Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[BarbieITFC]

I hope Dutton is the opposition leader. Libs will be routed like they were in WA. It will be interesting that with talk of introspection if they put Dutton up as their solution.

It took the Conservatives (Tories) in the UK ten years after they were routed in 1997 - and three lost national elections with three different leaders - to realise that just putting up the next most senior party member as the new leader wasn't going to win. The electorate wasn't rejecting the leader - they were rejecting the party. And then after 13 years once the Labour party had drunk to many magnums of hubris the same thing happened to them in 2010.

The biggest challenge to the ALP having at least three terms in power will be themselves and not shitting the bed (replacing their leader) as soon as an opinion poll says Albo isn't as popular as he was last month.

Bizarrely, Sky News seems to be blaming the loss on ScoMo being to centrist and are calling for the LNP to embrace more of its conservative ideals...good luck with that.

 

[Dockeroo]

It took the Conservatives (Tories) in the UK ten years after they were routed in 1997 - and three lost national elections with three different leaders - to realise that just putting up the next most senior party member as the new leader wasn't going to win. The electorate wasn't rejecting the leader - they were rejecting the party. And then after 13 years once the Labour party had drunk to many magnums of hubris the same thing happened to them in 2010.

The biggest challenge to the ALP having at least three terms in power will be themselves and not shitting the bed (replacing their leader) as soon as an opinion poll says Albo isn't as popular as he was last month.

Bizarrely, Sky News seems to be blaming the loss on ScoMo being to centrist and are calling for the LNP to embrace more of its conservative ideals...good luck with that.

As an Irish person there is no political entity I detest more on this planet than the British Tory party.
Unfortunately they appear to have manufactured a situation in the UK where they are almost unbeatable in elections and the damage they have done since 2010 with no apparent sign of it ending is incalculable.
I wouldn’t be so quick to write them off either or point to them as an example of a failure of right wing politics. The Tories are one of the most successful electoral machines in the western world since the postwar era and it was really only in 1997 when Tony Blair moved labour strongly to the right and rebranded as new labour that they had a sustained period of success up until 2010 when that god awful narcissist David Cameron got the Tories back into power.
I agree that dutton isn’t the answer for the libs in Australia, but I also think Boris Johnson is untouchable in the UK for the foreseeable future sadly.

 

[Bicco]

Yep - as I said I would have voted ALP if it wasn't for the greens. And clive was second from bottom for me.

Others on here are not willing to talk specifics when it comes to their policies. I am waiting for someone to be willing to discuss and defend them.

On the Liberal side of things. As happened here in WA, there is no point in being ALP light which is where the Liberals went this election.

Hope the family is doing well.
I went and took the liberty of reading the Greens policies.
I can see a lot of things you would find abhorrent.
Free Dental, housing for homeless people, taxing billionaires.
Would absolutely want to see the detail on their gas and coal proposals. This is the area the Greens fall down. They are far too militant in this area and aren't good negotiators.

As for winning in their own right. It means little. I may be mistaken in my tired haze, however, did the last ALP government not govern though coalition?

Why does this matter?
The LNP is literally the Liberal/National party coalition. They've lead in a coalition for decades. Are you against coalitions in general or only Labor having them?

 

[BarbieITFC]

As an Irish person there is no political entity I detest more on this planet than the British Tory party.
Unfortunately they appear to have manufactured a situation in the UK where they are almost unbeatable in elections and the damage they have done since 2010 with no apparent sign of it ending is incalculable.
I wouldn’t be so quick to write them off either or point to them as an example of a failure of right wing politics. The Tories are one of the most successful electoral machines in the western world since the postwar era and it was really only in 1997 when Tony Blair moved labour strongly to the right and rebranded as new labour that they had a sustained period of success up until 2010 when that god awful narcissist David Cameron got the Tories back into power.
I agree that dutton isn’t the answer for the libs in Australia, but I also think Boris Johnson is untouchable in the UK for the foreseeable future sadly.

It was more a comparison with the the Tories from 1997 until 2010 - where with Hague, then Duncan-Smith and then Howard they just kept electing the same sort of person as leader and kept getting the same outcome.

Cameron did a rebranding exercise that post-GFC and with Brown as a bit of a shamble PM got the Tories re-elected. They then changed the constituency boundaries in 2012 that made it almost impossible for them to lose power - even despite the absolute shambles of the last six years.

 

[Dockeroo]

It was more a comparison with the the Tories from 1997 until 2010 - where with Hague, then Duncan-Smith and then Howard they just kept electing the same sort of person as leader and kept getting the same outcome.

Cameron did a rebranding exercise that post-GFC and with Brown as a bit of a shamble PM got the Tories re-elected. They then changed the constituency boundaries in 2012 that made it almost impossible for them to lose power - even despite the absolute shambles of the last six years.

Iain Duncan Smith.
Gosh I’d forgotten about him.
Possibly the most hard right individual to ever lead a mainstream major party in the western world in modern times. An absolute creep.
From memory the Tories realised pretty quickly he was unelectable and knifed him in the back before he ever got a chance to contest a general election?

 

[poshman]

Hope the family is doing well.
I went and took the liberty of reading the Greens policies.
I can see a lot of things you would find abhorrent.
Free Dental, housing for homeless people, taxing billionaires.
Would absolutely want to see the detail on their gas and coal proposals. This is the area the Greens fall down. They are far too militant in this area and aren't good negotiators.

Why does this matter?
The LNP is literally the Liberal/National party coalition. They've lead in a coalition for decades. Are you against coalitions in general or only Labor having them?

Why the need for the personal attack? Free dental and free healthcare - all I ask is that it is costed? I would like both in a perfect world but no nation has manage it. If you are not private in WA you already face multiple year wait times for serious surgeries.

I mentioned the coalition as the previous poster had attacked the liberals for needing a coalition to win government. So my statement saying the ALP did was simply point out that both sides did it. Not against them at all. Again, it wasn't my original post.

The greens use the word 'Redress' a lot. Do you understand that to mean 'Reparations'? Who will pay those reparations?

They also want to fund Gender Affirming Care - no care should be affirming or not affirming. Making it law to only affirm care means that pollies are taking serious health are decisions out of the hands of trained professionals. Before anyone if tempted on the personal attacks (I wish I didn't need to write these) I don't think the care should be biased in any way. The mandate must be best possible care for each individual. I an go into this deeper if anyone is temopted to throw around ugly slurs where they are not required.

That is only a few of many. As to taxing billionaires, they are already taxed more than anyone else in Australia. What does make them pay their fair share mean? Do you mean there should be a flat rate of tax say ~25 and everyone pays that on income? My issue with the greens is they are full of slogans but no details.

How will they pay for hundreds of billions dollars more in spending while stopping all mining? Well they will tax corporations more - many of whom will not be here anymore as our biggest companies are in the resource sector. So putting aside that massive problem how much should companies pay in tax? We are already higher than most nations in the western world.

That would just be income tax btw. You have to consider payroll tax and GST as well.

 

[Dockeroo]

The Tories in the UK are so untouchable that Boris Johnson could literally drop his trousers on live TV and piss on the queens face, and the daily mail, daily express and telegraph would say:
“Kind hearted PM gives her majesty a drink”
The nation where the westminister voting system was developed has ironically become an effective dictatorship one party rule state where the Tories will be in office for at least 25 years straight.
I don’t see any pathway to a labour victory anytime in the next decade and it Scotland breaks away, that will be compounded.

 

[Reynolds Number]

I cam close to joining a right winged party as a member in disgust over Covid policies.....as most restrictions ended and finding out more about certain Senate candidates they just got exposed as Palmer's party in different clothes. Didn't proceed with membership and they didn't get my vote.

I'd imagine a lot with similar thoughts. The one selling point UAP had to get a decent vote disappeared in April.

I'm not easily giving up my left stances on welfare, health and education. I would have liked a left leaning party to have campaigned against the poor treatment of Aussies refused access to going back home whilst billionaires could do what they please.

 

[Taylor]

Our compulsory voting protects us from the extremes of politics, it's truly one of our best features. For all the people who are swept up in dramatic political rhetoric, scare campaigns etc the majority don't notice much difference between one party or the other.

Australian politics tends to vote governments out more than they vote governments in, which is why protest vote parties are so effective at influencing the outcomes - they tend to fall right off the wagon the next election though. 2019 it was UAP splitting disaffected ALP voters who couldn't bring themselves to vote Liberal and handing those preferences/support to the Liberals, this year it was the Teals splitting the Liberal voters who wouldn't bring themselves to vote ALP and giving support to the the ALP.

I suspect that in 2025 the Liberal party needs to come to the table with something big. Something like a national plan for clean, green, nuclear energy and fresh water by combining nuclear power plants with desalination plants for use during the off peak periods.

I too hope that we have a strong period for Australia in the next few years with as little heard about politics as possible, a lot of families will need a lot of support in this time as the global economy hits a brick wall and although the government here isn't in a position to influence global things like supply chain, inflation or climate they will have to wear the negativity that comes with failings on that just as they will enjoy the rewards if they go well - that's politics.

 

[Taylor]

I'd imagine a lot with similar thoughts. The one selling point UAP had to get a decent vote disappeared in April.

This was why the ALP in WA dropped restrictions even though case numbers were higher than ever. The polling for UAP was taking away from the ALP primary vote purely on the issue of restrictions, so they took it off the table.

Smart move. Anything can happen now regarding restrictions though.

 

[Dockeroo]

I cam close to joining a right winged party as a member in disgust over Covid policies.....as most restrictions ended and finding out more about certain Senate candidates they just got exposed as Palmer's party in different clothes. Didn't proceed with membership and they didn't get my vote.

I'd imagine a lot with similar thoughts. The one selling point UAP had to get a decent vote disappeared in April.

I'm not easily giving up my left stances on welfare, health and education. I would have liked a left leaning party to have campaigned against the poor treatment of Aussies refused access to going back home whilst billionaires could do what they please.

Basically you reflect my thoughts exactly.
I couldn’t help chuckle at Albos comments that “no Australian will be left behind”
Hundreds of thousands of Aussies trapped overseas were left behind during the pandemic due to border closures that went on far longer than they ever needed to.
I didn’t hear Albo sticking up for those Aussies back then funnily enough.
Also Dom Perrotet deserves credit for unilaterally opening NSW borders in nov 2021, forcing the hand of Andrews in Vic to follow suit and effectually ending the closed border in Australia.
I have little doubt the state ALP in Vic, WA etc would have dragged it out until the new year other wise for little gain in hindsight. Just delaying the inevitable covid wave

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Basically you reflect my thoughts exactly.
I couldn’t help chuckle at Albos comments that “no Australian will be left behind”
Hundreds of thousands of Aussies trapped overseas were left behind during the pandemic due to border closures that went on far longer than they ever needed to.
I didn’t hear Albo sticking up for those Aussies back then funnily enough.
Also Dom Perrotet deserves credit for unilaterally opening NSW borders in nov 2021, forcing the hand of Andrews in Vic to follow suit and effectually ending the closed border in Australia.
I have little doubt the state ALP in Vic, WA etc would have dragged it out until the new year other wise for little gain in hindsight. Just delaying the inevitable covid wave

Similar to me, but everyone's a genius in hindsight. I thought most decisions, grants, etc, were bipartisan during the pandemic. If they weren't, Labor didn't strongly oppose them, they were fairly silent for much of the time, although they did want Jobkeeper to continue, which would only have added to the debt. To grandstand about the size of the debt now is a bit rich. And WA did drag out the border closure until Easter.

 

[Taylor]

I attempted a social experiment in which we shine a light on projections and ideological expectations in politics on the main board but I don't think people are too interested to lower the pompoms just yet - so I'll ask it here.

Given the level to which we impart the politicians who represent us with rewards and blame for the results that occur, celebrating when the correct side wins and feelings of apprehension when the wrong side wins - just what do you expect the ALP to achieve in the next three years?

What goals do you believe they have run on, what will they fix, what will be reformed, what will be made better, what will be made worse?

We will review this in a few years and I will postulate that the real truth of politics is that politicians allow the people to project all manner of expectations into them and then achieve very little of it - and yet those same people aren't holding them accountable because the other side is bad - but this question also captures those people. They too will see the worries never came to be.

Australia is a leaf on a river and more powerful agents external influence our inflation, cost of living, employment and economy and climate than any government here is capable of.

 

[salim malik]

Basically you reflect my thoughts exactly.
I couldn’t help chuckle at Albos comments that “no Australian will be left behind”
Hundreds of thousands of Aussies trapped overseas were left behind during the pandemic due to border closures that went on far longer than they ever needed to.
I didn’t hear Albo sticking up for those Aussies back then funnily enough.
Also Dom Perrotet deserves credit for unilaterally opening NSW borders in nov 2021, forcing the hand of Andrews in Vic to follow suit and effectually ending the closed border in Australia.
I have little doubt the state ALP in Vic, WA etc would have dragged it out until the new year other wise for little gain in hindsight. Just delaying the inevitable covid wave

Morrison closed the international borders . Albanese and labour hammered Morrison on his broken promises to bring home the overseas Australians .
Right wing voters and politicians never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

[Dockeroo]

Morrison closed the international borders . Albanese and labour hammered Morrison on his broken promises to bring home the overseas Australians .
Right wing voters and politicians never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

The borders were controlled by the caps in hotel quarantine.
Those caps were determined by the national cabinet. Some of the ALP state premiers as part of the national cabinet wanted them completely stopped altogether and the borders completely closed. Andrews, mcgowan and palaschyuk were the strongest promoters of this position. They just didn’t give a stuff about anyone trapped overseas. “Tough s**t” was their attitude. Until July 2021, 6000 people per week were allowed into hotel quarantine. 3000 of these were in Sydney. This Reduced to 3000 in July and that effectively slammed the border shut for thousands of Australian trapped overseas. (Unless you were Ed sheeran or Kerry stokes)
This continued until 1st November despite covid being rampant in NSW & Vic from august onwards. Zero covid in the east was long gone, never to return from august onwards. Yet Aussies overseas were locked out till November.
It only changed when Dominic Perrotet took over in October in NSW and declared that this is ridiculous, we are opening our borders in NSW and letting Aussies come home, there is just as much covid here as internationally now and the quarantine is now redundant.
After some of the usual bluster and opposition from Dan Andrews, he realised if he didn’t also open his borders and get rid of hotel caps at the same time thousands of vics would stream into Vic via NSW and he would have to re erect a hard border between Vic and NSW despite covid being rampant in both in Nov. that was impossible then and Hence he was forced to go along with perrotet and did a few days later, kicking and screaming probably.
If Andrews had his way he would have kept those quarantine caps in place till the new year and hundreds of thousands of Aussies would have been trapped overseas for Christmas.
You should take your own advice and never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
I was one of those Aussies trapped overseas and Dom perrotet decision to abolish hotel quarantine on 1 Nov was the single biggest positive influence any politician has ever had on me with a single decision. History will judge him kindly in time.

 

[salim malik]

The borders were controlled by the caps in hotel quarantine.
Those caps were determined by the national cabinet. Some of the ALP state premiers as part of the national cabinet wanted them completely stopped altogether and the borders completely closed. Andrews, mcgowan and palaschyuk were the strongest promoters of this position. They just didn’t give a stuff about anyone trapped overseas. “Tough s**t” was their attitude. Until July 2021, 6000 people per week were allowed into hotel quarantine. 3000 of these were in Sydney. This Reduced to 3000 in July and that effectively slammed the border shut for thousands of Australian trapped overseas. (Unless you were Ed sheeran or Kerry stokes)
This continued until 1st November despite covid being rampant in NSW & Vic from august onwards. Zero covid in the east was long gone, never to return from august onwards. Yet Aussies overseas were locked out till November.
It only changed when Dominic Perrotet took over in October in NSW and declared that this is ridiculous, we are opening our borders in NSW and letting Aussies come home, there is just as much covid here as internationally now and the quarantine is now redundant.
After some of the usual bluster and opposition from Dan Andrews, he realised if he didn’t also open his borders and get rid of hotel caps at the same time thousands of vics would stream into Vic via NSW and he would have to re erect a hard border between Vic and NSW despite covid being rampant in both in Nov. that was impossible then and Hence he was forced to go along with perrotet and did a few days later, kicking and screaming probably.
If Andrews had his way he would have kept those quarantine caps in place till the new year and hundreds of thousands of Aussies would have been trapped overseas for Christmas.
You should take your own advice and never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
I was one of those Aussies trapped overseas and Dom perrotet decision to abolish hotel quarantine on 1 Nov was the single biggest positive influence any politician has ever had on me with a single decision. History will judge him kindly in time.

Federal government is in charge of border control and international travel.
Dont give me that bullshit about a national cabinet.
Morrison set it up to control the commentary by excluding the opposition.
He was hoping that he would get the glory .Unfortunately he stuffed the roll-out and lost the advantage that the state premiers cottoned onto.
McGowan and the SA government didn't win with a landslide majority for nothing. The reason was Morrisons miss handling of covid.
The reaso the Libs are wiped out locally and federally in WA is because of Morrisons misreading the backing of Palmer.
Morrison promised to the overseas Aussies he would get them home for that Xmas then dropped the ball . He lied non stop.
Andrews and McGowan both hold huge majorities and Morrison and the libs are on the scrap heap. Morrison and the Libs are on demolished . That tells the story.
Spin cant change it .

 

[Dockeroo]

Federal government is in charge of border control and international travel.
Dont give me that bullshit about a national cabinet.
Morrison set it up to control the commentary by excluding the opposition.
He was hoping that he would get the glory .Unfortunately he stuffed the roll-out and lost the advantage that the state premiers cottoned onto.
McGowan and the SA government didn't win with a landslide majority for nothing. The reason was Morrisons miss handling of covid.
The reaso the Libs are wiped out locally and federally in WA is because of Morrisons misreading the backing of Palmer.
Morrison promised to the overseas Aussies he would get them home for that Xmas then dropped the ball . He lied non stop.
Andrews and McGowan both hold huge majorities and Morrison and the libs are on the scrap heap. Morrison and the Libs are on demolished . That tells the story.
Spin cant change it .

Lol you are deluded on this issue. I described in detail exactly why Australians were locked out of their own country for months longer than they needed to be.
1. It is a FACT that covid was out of control in NSW & Vic from august 2021 onwards.
2. Is is a FACT that perrotet ended the closed border in Australia by declaring no requirement for hotel quarantine for incoming vaccinated international Australians in NSW beyond 1st Nov 2021.
3. Is a FACT that Andrews followed suit days later (after initially criticising Perrotets decision publicly) and removed mandatory hotel quarantine for international arrivals fully vaxed from 5th Nov 2021.

What part of what I said above is untrue?
You taking about the size of Andrews and McGowans popularity has nothing to do with the points I made - a classic example of a strawman argument.
Scomo and the feds were pleading with the states to increase or scrap these hire quarantine caps for months before they did.

 

[salim malik]

Lol you are deluded on this issue. I described in detail exactly why Australians were locked out of their own country for months longer than they needed to be.
1. It is a FACT that covid was out of control in NSW & Vic from august 2021 onwards.
2. Is is a FACT that perrotet ended the closed border in Australia by declaring no requirement for hotel quarantine for incoming vaccinated international Australians in NSW beyond 1st Nov 2021.
3. Is a FACT that Andrews followed suit days later (after initially criticising Perrotets decision publicly) and removed mandatory hotel quarantine for international arrivals fully vaxed from 5th Nov 2021.

What part of what I said above is untrue?
You taking about the size of Andrews and McGowans popularity has nothing to do with the points I made - a classic example of a strawman argument.
Scomo and the feds were pleading with the states to increase or scrap these hire quarantine caps for months before they did.

Libs decimated vote wise with their stuff ups related to covid a major factor. State premiers held the lines with sensible mandates hence there approval ratings.
Polls tell the story , have a look at the election results.

 

[poshman]

Our compulsory voting protects us from the extremes of politics, it's truly one of our best features. For all the people who are swept up in dramatic political rhetoric, scare campaigns etc the majority don't notice much difference between one party or the other.

Australian politics tends to vote governments out more than they vote governments in, which is why protest vote parties are so effective at influencing the outcomes - they tend to fall right off the wagon the next election though. 2019 it was UAP splitting disaffected ALP voters who couldn't bring themselves to vote Liberal and handing those preferences/support to the Liberals, this year it was the Teals splitting the Liberal voters who wouldn't bring themselves to vote ALP and giving support to the the ALP.

I suspect that in 2025 the Liberal party needs to come to the table with something big. Something like a national plan for clean, green, nuclear energy and fresh water by combining nuclear power plants with desalination plants for use during the off peak periods.

I too hope that we have a strong period for Australia in the next few years with as little heard about politics as possible, a lot of families will need a lot of support in this time as the global economy hits a brick wall and although the government here isn't in a position to influence global things like supply chain, inflation or climate they will have to wear the negativity that comes with failings on that just as they will enjoy the rewards if they go well - that's politics.

I agree completely that we vote people out more than in. I think that is the same in the US in most elections. Biden for example was voted in to be a return to a moderate approach. He has veered hard left/progressive. I don't think it will go well for them in November.

As little heard about politics for a long as possible would be delightful. I hope that the ALP gov moves away from the Greens (which they are doing at a state level) and have huge success.

 

[poshman]

Libs decimated vote wise with their stuff ups related to covid a major factor. State premiers held the lines with sensible mandates hence there approval ratings.
Polls tell the story , have a look at the election results.

I am not sure there is any good data that says it was due to stuff ups with Covid. That may be a bias at work there.

I will be looking forward to you holding the ALP to the same impassioned standard you have help the Liberals to over the next 3 years.

 

[Dockers v Channel7West]

I am not sure there is any good data that says it was due to stuff ups with Covid. That may be a bias at work there.

I will be looking forward to you holding the ALP to the same impassioned standard you have help the Liberals to over the next 3 years.

I'm sure Rupert News will do that

 

[BanjoRules]

As little heard about politics for a long as possible would be delightful. I hope that the ALP gov moves away from the Greens (which they are doing at a state level) and have huge success.

Also in the same boat hoping influence of greens on the ALP is limited however they will have 12 senate seats wielding some clout over ALP.

Maybe the extra addional vote needed to get legislation through will mean someone like Jackie Lambie will hold the ridiculous policies of the greens at bay.

 

[stax on the mull]

Great. Top two contributors to the thread want to hear as little about politics as possible.

 

[Taylor]

Well I did try and ask people what expectations they had projected into the ALP government but nobody was interested in detailing what differences they expect.

It would be a shame for people to feel happy or sad purely because the team they have decided they are on, who both doesn't even know they exist or care at all about them, won or lost.

 

[poshman]

Well I did try and ask people what expectations they had projected into the ALP government but nobody was interested in detailing what differences they expect.

It would be a shame for people to feel happy or sad purely because the team they have decided they are on, who both doesn't even know they exist or care at all about them, won or lost.

I liked your question but in a newborn haze atm.

I think the ALP will struggle not to lurch further left and into on social issues. I don’t think they will do anything substantial on emissions or mining as without mining we are screwed.

I find the question a challenge as I don’t have much faith in any government to do the right thing about the biggest issues.