Population of Australia

[Lionheart2]

I dont think we should be placing so much emphasis on increasing our population. We're clearly heading to an unsustainable sitution. The CSIRO has given our agricultural system another 30 years of life, we should instead be worrying about creating a sustainable future for the people that already call Australia home. An increased population means more development and total destruction of the nautral environment.
As BSA stated our erratic water supply is a major concern.....
It's scary to hear of the impact our actions have had on the Australian Environment!

 

[The Power Guy]

Increased population also places more pressure on our oceans... As well as increased sewrage outfall, there will be mor people to surf at the already overcrowded breaks! This will cause many a violent outbreak! Guys, stop increaing our population!

 

[Spogs]

BSA, Not sure where you got the price of water in Mildura for irrigators but it actually costs around $800 per megalitre for a license to pump plus another $95 per megalitre to actually pump. (It takes around 3 Megalitres p.a. to irrigate an acre of grapes and 5 to7 for citrus)

There also is a cap on water available for irrigation out of the Murray. Having said that though, water would have to be one of the major factors against an increased population. Not far from where I work I can almost walk across the river and there's still another 600 km's or so before it gets to the sea (and Adelaide, athough the Darling joins in down the road a bit). The point is that we have more basic problems as a country that increasing demand on goods and services via an increased population just won't help.

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Methuselah
Australia does not need any more people -there are already too many here, and elsewhere on the planet.
Instead of arguing for an increase in population because economics demands it, try reforming the economic system so that stability is both possible and desirable!
Any economic system that is dependent on a growth in the consumption of resources to be healthy is both stupid and irresponsible. The direct result of such a system is to convert the biomass of other species (plants and animals) into humans - and this will continue, despite all our efforts to the contrary, while we have this crazy system of economics.
We could instead develop an economic and social model more in keeping with a species that is on the verge of travelling to other planets and planetary systems -time we woke up and got on with the job of proper stewardship of all life on earth.

I agree with this 100%. Growth is only good for those that have something to grow. Our economic system has an attitude of "bad luck" to those who have to start from scratch. And it is getting harder, not easier....

I'd love to see some stats on the percentage of 25yo people who owned their own homes (i.e. were paying it off) compared to today... I think it would be at least double.

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Porthos
Isn't Broome near one of the biggest fresh water sources in Australia, fron recollection?

Yep, Lake Argyle. Apparently has 50 times the volume of water of Sydney Harbour.

Problems have been the cost of pumping the water from such a remote area...but if you built a major urban area up there it would be a very cheap source of water.

The major problem is that none of our politicians will have the guts to stand up and make these important steps to at least investigate a future policy for the population of Australia.

This is a very important topic as it is really about maintaining our quality of life. I wished our government was bringing out topics like this for debate in the community instead of boat people lies, GG cover-ups and Heffernan scandals, these sensational things are so pointless in the grander scheme of things and should not receive the media attention they get.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

hear hear to that one Breidis

Still waiting for government, but all I get is vaudeville

Spogs - my apologies, I actually went back and checked on that figure.

Its what Cotton Growers on the Darling pay for water, not Mildura / Riverland irrigators

sorry 'bout that

cheers

 

[Spogs]

Cool BSA, just a sore point.

 

[Joe Mama]

BSA, you shouldn't tar all irrigators with the same brush, any orchardists and dairy farmers worth thier salt in the Shepparton region (as well as Mildura), has spent thousands on drip irrigation and laser grading (Drip irrigation is a process developed in Israel and Australia, where poly pipe laid flat onto the fruit trees and watered through cuts in the pipe, which leads to more water going to the roots, less wastage and less water usage, and laser grading is where the ground is leveled on a slight angle which allows for greater efficiancy through less water use, and the ability to water more paddocks with the same ammount of water).

We're just like any other small business BSA, and how people squeeze every penny, we try to get full use of every drop of water (which is like currency to us).

But, I do agree with you on some points, BSA. Rice and Cotton, as you know are thristy crops not suited to the areas of which we're growing these products (Deniliquin, Leeton etc,) where it's close to being desert, and we need to find a way for them to not use so much water through throwing more money at the CSIRO to discover a new strain of rice or cotton that uses much less water, and some city people need to shoulder some of the blame as well, when you work on a dairy, you know just how precious water is and when I see people waste water willy nilly on thirsty gardens and watering drivways, that really makes my blood boil.

P.S
At the Tatura water exchange for Goulburn/Murray water, the asking price per magalitre (1,000,000 lt) is $210, the highest price ever.

 

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Briedis


Yep, Lake Argyle. Apparently has 50 times the volume of water of Sydney Harbour.

Problems have been the cost of pumping the water from such a remote area...but if you built a major urban area up there it would be a very cheap source of water.

The major problem is that none of our politicians will have the guts to stand up and make these important steps to at least investigate a future policy for the population of Australia.

This is a very important topic as it is really about maintaining our quality of life. I wished our government was bringing out topics like this for debate in the community instead of boat people lies, GG cover-ups and Heffernan scandals, these sensational things are so pointless in the grander scheme of things and should not receive the media attention they get.

The idea to build a pipeline has been mooted many times.........the NT govt has indicated piping down to Alice Springs as their local water supply will be unsustainable within 15-20 years (even now it costs double the rate we pay for water in the NT to extract it - source my employer the Power & Water Authority).

There was a show on the ABC about a month ago that came out of WA saying that with if we continue to use water at the rate we currently do in Australia we have about 50-70 years before we will be in very serious trouble.........and that includes the water supply at Lake Argyle.......

As for politicians doing anything about it.........I don't see them doing anything about it until we reach a crisis point as they only ever seem interested in looking no more than 4 years in the future.........

If we can find a solution to this water crisis the country could indeed support a much bigger population but without a solution even our current population level will mean serious problems.......

Sadly our continuing destruction of the environment doesn't seem to concern any of the major political parties in this country.......even the tree planting exercises that have been going on for a number of years fail to keep up with the ridiculous rate of land clearing we continue to do.........

I was stunned at the lack of concern from many people about the large chunk of pack ice in Antartica that broke away recently...........

maybe we will change and learn before it is far too late to turn things around..........but IMO it seems we just continue to ignore the signs of nature.......

 

[Bomberboyokay]

 

[Power Raid]

Hopefully we take in a heap of honkies

1 m would be nice over here in the west, building up our regional centres

 

[RobbieK]

Australia does not need any more people -there are already too many here, and elsewhere on the planet.
Instead of arguing for an increase in population because economics demands it, try reforming the economic system so that stability is both possible and desirable!
Any economic system that is dependent on a growth in the consumption of resources to be healthy is both stupid and irresponsible. The direct result of such a system is to convert the biomass of other species (plants and animals) into humans - and this will continue, despite all our efforts to the contrary, while we have this crazy system of economics.
We could instead develop an economic and social model more in keeping with a species that is on the verge of travelling to other planets and planetary systems -time we woke up and got on with the job of proper stewardship of all life on earth.

Easily the best post in the thread.

 

[Power Raid]

Australia does not need any more people -there are already too many here, and elsewhere on the planet.
Instead of arguing for an increase in population because economics demands it, try reforming the economic system so that stability is both possible and desirable!
Any economic system that is dependent on a growth in the consumption of resources to be healthy is both stupid and irresponsible. The direct result of such a system is to convert the biomass of other species (plants and animals) into humans - and this will continue, despite all our efforts to the contrary, while we have this crazy system of economics.
We could instead develop an economic and social model more in keeping with a species that is on the verge of travelling to other planets and planetary systems -time we woke up and got on with the job of proper stewardship of all life on earth.

Globally there is no shortage of resources, so I don't get the debate the planet is over populated
Australia is definitely under populated but our major cities are over populated from a social-equity perspective leading to low quality of life

I agree re social change is required and starting with banning cities over the population of 1m should be implemented. A property tax would address this issue and see decentralisation over time.

What is certain though is wealth = better environmental outcomes. Wealth is correlated to cheap reliable power. Understanding this correlation makes the some other decisions very easy and this will in turn provide abundant fresh water, hydrogen from brackish water (rather than ammonia and brown coal celebrated by the "clean" industry) and for the first time environmentally friendly hydroponics systems allowing the closure of ALL farms (returning farms to native bushlands).

 

[Fire]

Odd post to bump when a new one would have been less distracting;

But Australia will need 100 milliom or more in order to secure itself over the next century.

I think urbanisation might start to reverse soon; with more amd more people being able to telecommute to work, then cheaper and more sizeable communities will become more desierable. I think the next generation will be able to work highly skilled jobs for leading global companies in Wangaratta.

If Israel can make a desert bloom, so can we.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I wonder if the permanent migration paradigm is still the right one. Notwithstanding the current COVID crisis of course.

But in future, after we have a COVID vaccine and all that, would we be better off issuing standing visas to people of certain selected countries, giving them the right to come and go as they please. The right to work in Australia at any time, but there would be no need for them to take up permanent residency. They could do seasonal work for short periods and then return to their home country the rest of the year, or they could live permanently, or they could be business travellers who make frequent visits. They'd need to register as Australian taxpayers of course for any money they earn here. They would not be entitled to vote, and social security would be rather limited. It is not a form of citizenship, they would still travel under their foreign passports, but they could just come and go as they please. These people would need to have some level of English language skills of course.

 

[Seeds]

I argue this with my housemate (we argue alot) and of course I'm coming to Bigfooty's brains trust (!) for some further ammo (or have my argument shot down in flames).

The questions are:
How many people do you think Australia can support?
Assuming we are trying to grow centres which are not currently large cities (can Sydney and Melbourne support many more people? It's doubtful) where do you think the population should be centred? How would we get people to settle there?

I think Australia can support around 35 million people, possibly more, if regional centres were developed over the larger cities. Places like Cairns, Townsville, Rockhampton, Darwin, Canberra. The problem seems to be that migrants want to be where their countrymen are, and that invariably seems to be Sydney or Melbourne. I think a national policy focussing on Australia's population distribution would be a good idea, and incentives to move to regional centres (assuming there are jobs there) would be a good idea. Maybe even creating some new regions and redefining state boundaries and responsibilities (hey! SydneyFan brought it up!) would help. Lop the top off Queensland and make it Carpricornia, wih the Cairns the capital, that sort of thing.

In any case, what do you think the strategy should be?

In 15-30 years when renewble energy is almost free and we can grow crops in multistory buildings and have animal free meat then australia could easily hold about 1 billion people. And no this is not sarcastic. We couid easily build the infrastructure in that time because as you add more people you have more construction workers.

 

[medusala]

Clearly Sydney can't take much more. But economically we desperately need more people.

No we dont. Mass immigration does nothing for per capita gdp.

 

[Rob R]

In 15-30 years when renewble energy is almost free and we can grow crops in multistory buildings and have animal free meat then australia could easily hold about 1 billion people. And no this is not sarcastic. We couid easily build the infrastructure in that time because as you add more people you have more construction workers.

Technically we could but why would we want to repeat the mistakes of overseas and grow our population. Australia has gone down hill as population growth has accelerated with the only benefit being fake ponzi type econmic growth that has done little for the average citizen.

Lets keep immigration at current near zero levels until we have a proper review into what we really need and can support not just thr two major.parties ignoring the issue because of their own property portfolios and interest groups (developers and unions)

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Seeds]

Technically we could but why would we want to repeat the mistakes of overseas and grow our population. Australia has gone down hill as population growth has accelerated with the only benefit being fake ponzi type econmic growth that has done little for the average citizen.

Lets keep immigration at current near zero levels until we have a proper review into what we really need and can support not just thr two major.parties ignoring the issue because of their own property portfolios and interest groups (developers and unions)

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Cos immigrants usually come in at the bottom and make locals rich.

Point is the constraints on population growth are going to basically disapear in the next couple of decades due to new technologies. No longer will we be constrained by food or energy constraints. Its going to be a new world.

 

[RobbieK]

In 15-30 years when renewble energy is almost free and we can grow crops in multistory buildings and have animal free meat then australia could easily hold about 1 billion people. And no this is not sarcastic. We couid easily build the infrastructure in that time because as you add more people you have more construction workers.

Increasing our population to 1 billion is a 4000% increase on our current population.

The idea that we build the infrastructure for that kind of population by 2050 waltzes straight past fantasy and on towards delusion.

 

[Seeds]

Increasing our population to 1 billion is a 4000% increase on our current population.

The idea that we build the infrastructure for that kind of population by 2050 waltzes straight past fantasy and on towards delusion.

Why? The immigrants can help build the infrastructure. It really is very doable if you have adequate food and energy supply.

 

[RobbieK]

Why? The immigrants can help build the infrastructure. It really is very doable if you have adequate food and energy supply.

1. We don't have adequate food and energy supply and it isn't clear that we ever will have it.
2. Even if we did, you are talking about a rise of population from 22 million to 1 billion. This does not happen in 30 years.

This is pure fantasy.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

If Israel can make a desert bloom, so can we.

Could they do it without foreign money and probably stolen foreign water?

 

[Rob R]

Cos immigrants usually come in at the bottom and make locals rich.

Point is the constraints on population growth are going to basically disapear in the next couple of decades due to new technologies. No longer will we be constrained by food or energy constraints. Its going to be a new world.

Excessive immigration has made a small number of locals richer, for most it has made things worse with cities like Melbourne and Sydney increasingly unaffordable and unlivable. We need to start working towards zero net growth to stabilise our population at around 30 million.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Seeds]

Excessive immigration has made a small number of locals richer, for most it has made things worse with cities like Melbourne and Sydney increasingly unaffordable and unlivable. We need to start working towards zero net growth to stabilise our population at around 30 million.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Unaffordability of housing has nothing to do with immigrants and everything to do with poor housing policy. We have heaps of land (virtually infinite) that can be used as housing in this country but the government wont allow it either deliberately or through imposing to much regulation. Blame the government. Not immigrants.


Where did you magic the 30 million from? Why 30 million? Why not 100 million? Why not 3 million?