AFLW Port Adelaide, Essendon, Hawthorn and Sydney Swans - AFLW expansion, teams 15-18

I will just outline the relevant facts in the OP. Then, in the following posts, I will tell you all what to think.

AFL WOMEN'S

June 2016

AFL announces inaugural 8 teams for the new women's league.

September 2017
AFL announces women's league will expand to 10 teams in 2019, and to 14 teams in 2020.

October 2019
AFLW players agree to a new three-year CBA, delivering a year-on-year increase to player payments and season length from to 2020 to 2022. An independent review of the competition was also agreed to by the AFL and the players.

June 2020
The AFL informs AFL club presidents and CEOs that the AFL Commission ratified a recommendation by the football operations department for no change to the current AFLW CBA.

December 2020
Following the Seven Network's extension for the 2023-2024 seasons announced earlier in the year, the AFL also extends broadcast rights deal with Foxtel and Telstra by two years.

May 2021
The AFL announces all 18 teams will have a team by the 2023-24 season. Clubs without a licence (Ess, Haw, PA and Syd) can also apply for early inclusion into the competition (for the 2022-23 season), which the AFL Commission will likely decide on by the end of August 2021.


PORT ADELAIDE

2017

Did not bid for a licence.

June 2018
Signalled their intent to join the league. CEO Keith Thomas said: "We already provide a pathway for young female athletes through our Women's Academy and our Women's Aboriginal AFL Academy, which is the first of its kind in Australia. Port Adelaide is now looking forward to working with the SANFL to further our capabilities in this area with the view to ultimately entering the AFLW competition at the next available opportunity."

June 2019
Began playing exhibition Showdown games against the Adelaide Crows. Port drew their players from West Adelaide, South Adelaide, Norwood and Woodville-West Torrens, per the alignment of the Next Generation Academies. Games were played as curtain-raisers to SANFL games at traditional suburban venues, including Alberton Oval which has also hosted AFL pre-season matches featuring PAFC.

Some might say that the first women's exhibition Showdown occurred in 2004, however, which of course featured Erin Phillips in teal.

October 2020
Four players who represented the club as part of its Next Generation Academy Program were selected by clubs in the 2020 AFLW National Draft: Teah Charlton, Rachelle Martin (both taken by the Adelaide Crows), Indy Tahau (Brisbane Lions) and Bella Smith (Collingwood).

Several AFLW clubs have looked to strengthen their lists by drafting other SANFLW players in recent years too, including: Hannah Priest, Tahlia Meyer (both St Kilda), Lauren Gauci, Amber Ward, Katelyn Pope (all West Coast), Georgia Bevan, Brittany Perry, Cheyenne Hammond (Gold Coast) and Lucy Bellinger (Brisbane).


ESSENDON

2016

Did not bid for a licence.

June 2017
Launched bid for a licence. Georgia Patrikios and Michaela Long featured prominently in the bid as examples of footballers who "want to play for Essendon in the AFLW".

The club's pitch included plans to grow and develop pathways in remote Northern Territory communities and wants to play the first ever AFLW game in a remote indigenous community in its first season if successful. Also stated plans to play games at Highgate Recreation Reserve in Craigieburn and possibly Windy Hill (which already hosts VFL/W fixtures).

"If successful in our submission, we believe an AFLW team will have a huge impact on our ability to connect and grow the game in the north-west corridor of Melbourne and in our next generation zones of Tiwi Islands and Maningrida," chief executive Xavier Campbell said.

July 2017
Committed to fielding a VFL Women's team in 2018.

"We are (committed to it no matter what happens with the AFLW licence) … based in the northwest corridor, with a really strong link to our heartland and a strong alignment to the Calder Cannons' youth girls academy," Essendon chief executive Xavier Campbell told the Herald Sun. "That's a significant and important step to hopefully earning an AFLW licence in 2019. (Current VFLW team) Darebin is probably a bit closer than Diamond Creek, but then you go across to the Western Spurs, so there's a big gap."

September 2017
Bid for licence rejected. The AFL said Essendon and Hawthorn put in strong bids and would work with them to improve their chances of receiving a licence in the future.

October 2018
Madison Prespakis (standout junior from the Calder Cannons) and Danielle Ponter (NT product of Long and Rioli lineage who played for Essendon in the VFLW) are drafted by Carlton and Adelaide at the 2018 AFLW National Draft. Other Essendon District Football League juniors to play in the AFLW include Monique Conti, Isabel Huntington and Nicola Stevens.

May 2020
The Bombers claim they can have an AFLW side in 2022. "Prior to the industry shutdown due to the COVID-19 pandemic, we [Essendon] wrote to Steve Hocking [AFL football operations boss] to seek clarity about the AFL's future expansion plans for the national women's competition," Essendon chief executive Xavier Campbell told The Age.

"Clearly our industry has been presented with significant challenges, but we are committed to women's football at the elite AFLW level and we are keen to get clarity on what timelines around entry into the competition look like sooner rather than later."

November 2020
Received $6.28m in funding from the Victorian State Government to complete the second stage of a $21 million development to its training centre.

Reportedly a major focus on female football both at the elite and community levels in the development, with the Bombers stating the club was "affirming its commitment to gain entry into the AFLW competition as soon as 2022."


HAWTHORN

2016

Did not bid for a licence.

May 2017
Plans to apply for a license announced. A letter to club members said: "With our feet now firmly embedded at a grass roots level and a strong talent pathway in place for young women, through our alliance with the Eastern Ranges Youth Girls Academy and Box Hill women's side, we are committed to being part of the expanded AFLW competition in 2019."

AFLW players drafted from the Eastern Ranges include Charlotte Wilson, Laura McLelland and Serena Gibbs. AFLW players drafted from the former VWFL Eastern Devils team include Jaimee Lambert, Hannah Scott, Sarah D'Arcy, Katherine Smith, Pepa Randall, Rebecca Privitelli and Sophie Casey.

July 2017
A team of Hawthorn representatives attend AFL House to put forward their case as to why the Hawks deserve a licence in the AFL women's competition.

Hawthorn's submission outlined the financial strength of the club and the power of its vast and engaged audience across three key areas: Melbourne and Victoria’s East, Tasmania and Katherine. They proposed to play home games at Ikon Park as well as in Launceston and Gippsland.

September 2017
Bid for licence rejected. Disapproving of the AFL's decision, the club released a statement: "With the largest number of female members in the league and the experience of building a VFLW team from the ground up, we demonstrated our ability to create an AFLW team that could hit the ground running."

October 2017
The AFL's first female chief executive, Tracey Gaudry, is reportedly sacked by Hawthorn after just five months in the role. The club refutes such reports, saying she stood down for personal reasons. One of Gaudry's priorities was to secure the Hawks an AFL Women's licence.

February 2018
Hawthorn President Jeff Kennett voices his concerns surrounding the amount of injuries in the women's league. "I was disappointed (initially) that the AFL didn't give us the opportunity to have a team," Kennett told SEN's Whateley. "I am quite happy that we don't, right now, have a team."

"I think we have a responsibility, those who administer the game, to do whatever we can to take on board the OH&S considerations. The discussions I have been having over last season and this season, there are a lot of people who share my concern," he said. "I am concerned about the level of injuries in this new game as it is played, and I make no apology for that whatsoever."

May 2018
Kennett calls on the AFL to hand all clubs an AFLW licence by the 2020 season. "I want to make sure that those clubs that do not have a women's team in the AFLW, are able to have a team in that competition in the year 2020," Kennett told SEN Breakfast. "At the moment there's a few of us who have not been given a year and I think that's discriminatory against certain clubs. I also think it's discriminatory against the girls that we have playing for us in the VFL(W)."

Kennett says the AFL is hesitant to expand the competition too quickly for fear of diluting the talent pool, but said that the continued growth of the sport at all levels would likely negate such an issue. "We've had very good discussions with Richard Goyder, we've also had very good discussions with Gil McLachlan about bringing [licences by 2020] about," the former Victorian Premier said.

September 2018
Hawthorn defeat Geelong in the VFLW grand final by 13 points. Chantella Perera was adjudged best on ground and would be drafted by the West Coast Eagles for the 2020 season. Other players from the premiership team drafted to AFLW clubs in the following years included Mikala Cann, Jayde Van Dyk, Rosie Dillon, Julia Crockett-Grills, Tahni Nestor, Sarah Perkins and Tamara Luke.

December 2019
Kennett, at the club AGM, once again vocalises his disappointment about Hawthorn's exclusion from the league: "I find it discriminatory that we have not been given the opportunity to be included in the AFLW thus far."

May 2020
The Hawks re-affirm their desire to join the competition as early as 2021. Chief executive Justin Reeves said entering the AFLW by 2023 at the latest was "non-negotiable".

"Hawthorn remains committed to securing a licence in the AFLW competition. We have not wavered on this in our ongoing discussions with the AFL and we continue to press the AFL for earlier entry for Hawthorn to field an AFLW team," Reeves told The Age.

"We will continue to advocate this point with the AFL, but we want it [to] be incredibly clear to our supporters and members that we remain committed to fielding a team in the AFLW and would like to do so as soon as possible. We have not taken a backwards step with regards to this."

Reeves also said Hawthorn's good financial position and their strong VFLW program would see the Hawks be a "strong, unassisted" addition to the AFLW. "This program will ensure we can hit the ground running," he said.

November 2020
Announced that all positions within its VFLW coaching structure will be held by women.

Federal Government announces a $15 million investment into the Kennedy Community Centre in Dingley Village. The Government's contribution will support Hawthorn's own investment into the project which will be in excess of $30 million.

"The AFLW and community oval and pavilion will become the home ground of Hawthorn’s future AFLW team, with the club continuing to lobby the AFL for entry into the competition in 2022. The pavilion will span three levels, with over 500 seats, community and elite changerooms, a function centre, flexible education spaces and broadcast facilities."


SYDNEY SWANS

June 2017

Did not bid for a licence, but wrote a letter to the AFL indicating their commitment to fielding an AFLW team in the future.

"We've written to the AFL to say that our facilities and a ground in the eastern suburbs won't be ready for 2019, but we do want to apply for a licence, and we're hopeful we will be in a place to do that from 2020 – we think that we can achieve our new facilities and ground in that timeframe," Sydney Swans CEO and Managing Director Andrew Ireland said.

"We're really keen to have a licence and a facility is the only thing that's stopping us. Our Youth Girls Academy will also assist as we believe the best way to build a really strong AFLW team is to take it from grassroots right through. We're hoping it all dovetails together with the Academy operating for girls and an application for an AFLW licence from 2020 onwards."

July 2017
Chief executive-in-waiting Tom Harley declares that establishing a Sydney women's AFL team stands as his No.1 priority when he takes over the reins in 2018.

April 2019
The Federal Government commits $15 million funding to the new Sydney Swans HQ and Community Centre: "The $55 million project to transform the Royal Hall of Industries at Moore Park will deliver dedicated facilities for a Sydney Swans AFLW team, a new home for the NSW Swifts netball team, as well as allowing for the expansion of the QBE Sydney Swans Academy youth girls and boy programs to more than 1,000 participants."

May 2019
Club welcomes a proposed upgrade to iconic Inner West venue Henson Park, for which Federal Member for Grayndler Anthony Albanese MP announces that an incoming Federal Labor Government would invest $5 million. The upgrade also includes construction of female change rooms, which would enable Henson Park to host matches for a future Sydney Swans AFLW team.

It's already a key training venue for the QBE Sydney Swans Academy, and it has hosted NEAFL and pre-season AFL matches. The proposed upgrade would be part of a unique ground-sharing arrangement between AFL NSW/ACT and the Newtown Jets rugby league club.

April 2020
Plans for a new $70 million headquarters put on hold because of the financial impact of the coronavirus outbreak. "The club has exited the lease agreement for now but is committed to reigniting the project post the pandemic," the Swans said in a statement. "We look forward to realising our aspiration to build the Sydney Swans HQ and Community Centre in the future."

June 2020
Resumption of the QBE Sydney Swans Academy programs marks a key stage in the development pathway of the Under 15 Youth Girls squad. "Following the Benchmark training period, a squad of approximately 40 players will form the QBE Sydney Swans Academy's Top-End Youth Girls program, which is designed for players who have the requisite skill, athleticism and desire to become elite footballers in the AFLW competition."

January 2021
Harley says a Sydney Swans AFLW team remains a priority for the club, but it's difficult to put a timeline on entry into the competition.

"When the licenses were first established a few years ago (and then the expansion that's followed since), the club haven't been in a position to field a team, primarily based around facilities," Harley said.

"It's been well documented that one of the significant causalities of COVID-19 was our plans for a new facility at the Royal Hall of Industries. We are working feverishly to get that back on board and satisfy our facility challenges – that is a primary concern for us and that's one of the key planks for our entry in the AFLW."
 
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So now that we're all up to speed, let us cut to the chase. 2023: Port, Bombers and Hawks come on down. 202-whatever: Swans join when they're good and ready.

Before getting into my reasoning for the above, I should say that Hawthorn's attitude towards the AFL Women's competition has indeed been disgraceful. Not just Kennett (who didn't even hold a position at the club when they originally turned their noses up at the league) and his hypocrisy, but also:
  • the obvious set-up-to-fail mistreatment of Tracey Gaudry
  • repeating the same cynical stunt with Bec Goddard which will likely also end in tears
  • blatantly lying in their pitch for a licence
  • club officials passing public comment on AFLW operational decisions of several other clubs
  • the entitled demands made by Justin Reeves

Nevertheless, the sooner Hawthorn and Essendon are added, the sooner the league can correct some of its most glaring issues. Although there is a clear gap in on-field strength between most of the inaugural clubs and five of the expansion teams, it doesn't have to be that way. As I've pointed out several times already this year: 14 teams or 2 teams, the talent still has to be spread evenly.

In fact, growing from 10 to 14 teams has actually stopped Geelong from falling further behind. Think about it: In a ten-team league, Georgia Patrikios would be playing for the Demons, whose midfield is already among the AFLW's best. In a ten-team league, the Cats wouldn't even have winnable games against the Suns or Eagles on the calendar this year.

If all the Vic metro talent is fairly* split up across 9 (rather than 7) Melbourne-based teams, we will see Geelong (who almost exclusively draft players from Falcons/Rebels territory) catch up quickly in the list competitiveness department. Some will say that going from 8 to 10 Vic teams will diminish the quality of football. But, remember, people said that about the other expansion phases. They were wrong. And that's not just my opinion, it's clearly the general sentiment of fans and media that da standard of AFLW has improved every year.


On the matter of Port Adelaide, check the tape: I'm not one of the hysterical types who immediately jumped up and down for the inclusion of a second SA team after the Crows stormed to a second premiership. And though I've been pretty sure for a while that Chloe Scheer is a generational talent approximate to that of Erin Phillips (which I'm also pretty sure doesn't require a great deal of perceptiveness to figure out) the real indication to me that SA is ready for a second team is the diamond-in-the-rough discoveries.

Even in 2015, after Gill McLachlan had signalled the start of the league could be pushed forward from its initial 2020 launch date, the talk was "up to six clubs could field women's teams by 2017". That was considered the aggressive strategy, rather than the conservative approach, and it would have still almost certainly led to a now-star like Anne Hatchard being lost to the elite level of the game. The reality is that a professional environment is the best way to maximise the potential of raw talent. There are currently 17 clubs in the world capable of providing that service, and so anything short of 17 women's teams means the production of great players isn't as high as it plausibly could be.


And that leads me to the question of the Sydney Swans. If New South Wales is going to produce less young talent than South Australia over the next five years, it won't be by much, and the results at U18 level support this. The difficulty for the Swans, as it has been for the Giants, will be finding readymade upper-echelon players in that 24-30yo age bracket, but we've already seen artificial solutions work in the men's competition which will undoubtedly be repurposed for AFLW. Therefore, the need to introduce a second NSW isn't as urgent, but I don't see the point in Sydney having to wait any longer than what their facilities dictate.


*in my next post, I will explain what the league should do to ensure the talent is better distributed across Melbourne as well as in SA, WA and QLD.
 

Kchamp

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In the past, new expansion teams have gutted rival clubs by poaching their talent. The clubs that lost their talent were poorly compensated by the AFL. I hope they have learned from their mistakes. But I bet they stick to the same formula.

Despite that, it looks possible to bring in two more Victorian teams within the next two seasons. However, they would have to soak up every inch of AFLW Victorian talent playing interstate. Since Hawthorn has a relationship with Tasmania, that also helps. There are a few Tassis girls that have made the trip to Victoria to play in the VFLW with the TSLW dispanding. Names like Jessie Williams, Marla Neal, and former TSLW B&F winner Sarah Skinner, are just a few players who are shinning early this year.

Port Adelaide seems the most logical choice for an expansion team. They have a great SANFLW program where players all over the country make the trip just to compete in a short season. Some might see South Australia's AFLW academy program as a weakness (Only 7 girls from SA have been selected to participate in the AFLW academies since 2017). But one could also argue, the mature talent of SANFLW is more than enough to fuel a team like Port Adelaide.

Sydney Swans AFLW appears impossible. There is barely enough local talent in Sydney to have a GWS team. And GWS have missed out on a couple of NSW/ACT u18 All Australians in recent years, some in their own academies (Angela Prftis, Jordyn Jolliffe, Brianna Tarrant). The state leagues that NSW/ACT have, are not easy to watch and promoted poorly. Before Sydney gets a team, perhaps they should have representational matches with Tasmania and the Northern Territory.
 
In the past, new expansion teams have gutted rival clubs by poaching their talent.
It's amazing that anybody would still try to peddle such nonsense. Seen the ladder lately?

By the way, the talent doesn't belong to the clubs and never has. The AFL hold the player contracts and write the cheques, hence they can do/allow anything from a playing list perspective in the name of equalisation measures as they see fit.

I hope they have learned from their mistakes.
Clearly the big mistake was listening to the existing clubs who acted like losing a few players would permanently scar them.

Sydney Swans AFLW appears impossible.
I'm willing to bet anything you'll be proven wrong about that.
 
Nov 7, 2017
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It’s so easy to say when your a North supporter. Collingwood the Western Bulldogs and Brisbane had to start from scratch. They got screwed the AFL offered them fu** all compensation so I don’t know what your on about. As for Sydney good luck with that one.


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I'm far from a fan of how expansion was dealt with in relation to North and Geelong, but comparatively Brisbane was gutted far more than Dogs or Pies and now, after what, 2 years? all 3 of those clubs are in a better spot than Geelong at least, and some would argue you'd take the Dogs list over Norths as it stands. Even if new clubs coming in had the same rights to get opposition players I don't think they would go that hard with the quality of youth in NAB League and VFLW being far better now
 
Nov 7, 2017
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Port Adelaide needs to happen full stop, Adelaide have a genuine monopoly on arguably the best Women's footy comp outside of the AFLW (VFLW only surpasses it when AFLW isn't on) and the amount of U18s coming through that are going to be walk up starters for Adelaide is crazy, and if they aren't that's even scarier.
I've had this discussion with a few people, I think bringing in 1 victorian team and Power for 2023 (so gettting picks in the 2022 draft) should happen, given the strength of the draft class AND the top end of the state leagues. You could argue that bringing both Bombers and Hawks in would work, but I'm not a fan of weekly byes and I reckon you'd be stretching the talent a bit too thin with it
 
It’s so easy to say when your a North supporter.
Having the best interests of the league in mind, rather than just one club, is probably the reason I was able to correctly forecast the relative strength of the expansion teams.

Almost everybody else made wildly inaccurate predictions about North's "super team", Brisbane's "world of pain", and Geelong's "advantage" (no, wait, "massive advantage"). And now a lot of those biased people think their opinion on the next phase of expansion is credible (though some have learned to shut up, to be fair).

Collingwood the Western Bulldogs and Brisbane had to start from scratch. They got screwed the AFL offered them fu** all compensation so I don’t know what your on about.
Their compensation was getting to join the league before 10 other teams. If you don't think that has proven itself to be the true advantage, you should take a really long hard photo of yourself in the mirror.

I reckon you'd be stretching the talent a bit too thin with it
On what grounds? At every turn it's been revealed that the talent pool is deeper, and the quality of football is improving faster, than what anybody initially anticipated.

but I'm not a fan of weekly byes
I think the AFL would be a fan of getting all 3 of Port, Ess and Haw into the comp but only having to find one extra timeslot per week. Don't think it's a major sticking point either way though.
 
Nov 7, 2017
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On what grounds? At every turn it's been revealed that the talent pool is deeper, and the quality of football is improving faster, than what anybody initially anticipated.
I still think the gap between the A graders and the rest is too much currently, I'd wait until we're seeing that close, which shouldn't be too long given the 2018/2019 drafted girls in particular will be hitting their physical peak soon, and the top end coming through the draft will be there abouts for the next couple of years
 
I'm far from a fan of how expansion was dealt with in relation to North and Geelong, but comparatively Brisbane was gutted far more than Dogs or Pies and now, after what, 2 years? all 3 of those clubs are in a better spot than Geelong at least, and some would argue you'd take the Dogs list over Norths as it stands. Even if new clubs coming in had the same rights to get opposition players I don't think they would go that hard with the quality of youth in NAB League and VFLW being far better now

Didn’t Geelong choose to go down the local and draft route? Unlike North and Richmond. Geelong were always going to take a lot longer, there’s only a hand few games to develop at AFLW level.

Why should Dogs, Pies and Brisbane be smashed again and thrown some picks just because they had fortuine in turning it around (or even staying decent) . Draft is still a draft and not garenteed.

A lot of our supporters had their interest diminished when they lost their key players. Imagine if it was Blackburn next. lol.
 
I still think the gap between the A graders and the rest is too much currently, I'd wait until we're seeing that close, which shouldn't be too long given the 2018/2019 drafted girls in particular will be hitting their physical peak soon, and the top end coming through the draft will be there abouts for the next couple of years
That only sounds like an issue if Essendon and Hawthorn are allowed/forced to irresponsibly load up on a disproportionate amount of young players (and older players yet to prove themselves at the level).

Why should Dogs, Pies and Brisbane be smashed again and thrown some picks just because they had fortuine in turning it around (or even staying decent) . Draft is still a draft and not garenteed.

A lot of our supporters had their interest diminished when they lost their key players. Imagine if it was Blackburn next. lol.
It's not about the Western Bulldogs, nor Ellie Blackburn. It's about "achieving an even and well matched" league, as the AFL puts it.

The teams that got smashed are Gold Coast, Geelong, West Coast, Richmond and St Kilda. Smashed by the greed of the 8 inaugural clubs. Disingenuous to claim otherwise, it's not luck that the ladder is how it is.
 
That only sounds like an issue if Essendon and Hawthorn are allowed/forced to irresponsibly load up on a disproportionate amount of young players (and older players yet to prove themselves at the level).


It's not about the Western Bulldogs, nor Ellie Blackburn. It's about "achieving an even and well matched" league, as the AFL puts it.

The teams that got smashed are Gold Coast, Geelong, West Coast, Richmond and St Kilda. Smashed by the greed of the 8 inaugural clubs. Disingenuous to claim otherwise, it's not luck that the ladder is how it is.

Agree, it's not about us. But it should be even across the board. Not the same 3 clubs absolute top players just because they did the work to be involved in the start. It should include everyone. It's not like we weren't bottom for multiple seasons. Furthermore, Gold Coast had a off year full of travel after round 1 when most other teams stayed put and Richmond got plenty of talent in. The other two choose the slower path.
 
Agree, it's not about us. But it should be even across the board. Not the same 3 clubs absolute top players just because they did the work to be involved in the start. It should include everyone.
We shouldn't forget how it ended up that some teams lost more quality than other teams though. It's because they all turned down the AFL's proposal which ensured player movement would have been even across the board.

I think I have come up with an even better solution than the AFL's rejected proposal, and I'm about to post it in here soon.
 
This is my solution for what needs to be done to have a reasonably even 17-team competition in 2023.

FREE AGENCY
All players born before 1 Jan 1996 can choose to stay at their club or go to Port Adelaide/Essendon/Hawthorn as free-agent expansion signings. Via this mechanism, the new expansion teams can sign 3 players each, the Adelaide Crows can lose up to 2 players and the seven existing Melbourne-based teams can lose one player each.

No compensation should be given, hence the "free" part of free agency.


MANDATORY DELISTING AND RE-DRAFT

Port Adelaide

Adelaide-listed players born after 31 Dec 1995 are split into two groups by Port’s football department. For example…

Group 1: Marinoff, S.Allan, Ponter, Gore, Button, Martin, McKinnon, Biddell, Crows 2021 1st pick
Group 2: Hatchard, Scheer, Jones, Charlton, Gould, Woodland, Munyard, Newman, Crows 2021 2nd pick

Adelaide then choose which one of the groups they get to keep, and the other players are effectively delisted and drafted to Port Adelaide. Crows officials and supporters will complain, throwing around scary words like "raided", but the reality is that's what needs to be done to ensure the SA talent is spread evenly across the two teams.

Essendon
A similar process should be followed in Essendon's case, with slight alterations. The Bombers take 16 Carlton players born after 31 Dec 1995 and split
them into four groups of four. Carlton then chooses the 3 groups they keep, the other group goes to Essendon. The Bombers do the same for the Western Bulldogs and North Melbourne players too.

Hawthorn
Hawthorn would then do the same for Melbourne and Collingwood players. However, for Richmond (and St Kilda), the Hawks would divide the 16 players into 8 pairs. The Tigers (and Saints) would choose the 7 pairs they get to keep, and Hawthorn gets the other pair. This discrepancy is to correct for Richmond's (and St Kilda's) list not being as strong as the other Melbourne-based clubs, a result of the previous expansion screw-up.

West Coast
The re-draft shouldn't just stop there. The AFL needs to correct the uneven spread of talent in other states too. West Coast should also take 4 players from Fremantle via the same method. The fact that we see role players like Hayley Miller and Stephanie Cain, two very similar footballers with different hair, on one team while the cross-town rival is crying out for more experienced talent of their ilk is shameful.

Gold Coast
The Gold Coast Suns also need to take a minimum of 4 more decent players from the Brisbane Lions in order to better spread the Queensland talent, however this is more difficult to justify because of geographical factors. It's true that some players are already forced to move cities to play AFLW; the question is to what degree this can be pushed. I would suggest certain Brisbane players can gain an exemption from this re-draft if the AFL deems they have a good enough (probably work-related) reason.

Geelong
Ideally, the better spread of talent across all other teams will help Geelong catch up to the field. But the Cats feel the need to do things like trade away pick no.5 in the draft for basically nothing in return, just because Vic Metro players want to play for a Melbourne-based club. I don't like that and the AFL should still make a priority of disincentivising it (topic for another thread though).


RATIONALE

Is it fair to force players to move clubs?

Yes! We have things like a standard draft and a salary cap for a reason. And those measures are just for addressing normal imbalances in team competitiveness. The current AFLW situation is very abnormal, so much more needs to be done to ensure all expansion teams are set up on an even playing field.

If the rules (which allow extraordinary measures to be taken in the name of equalisation) aren't written for this situation, then what are they written for?

Why should players born before 1996 be exempt from the re-draft?
For starters: there's an optics issue, particularly around gender equality, which the AFL would be concerned with. Forcing older semi-professional female players to move clubs is not a good look when you have extremely well-paid 28-year-olds in the men's competition picking and choosing where they play.

Secondly, the older players are obviously the leaders who essentially define a team's identity. The idea is to setup the expansion teams as solidly as possible without disturbing the fabric of existing teams, hence the need to limit the movement of those particular players.

Should there be other players exempt from the re-draft?
Provisions should also be made which account for exceptional draft rules that already exist, such as Tasmanian-based players and father-daughter selections. But I'm just trying to communicate the core concept for now.

What about the AFL's rejected points system?
My system is better. The biggest problem with the AFL's proposal was that the quality of each player would be judged by the All-Australian selection panel. Way too much power for people who aren't even capable of satisfactorily performing their easier primary role.

In my club-by-club delisting/re-drafting process, that untrustworthy intermediate third-party is removed. It gives the football departments of each club greater control of their destiny, and it still asks clubs (whether existing or expansion) to make competent list management decisions.

Why not 2022?
In many ways I think it would be much better to add Port, Essendon and Hawthorn next year. But I don't see it on the cards yet because 1) the final year of the CBA would have to be renegotiated (and some playing contracts might have to be torn up); and 2) 2021 would have to play out in a stable fashion--despite our hopes, it's too early to tell if that's going to happen.
 
Apr 29, 2008
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Port Adelaide
Adelaide-listed players born after 31 Dec 1995 are split into two groups by Port’s football department. For example…

Group 1: Marinoff, S.Allan, Ponter, Gore, Button, Martin, McKinnon, Biddell, Crows 2021 1st pick
Group 2: Hatchard, Scheer, Jones, Charlton, Gould, Woodland, Munyard, Newman, Crows 2021 2nd pick

Adelaide then choose which one of the groups they get to keep, and the other players are effectively delisted and drafted to Port Adelaide. Crows officials and supporters will complain, throwing around scary words like "raided", but the reality is that's what needs to be done to ensure the SA talent is spread evenly across the two teams.

Ouch :(

I agree with what you're saying, but damn. That hurts to read :(

Perhaps the Crows can nominate one or two untouchable players? :(
 
Ouch :(

I agree with what you're saying, but damn. That hurts to read :(

Perhaps the Crows can nominate one or two untouchable players? :(
With the idea being to spread the SA talent as evenly as possible, a strong case could therefore be mounted that Ponter should be exempt from the re-draft. But it quickly gets away from the core premise with more exceptions than that.

It's an easier sell for the players (not that it necessarily has to be 'sold') to know that, while they may be forced to switch clubs, there is strength in numbers. There would be a solid assurance of not going to a typical cellar-dwelling expansion team when the talent is split as evenly as possible.

If that point is compromised, the act of forcing any players to move clubs loses its merit. At which point it would just be fairer for the AFL to say to Port and co. "you're just going to have to do the best with the rules that West Coast etc had to deal with".
 
fu** Port I'm happy with Adelaide having a monopoly on SA talent
Sounds like there might be an intense rivalry between the two clubs. Surely something that petty would never enter into the AFL's decision-making though...

Plus, admit it, deep down you really want to see the prophesised snake v mongoose battle of the unstoppable force that is Erin Phillips meeting the immovable object that is Chelsea Randall.
 
Sometimes it feels like the football gods conjure a gift with your humble mortal being in mind.

Interesting result from the weekend:




The following article, about one typical club in Sydney, was published 40 minutes after I started this thread last week:
Lindy Jones, President of the St Ives Football Club in the AFL Sydney Juniors Competition, firmly believes elite-level representation has encouraged women to play AFL at the community level.

"The AFL Women's competition has played a significant role in contributing to an outstanding increase in football participation," she said. "Our girls are watching the AFLW on TV and it's giving them something to aspire to."

Establishing their first female side in 2016, St Ives now have over 100 girls participating in their female programs, ranging from the Under 10's competition to the Under 18's.
Given the meteoric rise of female participation throughout the region, Jones is hoping the trend will continue into the future.

"I'd like to think in five years our female program would be equal with the men's competition in terms of participation," she said. "I don’t think it'll even take that long."
For a while now I've said that AFL clubs can't afford to not have their own elite women's teams. Whether it's something with immediate benefits like government funding, or something with a long-term payoff like the growth and diversification of a supporter base, the ramifications are immense.

This point, converging with John Longmire's quote about NSW footy ("If you don't invest, it will cost you more"), along with participation numbers and pathway programs in Sydney, adds up to the strong indication that a Swans AFLW team is inevitable rather than impossible.

They may well be the 18th team to jump on board, but it will nevertheless happen sooner rather than later.
 
Mar 2, 2011
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I'm wondering if there is any sort of a workaround that could be found for Sydney's facility issue? I think it would be great if Sydney could be the next team in. It would accelerate the junior pathway development for Sydney/GWS and while that pathway is catching up I think you'd get some good players from South Australia and Victoria moving to play for Sydney if that team comes in before Port/Essendon/Hawthorn.
 
They may hold off expanding the AFLW until Tassie gets their own AFL/AFLW teams, either as a 19th franchise or the relocation of Hawthorn/St. Kilda.
 
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