Ponting !

[aussierulesrules]

The lack of respect for Ponting is outrageous, with guys like White and Smith already in the team Pontings replacement is going to be worse than those duds. Ponting is still scoring more runs than White and Smith, so he shouldn't be the one coping the blame by himself.

His replacement is "going to be worse" than White and Smith, is it? Really? You don't think if he retired, or was dropped, that they might just bring in Aaron Finch, who bats around the same number in the order as Ponting, and who's been in fantastic form this summer in the one day forms of the game (including a "man of the match" effort in just his second game for Australia (in the T20) and looks absolutely ready to step in at any time?
I'd be happy for Finch to replace White at any time at the moment, but they don't bat in the same part of the order, so it's not likely to happen. He does bat in the same part of the order as Ponting, though and I'd much rather he be given a go, than have Ricky continue to scratch around for 10's and 20's, as he has been for around the past 12 months. At the very least, Ricky needs to hand over the captaincy, or have it taken away from him, as it looks to be a huge burden on him at the moment, while Clarke seems to do it much better now.
And that's laughable to suggest that Ponting is "cop(p)ing the blame by himself", when just about everyone in the country is calling for Cameron White to be replaced in the team.

 

[Public Enemy No1]

The lack of respect for one of this countries greatest players is disgusting.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Without giving it to much credence I'd suggest it's a hatchet job by one of those "quality" UK tabloids.

I'm calling Bullshit

I think I'm with you on that one.

 

[Bomber Bears]

The lack of respect for one of this countries greatest players is disgusting.

I have great respect for Ponting the batsmen, he was the best bat in the world, pretty comfortably, from 01-07. He's been on decline since then, however, and sever decline the past 12-18 months or so. From that point of view I think it's time for him to move on.

I also dislike his hissy fits which have been more frequent in number over the past few months, and i think it's now coincidence it is occuring as his batting declines.

 

[Furn]

Which statistics are you talking about?

These i would say

What else really matters?

 

[King Elvis]

Particularly when they bag Clarke for the same thing after he's gotten out.

Ponting should've refused to front the press conference, then jumped on Twitter and apologised for not walking.

Personally, I hope he retires from ODIs after this tournament, Tests, give him until the end of our Summer, if he can make runs, he stays, if he can't, we see him off in a manner befitting one of our greatest of all time.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Ponting really is a great of the game and is in my opinion the third best batsman of all time.

Great of the game, agreed.

But do you really think he is the 3rd best batsman of all time??

I think he compares unfavourably with the following...

Sir Don Bradman
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sachin Tendulkar
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Graeme Pollock
Jacques Kallis
Kumar Sangakkara (epically underrated as an all time great IMO, one of my favourite sportsmen)

...and no doubt I've forgotten some too, I'm not that old

 

[glenferry23]

Great of the game, agreed.

But do you really think he is the 3rd best batsman of all time??

I think he compares unfavourably with the following...

Sir Don Bradman
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sachin Tendulkar
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Graeme Pollock
Jacques Kallis
Kumar Sangakkara (epically underrated as an all time great IMO, one of my favourite sportsmen)

...and no doubt I've forgotten some too, I'm not that old

agreed mate

as great a cricketer ricky has been, there's little chance he'd be in the top 3 or top 5 of all time. his record in tests in india is quite frankly pathetic, to be the best you must do it everywhere against everyone.

however, in terms of australian cricket, ricky really deserves to be remembered right at the top. when we talk about the all time great australian cricketers (besides bradman of course), i think ricky has every right to be up there with guys like warney, mcgrath, greg chappell etc etc

 

[TheBrownlowMan37]

Which statistics are you talking about?

These i would say

What else really matters?

All of a sudden the Ashes are the most important thing to the poms.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

The lack of respect for one of this countries greatest players is disgusting.

I don't see how calling for him to retire is showing a lack of respect.

From the way Punter has spoken recently, if the establishment let him, he'll just play on and on and on and keep skippering teams regardless of his CURRENT worth to the side.

Australia can't afford a non-playing captain.

Having said all that, I'll be one happy bunny if he puts up a good score at a decent rate on Thursday even if it's the last one he ever does. The team really needs him to.

 

[legend166]

I've always been a huge Ponting fan. I think he's been judged very harshly, especially over things like the Sydney test against India.

But simply looking past any of his recent outbursts, the captaincy or whatever, he's simply not scoring any runs. In either format. He hasn't been for the last 3 years.

His test average over the last 3 years (36 tests): 40.42

ODI average over the last 3 years: 37.

The fact is, if he wasn't captain, he'd have been dropped by now. That's the problem.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

I've always been a huge Ponting fan. I think he's been judged very harshly, especially over things like the Sydney test against India.

But simply looking past any of his recent outbursts, the captaincy or whatever, he's simply not scoring any runs. In either format. He hasn't been for the last 3 years.

His test average over the last 3 years (36 tests): 40.42

ODI average over the last 3 years: 37.

The fact is, if he wasn't captain, he'd have been dropped by now. That's the problem.

ODI isn't that bad at all.

For the last 25 matches in test cricket, he's averaged under 38. He's on the downward spiral in the longer format. He either has to give up skippering and /or go down the order if he doesn't want to get the boot.

 

[sherb]

ODI isn't that bad at all.

For the last 25 matches in test cricket, he's averaged under 38. He's on the downward spiral in the longer format. He either has to give up skippering and /or go down the order if he doesn't want to get the boot.

In my view, he must go down the order in Test Cricket irrespective of whether he retains the captaincy or not.

 

[SellerIsCrap]

Ponting to come out and make a double century tomorrow.

 

[Bombers_Forever]

Ponting should go,no question, but really.........if Clarke is the alternative, I would rather keep Ricky.

 

[The Big Steele]

We will lose the next three Ashes series.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Great of the game, agreed.

But do you really think he is the 3rd best batsman of all time??

I think he compares unfavourably with the following...

Sir Don Bradman
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sachin Tendulkar
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Graeme Pollock
Jacques Kallis
Kumar Sangakkara (epically underrated as an all time great IMO, one of my favourite sportsmen)

...and no doubt I've forgotten some too, I'm not that old

Ponting>Lara, IMO

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Ponting>Lara, IMO

Fair enough, these things are all subjective.

Lara was amazing up to the day he retired though, perhaps the one thing he (and Tendulkar for sure) may have over Ricky.

The problem Ponting has is he has flaws in his technique (falling over himself playing on the on side early, pushes too hard at spinners, now poor against the short ball) that he used to be able to gloss over due to his remarkable eye.

Now that age has caught up with him, this eye has faded and as such his flaws are becoming much more pronounced.

With the others, even the current greats in Tendulkar, Kallis and Sangakarra, there are fewer flaws and as such they will stand the test of time better than Ponting.

This is my theory for his fall so far.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Ponting>Lara, IMO

Surely you jest. Put Ricky in the Windies teams of the late 90's and based on his current leadership he would be averaging 15. Lara single handedly saved and won games for the Windies many many times and had to face grenades from McGrath and Warne most of his career. A luxury Ponting always had.

Lara/Tendulkar streets ahead of Ponting.

 

[western royboy]

Fair enough, these things are all subjective.

Lara was amazing up to the day he retired though, perhaps the one thing he (and Tendulkar for sure) may have over Ricky.

The problem Ponting has is he has flaws in his technique (falling over himself playing on the on side early, pushes too hard at spinners, now poor against the short ball) that he used to be able to gloss over due to his remarkable eye.

Now that age has caught up with him, this eye has faded and as such his flaws are becoming much more pronounced.

With the others, even the current greats in Tendulkar, Kallis and Sangakarra, there are fewer flaws and as such they will stand the test of time better than Ponting.

This is my theory for his fall so far.

A beautiful post and something that must be looked at by people way up high.

Eye player struggle when the key component - (their eyes) start to go.

Technique Players can still get by and go a lot further because they are less reliant on their eye to survive.

Go look at your local comp and look at the better batsman. In my comp they are all in their 30's. There are plenty of young blokes that can give it a whack but few that could keep out 20 overs on a seaming track.

Coaching needs to ga back to technique.

Ricky Ponting - 2nd best Aus Batsman ever.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Surely you jest. Put Ricky in the Windies teams of the late 90's and based on his current leadership he would be averaging 15. Lara single handedly saved and won games for the Windies many many times and had to face grenades from McGrath and Warne most of his career. A luxury Ponting always had.

Lara/Tendulkar streets ahead of Ponting.

Fun fact. Games won by the West Indies when Lara scored more than 200 - 0

Lara was the most talented of the Tendulker/Lara/Ponting trio, but IMO he underachieved for his talent. Long periods where he wouldnt score runs. Once he was set Lara was the hardest to get out, as evidenced by his ability to get big scores, but he definately could've finished with a much better record with better aplication/less distraction at times.

Ponting was a freak. hell by the end of 2007 he was averaging nearly 60 after 100 tests. That's a phenominal record. If the question was asked about the three in 2007 Ponting was comfortably ahead. It puts his decline in plain viewing when his average has dropped about 6 runs in that time.

 

[krusden]

Ponting should go,no question, but really.........if Clarke is the alternative, I would rather keep Ricky.

face it, Clarke is the alternative no matter if people on here bleat about watson or whoever else.
If ponting goes, Clarke will be his replacement.

Personally, I think ricky should give up the short game and drop down the order in the tests.
The short game is important, but this strategy would give him more time to work on the technique before the India series next summer. The3n reappraise after next summer where he and more importantly the team are at.
My concern is that if punter and say M hussey retired now for example clarke has watson and the (slightly) questionable brad haddin (in that people ask questions about him all the time) as his senior players.
So, we end up with the same issue punter had - lack of senior players = lack of minds to call on and i think that's what has cruelled punter. The fact he doesnt have warney or haydos in the slips anymore to ask about tactics and with senior players going again clarke (who's captaincy credentials rest on the short game) suffering again.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Fun fact. Games won by the West Indies when Lara scored more than 200 - 0

Lara was the most talented of the Tendulker/Lara/Ponting trio, but IMO he underachieved for his talent. Long periods where he wouldnt score runs. Once he was set Lara was the hardest to get out, as evidenced by his ability to get big scores, but he definately could've finished with a much better record with better aplication/less distraction at times.

Ponting was a freak. hell by the end of 2007 he was averaging nearly 60 after 100 tests. That's a phenominal record. If the question was asked about the three in 2007 Ponting was comfortably ahead. It puts his decline in plain viewing when his average has dropped about 6 runs in that time.

Yeah and that fun fact is testament to what Lara had to deal with for the majority of his career. Imo Lara could have been much better than he was if he had the support of his team mates and West Indies board. God knows what he would have averaged in a half decent team.

To say Lara underachieved for his level of talent is a bit rich. He had a crap team around him, a disillusioned cricket board and constant pressure. He dropped 500 in a county game, 400 not out etc - I can't see these feats ever being replicated. The fact that McGrath and a number of other Aussie bowlers have said that Tendulkar and Lara are the best they have seen probably is the best indication of where Ponting sits amongst those three.

Ponting may have had a good 2007 but Lara and Tendulkar (lara in particular) has had to to score runs with their backs against the walls for the majority of their career. Ponting is in Lara's situation now with a declining powerhouse..and look at how his batting is going. One season of dominance does not give Ponting the advantage over Lara and Tendulkar and never will

 

[Bomber Bears]

Yeah and that fun fact is testament to what Lara had to deal with for the majority of his career. Imo Lara could have been much better than he was if he had the support of his team mates and West Indies board. God knows what he would have averaged in a half decent team.

To say Lara underachieved for his level of talent is a bit rich. He had a crap team around him, a disillusioned cricket board and constant pressure. He dropped 500 in a county game, 400 not out etc - I can't see these feats ever being replicated. The fact that McGrath and a number of other Aussie bowlers have said that Tendulkar and Lara are the best they have seen probably is the best indication of where Ponting sits amongst those three.

Ponting may have had a good 2007 but Lara and Tendulkar (lara in particular) has had to to score runs with their backs against the walls for the majority of their career. Ponting is in Lara's situation now with a declining powerhouse..and look at how his batting is going. One season of dominance does not give Ponting the advantage over Lara and Tendulkar and never will

Ponting was good up until 2007, is what im saying.

Hell Dec 2001-2007 Ponting hit over 6000 runs in 60 tests averaging over 70. Ridiculous statistics. Across his first 110 tests he had an average of 59.3 with 33 tons. He was a machine for that period of time. Not to mention he's batted at three during his peak period, unlike Tendulker or, for much of the time, Lara
I also remember seeing stats to the effect that Ponting generally performed better when the Hayden Langer partnership failed than when they dominated, so he hardly wilted under pressure.

And you cant hold Pontings current performances as evidence of how he goes in a team in decline, because as a player is clearly in a steep decline. Much like other eye players (Richards, say) the career tails off at the end. If Ponting had been in a shit team much of his career I'm sure he would've done pretty well still.

And I maintain that Ponting has gotten everything he could've with his talent (much like Tendulker) whereas Lara leaves me with the feeling that, whilst he was supremely talented he could've gone a little bit better.

 

[frankrizzo]

I don't buy this whole ponting is a legend he deserves some magical finish line of thinking.

The bloke is an amazing natural talent no doubt, he's also incredibly tough and tenacious nobody can deny that.

What he also happens to be is arrogant and petulant, always has been from the time he burst onto the scene, success and power hasn't changed him he's the same bloke he's always been.

if he had even a modicum of self awareness, if he was honest about his awful run with the bat, if he acknowledged that the hook and pull shot are causing him massive trouble recently, if he had done the right thing and dropped down the order and concentrated on the one thing that got him where he is (and that is buckets of runs) then i could feel for the bloke.

That's not the way he is, he is just one of those blokes who thinks the only way through a brick wall is to headbutt it time after time, sometimes all those people get (and deserve) is a sore head.