Discussion Politics

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George said:
The anti-Trump lot are actually more unbearable than the pro-Trump lot.
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Thanks mate using that in Trumps words as badge of honour .

My real beef is government corruption buying arms ......all over the World .
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Shadow World in South Africa - Bertha Foundation

In 2011, Andrew Feinstein wrote Shadow World, a book about the global arms trade. His book inspired a documentary of the same title, which was supported by the Bertha Film Fund and the Bertha BRITDOC Connect Fund. Featuring arms dealers, ex-military leaders, whistle-blowers, political leaders...
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gringo2011 said:
I like how the US moved in to take our barley quota. I think we might have been played.
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Well known it was part of the Trade Agreement the US and China signed in Feb that China had to take more American barley.
Trump, the friend and ally everyone defends on here has taken a huge dump on Australian.
Friend and Ally the US, Yeah right. They couldn't care less about Australia
 
Joffaboy said:
Well known it was part of the Trade Agreement the US and China signed in Feb that China had to take more American barley.
Trump, the friend and ally everyone defends on here has taken a huge dump on Australian.
Friend and Ally the US, Yeah right. They couldn't care less about Australia
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Other than this.
theintercept.com

The U.S. Spy Hub in the Heart of Australia

From a base known as Pine Gap, the NSA has been locating and monitoring cellphone users thousands of miles away.
theintercept.com theintercept.com
 

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SaintsSeptember said:
Your plan doesn't work because Crapple Australia don't make any money.
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That's why policies are required which dis-incentivise companies from making use of tax havens. To some extent this requires international cooperation, such as the European Union employ to prevent things like market manipulation ; but individual countries can use imaginative policies against such corporations. By allowing tax havens to operate with impunity the rest of the world is facilitating the race to the bottom and thus accepting defeat: "If the Cayman Islands only taxes corporations at a minimal level, we must all follow suit". This mentality must be challenged, as the consequences are very serious in a globalised economy.
 
George said:
Bringing up stupid articles about him only to attack his character is overdone, boring, and not worth paying any attention to. You lose credibility when that's what you bring to a discussion.
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Gotta say and know I will get in trouble for doing so that I believe this is a cheap shot.

Just because people post articles (without reference to said articles as evidence) to support what they are saying does not mean they lack credibility.

I believe Trump is not a good President for many reasons including the way he abuses anyone who does not agree with him.

He regularly:

Puts others down

· Calls others names

· Humiliates people

· Makes the person he is targeting think he or she is crazy, misinterpreting, or overreacting

· Makes light of the abuse

· Denies abuse ever happened

· Shifts blame for the abuse

· Uses gender, race, class, etc., stereotypes against those whom he is targeting

The list of examples is endless because Trump has an abuser mindset marked by humiliation, name-calling, blame shifting, and denial. He divides and conquers

I do not respect this behavior in a leader and calling it out should not be silenced or dismissed as a lack of credibility. There comes a time when the weight of evidence is so strong that you have to form an opinion, my opinion is that I believe Trump is dangerous.

You can dismiss that as anti- Trump, that is fine. This is not having a go at you at all it me expressing my opinion.
 
plugger66 said:
Well that’s not unbiased.
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Funny, my comments on politics have been pretty unbiased in general. Definitely more unbiased than some here.

Verdun said:
Gotta say and know I will get in trouble for doing so that I believe this is a cheap shot.

Just because people post articles (without reference to said articles as evidence) to support what they are saying does not mean they lack credibility.

I believe Trump is not a good President for many reasons including the way he abuses anyone who does not agree with him.

He regularly:

Puts others down

· Calls others names

· Humiliates people

· Makes the person he is targeting think he or she is crazy, misinterpreting, or overreacting

· Makes light of the abuse

· Denies abuse ever happened

· Shifts blame for the abuse

· Uses gender, race, class, etc., stereotypes against those whom he is targeting

The list of examples is endless because Trump has an abuser mindset marked by humiliation, name-calling, blame shifting, and denial. He divides and conquers

I do not respect this behavior in a leader and calling it out should not be silenced or dismissed as a lack of credibility. There comes a time when the weight of evidence is so strong that you have to form an opinion, my opinion is that I believe Trump is dangerous.

You can dismiss that as anti- Trump, that is fine. This is not having a go at you at all it me expressing my opinion.
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Is there anything you support him on?

Have you given him credit for the amount of testing the US has done? Have you given him any credit for anything?

If you haven't then what's the point in discussing it. If you can't be bothered to discuss both sides then what's the point?
 
pebblesofsand said:
Disturbing fact - USA , the wealthiest country in the world, represents less than 5% of the world’s population but have nearly a third of the known coronavirus death toll.
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So?

The US has the third highest population in the world (which includes over 50 states to manage) and were one of the first to cop the CV. Per capita, the death toll of the US is behind Sweden, Belgium and the UK - 3 other very wealthy democracies.

Scary part is that some big countries are really starting to cop it now like India, Russia and Brazil. They might end up worse than America.

But hey, why let the facts and figures get in the way of a good story to put down Trump and America for another day.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Disturbing fact - USA , the wealthiest country in the world, represents less than 5% of the world’s population but have nearly a third of the known coronavirus death toll.
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Why did you decide to leave out the fact they've tested more people (America is ranked 1st in total tests, almost double that of the next best country), are testing more accurately than other countries, and have half the population of Europe?

USA are ranked 12th in deaths per 1m/pop, why did you leave this out?
USA are ranked 10th in cases per 1m/pop, why did you leave this out?

If you want to have a discussion at least make it impartial.
 
gringo2011 said:
I was happy to put up an article of how s**t Cuomo has handled the crisis too. He's being lauded for his handling despite the fact that he's f’ed everything up and killed New Yorkers. He is being pushed forward to take over from Biden. All he does well is speak like he's in control while doing dumb arse things like talking funding away from healthcare in the middle of a crisis and not acting to shut down quickly. Trump takes up 99% of all US political reportage, he likes it that way. It also means he's much more scrutinised than others, especially here because it is literally all we hear about US politics.
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Not everything is about you.
 
George said:
Funny, my comments on politics have been pretty unbiased in general. Definitely more unbiased than some here.


Is there anything you support him on?

Have you given him credit for the amount of testing the US has done? Have you given him any credit for anything?

If you haven't then what's the point in discussing it. If you can't be bothered to discuss both sides then what's the point?
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I’m not biased on trump. Everything I say is true.
 

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George said:
Why did you decide to leave out the fact they've tested more people (America is ranked 1st in total tests, almost double that of the next best country), are testing more accurately than other countries, and have half the population of Europe?

USA are ranked 12th in deaths per 1m/pop, why did you leave this out?
USA are ranked 10th in cases per 1m/pop, why did you leave this out?

If you want to have a discussion at least make it impartial.
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Surely testing is about per population not total tests. You have used that for deaths and cases.
 
George said:
Why did you decide to leave out the fact they've tested more people (America is ranked 1st in total tests, almost double that of the next best country), are testing more accurately than other countries, and have half the population of Europe?

USA are ranked 12th in deaths per 1m/pop, why did you leave this out?
USA are ranked 10th in cases per 1m/pop, why did you leave this out?

If you want to have a discussion at least make it impartial.
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Sorry - didn't have time for a thesis. I'll keep that in mind for all future posts - is there a word limit?

So all posts in the forum now need to meet the climate change scenario that where, despite the fact that the vast majority of scientists agree that climate change is a fact, we have to give equal time to the minority view?

In that post I've highlighted the issue that the USA, the wealthiest nation in the world, has the highest death toll. Don't you find that intriguing - I'd put it down gross inequality within its health system which has been further compromised by the withdrawal of healthcare access to its lowest paid employees.

What do you put it down to?
 
pebblesofsand said:
Sorry - didn't have time for a thesis. I'll keep that in mind for all future posts - is there a word limit?

So all posts in the forum now need to meet the climate change scenario that where, despite the fact that the vast majority of scientists agree that climate change is a fact, we have to give equal time to the minority view?

In that post I've highlighted the issue that the USA, the wealthiest nation in the world, has the highest death toll. Don't you find that intriguing - I'd put it down gross inequality within its health system which has been further compromised by the withdrawal of healthcare access to its lowest paid employees.

What do you put it down to?
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Well you wanted to post about how badly America is doing with their handling of the pandemic but you left out important facts that must be considered for any rational person to form an opinion from. Didn't ask for a thesis, they are your words. You lose credibility when you intentionally leave out important information.

plugger66 said:
Surely testing is about per population not total tests. You have used that for deaths and cases.
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Sure, out of the most affected countries America is ranked 6th for tests per 1m/pop. Not to mention the many countries that America is helping with ventilators - this has to be considered, as without America's help there are countries that would be worse off.

38th overall, but a lot of the countries above them either aren't developed countries or are small countries/islands.

What is more amusing is you wanting me to be impartial because I post something in support of Trump, yet when others post negatively about Trump and aren't impartial, you (and others) have no problem. It's a theme of this thread.
 
George said:
Funny, my comments on politics have been pretty unbiased in general. Definitely more unbiased than some here.


Is there anything you support him on?

Have you given him credit for the amount of testing the US has done? Have you given him any credit for anything?

If you haven't then what's the point in discussing it. If you can't be bothered to discuss both sides then what's the point?
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As I said I do not believe he is a good President, I believe he is reactionary and dangerous. I do not feel the need to defend Trump, there are enough posters on here who do so no matter what you say.

Do you actually believe your posting on Trump is impartial? I am happy to say I do not support him.


I am happy to discuss both points of view, I do not need to say others do not have credibility when doing so and believe that is a cheap shot. What is your point re testing? Does that validate how Trump has handled the virus I do not believe it mitigates how he has handled it. As evidenced by the amount of deaths in the US.



How do you believe Trump has handled the Coronavirus?
 
Verdun said:
As I said I do not believe he is a good President, I believe he is reactionary and dangerous. I do not feel the need to defend Trump, there are enough posters on here who do so no matter what you say.

Do you actually believe your posting on Trump is impartial? I am happy to say I do not support him.


I am happy to discuss both points of view, I do not need to say others do not have credibility when doing so and believe that is a cheap shot. What is your point re testing? Does that validate how Trump has handled the virus I do not believe it mitigates how he has handled it. As evidenced by the amount of deaths in the US.



How do you believe Trump has handled the Coronavirus?
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What do you give him credit for? It's odd if you were to completely disagree with every single thing he has ever done. In four years you can't find one thing to give him credit for? I understand you don't like him and that's fine, would appreciate some impartiality, from the outside it feels as though the group on here that are against Trump are far more unbearable than the others, mostly due to the fact they refuse to acknowledge both sides.

Yes I believe my posting on Trump has been impartial. You ask what my point is regarding testing. I can ask the exact same thing for commenting about how America has a third of all COVID deaths. What was the point of that post? Without context, there is no point. My point regarding testing was to show that if a country tests more people and reports more accurately then they will undoubtedly have a higher number of cases and deaths, and total numbers in general. Saying America has a third of all COVID deaths and then leaving out other important information as to why that might be the case is disingenuous - a cheap shot at the president. Total cases and total deaths are irrelevant given population size. Cases and deaths per 1m/pop is a better measurement, and America isn't in the top 5 for either, despite what many on here want to believe.

I believe Trump has handled the pandemic poorly. His messaging has been poor and I do not agree with the country opening up so quickly, and have said so in my posts last night. Because I believe he has handled it poorly does not mean that everything he has done has been poor, for example I give him credit for what they've done regarding production of tests and ventilators, and now the fact that they are helping other, much poorer countries that are in desperate need.

I can only speak for myself and have stressed this before but I will continue to give him credit where it's due and I will continue to criticise him where it's due. You can be against him but at the same time acknowledge where he has gone right.

What I find interesting is that (in general) when someone has something good to say about him, they are asked to explain themselves, yet when someone does the opposite nobody says a word.
 
George said:
What do you give him credit for? It's odd if you were to completely disagree with every single thing he has ever done. In four years you can't find one thing to give him credit for? I understand you don't like him and that's fine, would appreciate some impartiality, from the outside it feels as though the group on here that are against Trump are far more unbearable than the others, mostly due to the fact they refuse to acknowledge both sides.

Yes I believe my posting on Trump has been impartial. You ask what my point is regarding testing. I can ask the exact same thing for commenting about how America has a third of all COVID deaths. What was the point of that post? Without context, there is no point. My point regarding testing was to show that if a country tests more people and reports more accurately then they will undoubtedly have a higher number of cases and deaths, and total numbers in general. Saying America has a third of all COVID deaths and then leaving out other important information as to why that might be the case is disingenuous - a cheap shot at the president. Total cases and total deaths are irrelevant given population size. Cases and deaths per 1m/pop is a better measurement, and America isn't in the top 5 for either, despite what many on here want to believe.

I believe Trump has handled the pandemic poorly. His messaging has been poor and I do not agree with the country opening up so quickly, and have said so in my posts last night. Because I believe he has handled it poorly does not mean that everything he has done has been poor, for example I give him credit for what they've done regarding production of tests and ventilators, and now the fact that they are helping other, much poorer countries that are in desperate need.

I can only speak for myself and have stressed this before but I will continue to give him credit where it's due and I will continue to criticise him where it's due. You can be against him but at the same time acknowledge where he has gone right.

What I find interesting is that (in general) when someone has something good to say about him, they are asked to explain themselves, yet when someone does the opposite nobody says a word.
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Ummm I have never said America has had a third of the cases, I strongly believe it has been handled appallingly in the States and the death toll reflects that.

I did quote your post where you said 'Bringing up stupid articles about him only to attack his character is overdone, boring, and not worth paying any attention to. You lose credibility when that's what you bring to a discussion.':

George said:
This is why I said what I said. Doesn't it get boring after a certain point? I mean look at what happened to my post.

Criticise his policies, question his leadership, all fine.

Bringing up stupid articles about him only to attack his character is overdone, boring, and not worth paying any attention to. You lose credibility when that's what you bring to a discussion. This thread is evidence enough that those (not even in blind support of Trump, by the way) that want to have a reasonable discussion are howled down for even displaying a shred of faith or support of Trump. This is why this thread is completely dominated by anti-Trump posters and those that want to offer a different point of view are non-existent. I know I've stopped posting about Trump in here because of exactly that. Not going to change anyone's mind one way or the other.

I agree with many of his policies but also criticised him for the way he has handled this pandemic. I also understand America has tested millions more people than any other country so obviously cases will be higher than most countries, and if you look at deaths and cases per 1m/pop you'll see America wasn't even in the top 10 worst affected countries (as per two weeks ago, not sure of the numbers now, haven't been bothered to look at it). His messaging has been poor and bringing people back to work so early I have issue with. See how easy it is to look at both sides and form an opinion for yourself. I don't know why people are so vehemently one way or the other though. If people don't want to discuss both the good and the bad, there's no point entertaining it. Just let it carry on as one big echo chamber of Trump hate.

I am looking forward to the football starting up again.
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You did not reference any quotes in that post, I get that you believe you were taken out of context but that is the post I was quoting nothing else.



I totally agree that you have the right to defend Trump, and also agree bring on the footy.

I'm out do not believe Trump deserves any more of my time!
 
Verdun said:
Ummm I have never said America has had a third of the cases, I strongly believe it has been handled appallingly in the States and the death toll reflects that.

I did quote your post where you said 'Bringing up stupid articles about him only to attack his character is overdone, boring, and not worth paying any attention to. You lose credibility when that's what you bring to a discussion.':
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Yeah I know, I was talking about the article on him saying he did very positively with his test result.
 
Johnnyrayflamingo said:
Gosh, imagine if Donald said that.

Cue The Sounds of Silence.
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Trump has said equally as stupid stuff. Biden is a senile moron, it's hardly a surprise. Literally the only thing he has going for him is not being Donald Trump.
 
Joffaboy said:
So much for the much hyped Swedish herd immunity

www.cnn.com

Sweden is still nowhere near 'herd immunity,' even though it didn't go into lockdown

Sweden has revealed that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had developed the antibodies needed to fight the disease by late April.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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It seems odd that despite really doing nothing by the way of social distancing it hasn't spread like mad there. We know it can take off like a rocket yet it isn't over there.
 
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