Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[Purple_Turtle]

the delta variant cannot be contained with lockdowns.

In 3 months we will have the NSW economy trashed if they just stay locked down. Vaccines are now the only way out.

I kind of hope it gets into WA to force people to get vaccinated.

WA is lowest in the country.

WA worst in nation for getting people vaccinated, sparking fears of more lockdowns to come

WA having the lowest vaccination rate of all the states and territories is worrying local businesses who have already suffered through three lockdowns this year.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Belnakor]

WA is lowest in the country.

WA worst in nation for getting people vaccinated, sparking fears of more lockdowns to come

WA having the lowest vaccination rate of all the states and territories is worrying local businesses who have already suffered through three lockdowns this year.

www.abc.net.au

The fact we were in a position to be giving 30-39 pfizer was an indictment on the program

 

[Purple_Turtle]

The fact we were in a position to be giving 30-39 pfizer was an indictment on the program

Speaking on indictments on the program how's this:

By now Australia could have fully vaccinated every Australian aged over 60, or alternatively 25 per cent of everyone aged over 18.

Vaccine blind spot shows limits of ‘following the health advice’

Conservative medical advice on the AstraZeneca vaccine failed to consider the broader costs and benefits, and politicians failed to override the mistake.

www.afr.com

The demonisation of AZ by the media and certain state governments, as well as ATAGI's overly conservative advice and failure of the Federal Government to navigate those challenges has seriously set back our vaccine roll-out.

 

[Belnakor]

Speaking on indictments on the program how's this:

Vaccine blind spot shows limits of ‘following the health advice’

Conservative medical advice on the AstraZeneca vaccine failed to consider the broader costs and benefits, and politicians failed to override the mistake.

www.afr.com

The demonisation of AZ by the media and certain state governments, as well as ATAGI's overly conservative advice and failure of the Federal Government to navigate those challenges has seriously set back our vaccine roll-out.

Not sure why everyone is surprised, our politicians basically gave the keys over to the most risk adverse profession in the world as soon as covid arrived.

 

[Belnakor]

The demonisation of AZ by the media and certain state governments, as well as ATAGI's overly conservative advice and failure of the Federal Government to navigate those challenges has seriously set back our vaccine roll-out.

in my opinion the media are deliberately trying to slow down the vaccine roll out as it allows them to sell more papers around COVID problems.

 

[Bicco]

Not sure why everyone is surprised, our politicians basically gave the keys over to the most risk adverse profession in the world as soon as covid arrived.

Yep. There's a difference in being risk averse to a virus that kills one in 500 as opposed to a vaccine that can kill one in 200k.

 

[Cesoir]

Not sure if this is too political, but I'm going to say it anyway...

The arrogance of the NSW government in slamming our handling of the pandemic has come back well and truly to bite them on the backside. Now they are asking us to give up our vaccines so they can try to clean up the mess they've created. In your dreams Gladys!

Gold standard indeed

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Not sure if this is too political, but I'm going to say it anyway...

The arrogance of the NSW government in slamming our handling of the pandemic has come back well and truly to bite them on the backside. Now they are asking us to give up our vaccines so they can try to clean up the mess they've created. In your dreams Gladys!

Gold standard indeed

Typical east coast BS. They greedily wanted our clubs' license money, our state's GST, and now our vaccines

 

[dockerfemme]

Not sure if this is too political, but I'm going to say it anyway...

The arrogance of the NSW government in slamming our handling of the pandemic has come back well and truly to bite them on the backside. Now they are asking us to give up our vaccines so they can try to clean up the mess they've created. In your dreams Gladys!

Gold standard indeed

Gladys is fond of a jibe at someone else.

 

[Reynolds Number]

 

[Purple_Turtle]

View attachment 1187547
View attachment 1187548
View attachment 1187550

Boots are going in.

Withdrawing Medicare benefits to people who refuse to be vaccinated isn't going to happen. Government would be better off creating incentives to vaccinate.

1. Allowing people who are vaccinated to avoid restrictions around Covid.

2. Setting a date (maybe end of year) where we're no longer doing lockdowns or other restrictions. If people want to take the choice to not use the vaccines we have available (particularly AZ) that's fine but they can't expect the rest of us to sacrifice or our children to foot the financial bill to protect people who won't protect themselves.

Scott Morrison's recent comments regarding vaccination not being a substitute for lockdowns in this regard were completely stupid; if we're just running an elimination strategy what's the point of taking the minuscule risk involved with vaccines?

 

[Purple_Turtle]

Don't know if this really ******* dumb or malicious.

 

[Reynolds Number]

The big boys are exempt from hard borders.
They are exempt from hotel quarantine.
They are exampt from some lockdown restrictions.

And they are exempt from paying back their government handouts while the unemployed are threatened into paying back theirs.

It's Us v Them.

Paul Watson was right.

Centrelink orders jobkeeper recipients to pay back $32m, while profitable businesses allowed to keep funds

Exclusive: Government accused of double standards after issuing 11,771 welfare recipients with debt notices due to Covid wage subsidy

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bicco]

The big boys are exempt from hard borders.
They are exempt from hotel quarantine.
They are exampt from some lockdown restrictions.

And they are exempt from paying back their government handouts while the unemployed are threatened into paying back theirs.

It's Us v Them.

Paul Watson was right.

Centrelink orders jobkeeper recipients to pay back $32m, while profitable businesses allowed to keep funds

Exclusive: Government accused of double standards after issuing 11,771 welfare recipients with debt notices due to Covid wage subsidy

www.theguardian.com

The attack on the poor by conservatives is unrelenting. Google pays 7% tax on billions of income. Not a problem. Joe Smith gets an extra $500, pay it back son.

 

[poshman]

The attack on the poor by conservatives is unrelenting. Google pays 7% tax on billions of income. Not a problem. Joe Smith gets an extra $500, pay it back son.

Last I checked Centrelink chased over payments or under payments the same way no matter who is in government... The same way Child Support is followed up for over or under pay in exactly the same manner no matter the party that holds the majority etc. We all want these agencies to be non partisan and to operate outside of the political system, according to laws that are in place.

I agree it is a crappy thing to happen, but to blame it on either party doesn't make sense in the manner in which you are stating the issue.

A family member of mine was awarded a business support grant recently (WA state government), they got hit hard, don't earn much and lost enough that there was serious pressure on them to meet their rent and basic payments. The gov gave them the money and then came back asking for a portion back as they had over paid. According to your logic, the state governments attack on the poor is unrelenting. While they let crown keep their power use rebates and other incentives while taking in millions... yet poor business owner (sole trader - tiny business) gets taken to the cleaners and pay it back son.

 

[Taylor]

WA will need to remain covid zero until the health system that hasn't been able to be improved in two years, that is currently struggling to handle a mild winter, is made able to handle the additional demand of covid patients. This will remain the case even with 100% vaccinated.

So McGowan is spot on with that plan, we HAVE to be free of covid - but it's because we can't handle it and the public should associate all lockdowns and restrictions once we are fully vaccinated with the failure to handle the public health system.

The reality is that when you push more money into the systems of health and education you don't get to take it away without it being something used against you politically, it's very bad for business.

It could be called the "One time only - 10 Billion investment over ten years to deal strictly with covid" and if covid disappeared in five years the headlines would be "Political Party Rips $5 Billion out of healthcare"

So I get why everyone has kept their powder dry on action for almost two years.

 

[Big Animal]

McGowan put his foot in it yesterday.

He could have said WA are aiming for 100% vaccinated or thereabouts asap and I will do what it takes to make that happen as soon as possible like the military leader I am.

1. it's accurate - he wants that
2. it gives us a goal and some sort of timeline or end point
3. it indicates to people who have been delaying vaccination that it is not a viable option
4. it gives the state hope for freedom in the semi-near future AND minimal health issues for us and our health system

Instead what he said

1. took away hope of us getting out of here anytime soon
2. gave an excuse to delayers and anti-vaxxers to hold firm as they will be protected with borders and no Darwin-19 in our state anytime soon

stoopid

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

McGowan put his foot in it yesterday.

He could have said WA are aiming for 100% vaccinated or thereabouts asap and I will do what it takes to make that happen as soon as possible like the military leader I am.

1. it's accurate - he wants that
2. it gives us a goal and some sort of timeline or end point
3. it indicates to people who have been delaying vaccination that it is not a viable option
4. it gives the state hope for freedom in the semi-near future AND minimal health issues for us and our health system

Instead what he said

1. took away hope of us getting out of here anytime soon
2. gave an excuse to delayers and anti-vaxxers to hold firm as they will be protected with borders and no Darwin-19 in our state anytime soon

stoopid

It was honestly the stupidest s**t I've ever heard and made me want to punch his smug face. This is coming from someone onboard with the snap lockdowns, getting vaccinated next week and I voted for him.

Lie about it, I dont care, but dont give anti-vaxxers ammo and whether he likes it or not, we cant lock ourselves from the rest of the world forever. There has to be a target for the general population to reach

 

[Belnakor]

Lie about it, I dont care, but dont give anti-vaxxers ammo and whether he likes it or not, we cant lock ourselves from the rest of the world forever. There has to be a target for the general population to reach

thankfully NSW have let the cat out of the bag. If NSW hadn't happened i am almost 100% convinced Mcgowan would have kept this exact system until he was voted out (probably in 2027).

There will be thousands and thousands of cases even with 90% vaccinated. Thats the reality of delta and the sooner we get on board with that the better.

 

[wayToGo_]

thankfully NSW have let the cat out of the bag. If NSW hadn't happened i am almost 100% convinced Mcgowan would have kept this exact system until he was voted out (probably in 2027).

There will be thousands and thousands of cases even with 90% vaccinated. Thats the reality of delta and the sooner we get on board with that the better.

lol. NSW are the real heroes.

 

[Belnakor]

lol. NSW are the real heroes.

Victoria's cases keep rising inspite of having this draconian lockdown. Same with Sydney. Ask yourself if the lockdowns are even working.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

thankfully NSW have let the cat out of the bag. If NSW hadn't happened i am almost 100% convinced Mcgowan would have kept this exact system until he was voted out (probably in 2027).

There will be thousands and thousands of cases even with 90% vaccinated. Thats the reality of delta and the sooner we get on board with that the better.

I don’t subscribe to the NSW are doing it well thing that some people seem to be saying. I just want a competent government that does the obvious ******* thing in:
1) Pump funds into the health system so it can deal with increased strain that will come from Covid (we seem to be doing this)
2) Get as many dipshits in the country vaccinated as quickly as possible.
3) Set a goal for everyone in the community to reach to open up borders (state and national).

NSW ****ed up, doesn’t mean McGowan can keep WA on lockdown forever. Once enough people are vaccinated, Covid is in line with the flu and we can get on with our lives

 

[wayToGo_]

Victoria's cases keep rising inspite of having this draconian lockdown. Same with Sydney. Ask yourself if the lockdowns are even working.

Well NSW have succeeded in convincing a few stupid people. Say you are in lockdown but then encourage people to break the rules and do nothing when they do. Then use that as evidence that lockdowns don't work and spread it through the Murdoch media empire so people that can't think for themselves believe it.

McGowan handling things badly recently is not mutually exclusive to Gladys and NSW being a monumental * up.

 

[Taylor]

If the federal government took it seriously they would have done something about a quarantine facility sooner.
If the state government took it seriously they would have increase capability of the medical system before the almost two year mark.

The defense for both is that when the spread rate was lower in earlier variants (it was approx 0.7% of travelers positive) their systems were working well enough even with bog average standards of protections within the hotels and staff going home to lick doorknobs.

Now that delta has come along and spreads so much easier, the sieve can't hold the water anymore - fortunately this new variant is far, far less dangerous with the fatality rate nose diving.

We bought a heap of time to boost our medical system's ability to handle what will become an endemic virus - yet to do that.
So we have to lock down, because our health system here can't handle our current needs.

NSW has shown that track and trace won't work with this spreader variant and the increase in case numbers could overwhelm the system faster.

The way out is simple though.

1 - Everyone who wants to be vaccinated needs to be able to walk in and walk out to get it.
2 - There needs to be greater capacity for hospitalisations, which will be unavoidable.
3 - The public needs to be educated on the reality of how dangerous this virus is, not sold the worst - just the actual numbers. Expectations can then be developed and people can make their choices accordingly.

4 - People need to get comfortable with the idea that some people will make choices that lead to their deaths. Yes, some people can't make that choice. Those people are also at risk, they need to be able to make choices to protect themselves.

 

[wayToGo_]

Now that delta has come along and spreads so much easier, the sieve can't hold the water anymore - fortunately this new variant is far, far less dangerous with the fatality rate nose diving.

Agree with most of your post but in the interest of your point about "The public needs to be educated on the reality of how dangerous this virus is, not sold the worst - just the actual numbers" you then shouldn't make the statement above. There is probably more evidence Delta is more dangerous than Alpha rather than less but we need a more data. Fatality rates are impacted by more than just how dangerous a strain is (eg vaccinations, improved treatments, earlier testing etc).