Discussion Politics

[pebblesofsand]

Well you wanted to post about how badly America is doing with their handling of the pandemic but you left out important facts that must be considered for any rational person to form an opinion from. Didn't ask for a thesis, they are your words. You lose credibility when you intentionally leave out important information.


Sure, out of the most affected countries America is ranked 6th for tests per 1m/pop. Not to mention the many countries that America is helping with ventilators - this has to be considered, as without America's help there are countries that would be worse off.

38th overall, but a lot of the countries above them either aren't developed countries or are small countries/islands.

What is more amusing is you wanting me to be impartial because I post something in support of Trump, yet when others post negatively about Trump and aren't impartial, you (and others) have no problem. It's a theme of this thread.

Look I could add heaps of peripheral things where they might have done well or not done well, but that is merely window dressing a totally shattered window and irrelevant to my post.

But in the end they don't change the fact that in the wealthiest country in the world, has performed exceptionally poorly and as a result there has been 100,000 deaths - and most of those are a direct result of failures in their health and welfare system, complicated by a less than ideal "federation" and magnified by the failures of an incompetent leader.

 

[Yawkey way]

We have our own political issues here, people voted this person in.

Exactly which is why the obsession with trump bemuses me.

Let’s be honest we have our own problems and a very uncertain future to worry about. I’ve become very disaffected as I’ve grown older and it’s just growing worse. As a kid growing up I watched man land on the moon, saw breakthroughs in medicine and many other fields and had a great belief that we could achieve just about anything.

Somewhere along the way corporate and individual greed has gotten completely out of control creating a wealth divide that at other points in time would have resulted in a revolution. We have new tech that’s killed journalism and managed to make even the New York Times a rag that needs to be fact checked.

Michaelia cash is a real piece of work bought and paid for and couldn’t care less who knows it. On a brighter note while many countries have looked leaderless or run by clowns I’ve been satisfied with scomo and impressed by Daniel Andrews. Frankly I didn’t think either of them had it in them so hats off to both of them and our medical experts.

Football can’t start soon enough, I definitely need a diversion.

 

[George]

Look I could add heaps of peripheral things where they might have done well or not done well, but that is merely window dressing a totally shattered window and irrelevant to my post.

But in the end they don't change the fact that in the wealthiest country in the world, has performed exceptionally poorly and as a result there has been 100,000 deaths - and most of those are a direct result of failures in their health and welfare system, complicated by a less than ideal "federation" and magnified by the failures of an incompetent leader.

It's not window dressing, they are facts and evidence to disprove the notion that America are doing worse than anyone else, and it's only irrelevant to your post because your post lacked any impartiality.

100,000 deaths is a horrific number, but why did you fail to mention other factors that this could be attributed to? You took the time to mention it was because of the healthcare system and an incompetent leader, but why not mention they have a population of 335 million? Or the fact that per 1m/pop they are ranked outside the top 10? Do you acknowledge that they haven't done as poorly as other countries? If Trump is an incompetent leader what does that make Pedro Sanchez, Giuseppe Conte, Edouard Philippe, and Boris Johnson? All leaders of countries doing worse than America.

 

[Noidenous]

Look I could add heaps of peripheral things where they might have done well or not done well, but that is merely window dressing a totally shattered window and irrelevant to my post.

But in the end they don't change the fact that in the wealthiest country in the world, has performed exceptionally poorly and as a result there has been 100,000 deaths - and most of those are a direct result of failures in their health and welfare system, complicated by a less than ideal "federation" and magnified by the failures of an incompetent leader.

Right, so you never feel compelled to point out that at least some criticism is not warranted.

 

[Noidenous]

You know, it has just occurred to me those who like to bag Trump ad nauseum are the same who blame umpires for every close loss.

What that tells you, I shall leave for your own interpretation.

Mine is these people like soft targets, low-hanging fruit and dog-piling, as despicable as that is.

 

[pebblesofsand]

It's not window dressing, they are facts and evidence to disprove the notion that America are doing worse than anyone else, and it's only irrelevant to your post because your post lacked any impartiality.

100,000 deaths is a horrific number, but why did you fail to mention other factors that this could be attributed to? You took the time to mention it was because of the healthcare system and an incompetent leader, but why not mention they have a population of 335 million? Or the fact that per 1m/pop they are ranked outside the top 10? Do you acknowledge that they haven't done as poorly as other countries? If Trump is an incompetent leader what does that make Pedro Sanchez, Giuseppe Conte, Edouard Philippe, and Boris Johnson? All leaders of countries doing worse than America.

When did they become leaders of the most powerful nation in the world? Next you'll be asking me to consider Peter Gutwein role in the NW Tasmania clusters next time I post something about the failures of the USA!!!

But OK - I'll start on my thesis - it will be 80,000 words - is that OK?

It will be titled An Analysis of the Failures of the American Dream - why the nation failed its citizens.

Expect in about 5 years. I'll post titbits as we go along.

 

[George]

When did they become leaders of the most powerful nation in the world? Next you'll be asking me to consider Peter Gutwein role in the NW Tasmania clusters next time I post something about the failures of the USA!!!

But OK - I'll start on my thesis - it will be 80,000 words - is that OK?

It will be titled An Analysis of the Failures of the American Dream - why the nation failed its citizens.

Expect in about 5 years. I'll post titbits as we go along.

Once again, I did not ask for a thesis. These are your words made up by nobody else but yourself.

I gave you examples of why context is important. Leaving out important information is disingenuous.

If you aren't able to respond properly, there's no point discussing it any further.

 

[gringo2011]

You know, it has just occurred to me those who like to bag Trump ad nauseum are the same who blame umpires for every close loss.

What that tells you, I shall leave for your own interpretation.

Mine is these people like soft targets, low-hanging fruit and dog-piling, as despicable as that is.

We all get it, you're morally superior and the only one with their eyes open. We are sheeple doing the bidding of hoards of lesbian thought police. I don't really have much interest in Trump other than a morbid curiosity. I buy into outrage articles just like you do because it feels good to judge a powerful stupid person. If he was as simple as he is and worked cleaning toilets, it would make me mean if I judged him. You read articles claiming that the educated are pretending to be woke while eating mainstream bullshit. We are considered pretentious thought- bullies with closed minds and evil plans for mind domination. Don't take it too seriously dude, you'll give yourself an aneurism.

 

[gringo2011]

This article is interesting because it shows interests rallying against Trump's election. This kind of ridiculous interference ended up doing the opposite and strengthened Trumps support. It also lends itself to conspiracy theorists and nut jobs.

The CIA's Murderous Practices, Disinformation Campaigns, and Interference in Other Countries Still Shape the World Order and U.S. Politics

No understanding of international or domestic politics is possible without a factual grasp of the CIA's purpose.

theintercept.com

 

[pebblesofsand]

OK - I get it.

Shinzo Abe has done a great job in Japan but he has been aided by a cultural system that embraces cleanliness, that does not encourage inter personal contact and has an established history of wearing masks, but by comparison Donald Trump is the leader of the world's largest economy but has done a horrendous job in preventing deaths despite a high volume testing regime.

Is that OK?

 

[George]

Tests per 1m/pop

Japan: 2,099
USA: 42,082

 

[Noidenous]

Tests per 1m/pop

Japan: 2,099
USA: 42,082

 

[Verdun]

Deaths in Japan - 777 Population 126.5 million

Deaths in USA - 93,214 328.2 million

Yep testing is important but:

Outcomes matter.

 

[George]

To record a death, you need a case.
To record a case, you need a test.

Tests in Japan - 265,502
Tests in USA - 13,920,391

I think we're all smart enough here to know that less tests = less cases.

Again disingenuous to not paint the whole picture. All I see from anti-Trump posters is one side of the argument. Where's the credibility in that?

 

[Verdun]

To record a death, you need a case.
To record a case, you need a test.

Tests in Japan - 265,502
Tests in USA - 13,920,391

Seriously, you seriously think the death rate occurring is higher in Japan than USA becuase more testing has occurred.


Recorded deaths is recorded deaths.

No need for your continued cheap shots re credibility, grow up and post on merit without bagging everyone else.



Impartiality???

 

[George]

Seriously, you seriously think the death rate occurring is higher in Japan than USA becuase more testing has occurred.


Recorded deaths is recorded deaths.

Impartiality???

No I don't think the death rate is higher in Japan than the USA. Have a look at you jumping to conclusions. Where have I said that? If Japan tested as many people as the USA did, they'd have 41,000 deaths. Does that deserve a pat on the back? Easy to say one country is doing better than another if you leave out important reasons.

Recorded deaths is recorded deaths? Now that is funny. Using that logic, Malta is doing better than the United States because they only have 6 deaths. Obviously you are smart enough to provide reasons as to why that is. I bet one of them is population.

Please some impartiality would be nice.

 

[Mowman]

be good when the footy starts

 

[Verdun]

No I don't think the death rate is higher in Japan than the USA. Have a look at you jumping to conclusions. Where have I said that?

Righto, I disagree with you. Will do so without having a cheap shot re credibility of posting. You do this everytime someone disagrees with you.

Bottom line I believe the way the States has reacted to the Coronavirus has been ordinary. You can attack everyone posting who says this saying they are not credible - I believe your posting on Trump and the Coronavirus is defensive and reactionary.

This includes the population of both countries and death rates:

Deaths in Japan - 777 Population 126.5 million

Deaths in USA - 93,214 328.2 million

Your logic of Malta is odd the amount of deaths in Japan per compared to the states is lower.

 

[pebblesofsand]

To record a death, you need a case.
To record a case, you need a test.

Tests in Japan - 265,502
Tests in USA - 13,920,391

I think we're all smart enough here to know that less tests = less cases.

Again disingenuous to not paint the whole picture. All I see from anti-Trump posters is one side of the argument. Where's the credibility in that?

So does this post represents the complete picture in regard to comparing the responses to Covid 19 by Japan and USA? No
So should I be critical of your motives?

BTW Are you suggesting that Abe has deliberately minimised testing in order to boost the apparent success of Japan in dealing with Covid 19?

 

[Noidenous]

Righto, I disagree with you. Will do so without having a cheap shot re credibility of posting. You do this everytime someone disagrees with you.

Bottom line I believe the way the States has reacted to the Coronavirus has been ordinary. You can attack everyone posting who says this saying they are not credible - I believe your posting on Trump and the Coronavirus is defensive and reactionary.

This includes the population of both countries and death rates:

Deaths in Japan - 777 Population 126.5 million

Deaths in USA - 93,214 328.2 million

Your logic of Malta is odd the amount of deaths in Japan per compared to the states is lower.

Yeah, but context does not matter. You set that standard.

 

[Verdun]

Yeah, but context does not matter. You set that standard.

Thanks mate appreciate that

 

[George]

Righto, I disagree with you. Will do so without having a cheap shot re credibility of posting. You do this everytime someone disagrees with you.

Bottom line I believe the way the States has reacted to the Coronavirus has been ordinary. You can attack everyone posting who says this saying they are not credible - I believe your posting on Trump and the Coronavirus is defensive and reactionary.

This includes the population of both countries and death rates:

Deaths in Japan - 777 Population 126.5 million

Deaths in USA - 93,214 328.2 million

Your logic of Malta is odd the amount of deaths in Japan per compared to the states is lower.

I've mentioned credibility twice and only mentioned it towards one poster, bizarre you are so hung up on it. Can we have a proper discussion without your constant attempts to trail this off into something else. I've taken issue with important information being left out of a discussion that would give reason to some of the figures that are being reported. I think doing that is fair and reasonable.

I believe America have reacted poorly to it as well but at least I see both sides unlike you and others who tend to leave out critical information that could be reason to suggest that whilst it's still bad, it's not as bad as you or others portray it to be.

You said recorded deaths are recorded deaths. You see the illogical nature of that comment, correct? You do understand that to record a COVID death, you need a COVID case, and to record a COVID case you need a COVID test. This is all fairly self-explanatory, right?

So given this logic, you would also understand that if a country tests less people, they will record less cases. By recording less cases, they will record less deaths. Correct?

It is poor from you to use death toll as a means to show how badly the USA have done whilst leaving out important information as to why the disparity could be as it is. This is why I gave an example of Malta, or any country for that matter that has a smaller population, has tested less, and has recorded less deaths.

Like I said, if Japan tested as much as the USA, they'd have 41,000 deaths. It's not impartial at all for you to say "recorded deaths are recorded deaths" and completely leave out other important reasons as to why the figures are what they are.

 

[Noidenous]

Nobody has mentioned why the top 6 US states for COVID deaths are from blue states.

In fact, I would go so far as to posit no-one wants to confront why that is.

 

[Verdun]

Nobody has mentioned why the top 6 US states for COVID deaths are from blue states.

In fact, I would go so far as to posit no-one wants to confront why that is.

Maybe there is more testing there?

 

[George]

So does this post represents the complete picture in regard to comparing the responses to Covid 19 by Japan and USA? No
So should I be critical of your motives?

BTW Are you suggesting that Abe has deliberately minimised testing in order to boost the apparent success of Japan in dealing with Covid 19?

You said Japan has done a great job and the USA has done a horrendous job. By what measure have you come to that conclusion?

Before you made that comment were you aware that Japan has tested 1.9% of what America has? Did you know that if Japan had tested as much as the USA, they'd have more deaths than Italy, France, Spain, and the UK (they'd be 2nd behind America, in fact)? Would you say those four countries have done a great job?

I mean what's the point of even discussing it if you're going to just leave out information.