sport it is important - as it is in other sports. There are many questions that should be asked about this and other matters when it comes to transgender matters. None of which should be done mockingly or in a way to hurt. Unfortunately as in many other areas of life these days there is little room for discussion.
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There's a lot to unpack here. For starters yes saying trans men and women aren't valid and gender is defined by genitals is bigoted and hasn't been supported by any part of the scientific community for decades. This is not up for discourse, it's 1+1 =2. Yes the biology of a person is important when it comes to providing health care or elite sports. However it's extremely easy to talk about these issues without bringing into question the validity of a persons gender, and this is not the reason why Basil is being called out. You aren't seeing what the actual problem is here.

Approach matters. Basil's actions were not cute or silly. taunting lgbt people or any vulnerable group is disgusting. This wasn't a case of him saying something politically incorrect by accident and can't be dismissed as such. People say stupid things all the time but they do reveal meaningful things about ourselves. Bigotry and prejudice are extremely pervasive in society and a large chunk of it is conditioned without our knowledge. The correct thing to do when it reveals itself is to acknowledge it, and work on it. Nobodies perfect, I'm not perfect and have lots of things to work on. I used to think nonbinary people were teenagers appropriating trans culture because it's trendy. No one has perfect character, but everyone seems to think they do and deflect any evidence to the contrary. I reflected on my own transphobia, therefore anyone can.

by discussion what you mean is debate, and debate usually done so by people that have preconceived positions based on ignorance with trans people having to repeatedly defend the validity of our identity. It's exhausting and draining. We shouldn't have to continuously do this.
 

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Trans women have a valid place in society, but it doesn't include their involvement in combat sports against women.

For almost all humans ever their genitals have been an expression of their biology and statistically every single one has been one of the binary that exists within all mammals on this planet since they came into existence.

I'm not interested in denying the validity or humanity of anyone, entry into combat sports needs to be governed by your chromosomes. The rest of your life can be anything at all that doesn't hurt anyone else and you should live your truth.
 
poshman said:
To reiterate - he shouldn’t have made the joke. I wouldn’t and no one should. People say stupid things all the time. In my opinion it doesn’t always speak to the character of the person. If that was the case every one of us is stuffed in multiple areas.
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His conduct absolutely speaks to his character. If we had any doubt about his character, his non-apology reveals all we need to know.

His so called apology shows no understanding of the gravity of his comments. Apologising 'if offence was caused' is no apology at all. One of the first things I remember being taught as a child was that a good apology involved taking responsibility for your actions. Apologising 'if offence was caused' is the classic way to absolve yourself of responsibility for your actions.

It's the non-apology that does it for me. Hope Basil goes and gets educated on this topic before he spouts more drivel.
 
tacopavlich said:
There's a lot to unpack here. For starters yes saying trans men and women aren't valid and gender is defined by genitals is bigoted and hasn't been supported by any part of the scientific community for decades.
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I think more accurately you could say it hasn't been supported by the social science community for decades. Most parts of the real scientific community think it's bullshit. That doesn't mean trans people should be ridiculed or insulted. But queer theory as a "science" is an oxymoron, it is garbage.
 
Square Peg said:
I think more accurately you could say it hasn't been supported by the social science community for decades. Most parts of the real scientific community think it's bullshit. That doesn't mean trans people should be ridiculed or insulted. But queer theory as a "science" is an oxymoron, it is garbage.
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Gonna need a decent source or two to support this s**t.
 
Square Peg said:
I think more accurately you could say it hasn't been supported by the social science community for decades. Most parts of the real scientific community think it's bullshit. That doesn't mean trans people should be ridiculed or insulted. But queer theory as a "science" is an oxymoron, it is garbage.
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Doesn't really sound like you know much about academia tbh. 1600 scientists condemned Trumps notion that gender is defined by your genitals at birth. I study psychology and have uni friends that study other disciplines and the literature and views from most in the community supports social theory.
 
tacopavlich said:
Doesn't really sound like you know much about academia tbh. 1600 scientists condemned Trumps notion that gender is defined by your genitals at birth. I study psychology and have uni friends that study other disciplines and the literature and views from most in the community supports social theory.
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I happen to just do the scientific method for a living, so understand what science is. I agree there are lots of soft disciplines that refuse to expose social theories to scientific methods, that's fine, all power to them, just don't call them science. And again I can't stress enough this is an academic argument, has nothing to do with the lived experience of a trans person who has a right to live free of ridicule
 
Square Peg said:
No, why would you think that? Strange comment.
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Primary school teachers teach the scientific method.

Knowing the scientific method doesn't qualify you to dismiss the extensive research around gender dysphoria (hoping that's the correct term).
 
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