2nds Port Adelaide vs Centrals - Round 6 @ Alberton

Interstater

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In: Frampton, Jonas, Farrell
Out: S Gray, Bonner, Butters

Garner for Bonner if Jonas is injured
Motlop for Ebert if Ebert is injured

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jack_black16

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My main concern is ******ing ruck development through lack of AFL opportunity, when the guys at lower level have so much more upside than 31yo Ryder and ‘just ok’ Lycett
How do you think 'just ok' Lycett would go at sanfl level? He would absolutely dominate. Dropping him or Ryder after one poor week would be stupid.
 

Coobk001

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Ruck depth should hopefully lead to something ok at the trade table as well
Yep, this is it. Right now recruiters around the country are talking about Ladhams, and aware of our possibly impending elite trio of Lycett, Ladhams and Hayes, and likely looking at trading for the one that ends up on the outer.

We're also still not sure about Hayes other knee either, we may find out he's a bit injury prone over time, so good to have someone else well and truly rising along side him.
 

Coobk001

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How do you think 'just ok' Lycett would go at sanfl level? He would absolutely dominate. Dropping him or Ryder after one poor week would be stupid.
Yep, he may not have 27 possessions every week, but undoubtedly he'd have 50-60 hitouts every week and probably take even more marks.

Ladhams is doing fantastic stuff, but he isn't ahead of Lycett just yet.


The also unmentioned thing is that having quality like Lycett for Ladhams to train against has probably also helped him develop a LOT quicker this year.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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My main concern is ******ing ruck development through lack of AFL opportunity, when the guys at lower level have so much more upside than 31yo Ryder and ‘just ok’ Lycett
How do you think 'just ok' Lycett would go at sanfl level? He would absolutely dominate. Dropping him or Ryder after one poor week would be stupid.
Why would we care how Lycett would go at sanfl level? At AFL level we already know what we're going to get from him, which is `just ok'. Thats his entire career.

Its weird how we're talking about how ruck depth is great but you reckon dropping Ryder or Lycett after a bad week (or more) is bad.
 

JUSTWORK

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How do you think 'just ok' Lycett would go at sanfl level? He would absolutely dominate. Dropping him or Ryder after one poor week would be stupid.
Yep, its a massive step up from Rucking against SANFL players and AFL ruckman, particularly Grundy who Lycett/Ryder were competing against.

Ladhams is young and developing nicely, should an opportunity arise through injury or suspension the spot is definitely his for the taking, deserves it. But he isn't forcing either of those two out after a poor game against Grundy.

If that opportunity doesn't come this year, another year and a few Kgs added wont do his development any harm. That said, hope he gets rewarded with a taste this year. Time for a contract extension for the Kid.
 
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VineValerian

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Bonner out for Jonas - if Jonas not ready, then Garner. Need mongrel in the back half.
Farrell in for Butters - give Zac a week off after 7 straight games of AFL. Then straight back in the side.
Frampton in for ........... hmmm, dunno. Have to think that one through, but having him in allows Marshall, Hoff, etc more freedom.
 

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Forzaport

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I definitely felt he was our 2nd best future option behind Hayes, and thought he had the potential to be AFL calibre if he started sticking his marks, as his end to last year was 1st class.

But no one could've predicted the sheer numbers Ladhams is picking up. He still isn't totally dominant in the actual ruck contest against the best SANFL rucks, but he is generally winning or breaking even at worst and then dominating in every aspect. In reality his figures are beyond phenomenal and he should be every bit a Magarey Medal contender.
Hayes! He was the one I was missing. Another ruck with an unknown future heading into 2019.
 

ozph1870

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Ruck depth should hopefully lead to something ok at the trade table as well
Nope, we need ladhams and Hayes for the future, we need to keep developing Billy as a forward. We have no rucks to trade out unless it's the older two, and that won't happen.
 

jack_black16

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Why would we care how Lycett would go at sanfl level? At AFL level we already know what we're going to get from him, which is `just ok'. Thats his entire career.

Its weird how we're talking about how ruck depth is great but you reckon dropping Ryder or Lycett after a bad week (or more) is bad.
The point is that we could be a lot worse off with Ladhams in the side instead of Lycett. Also getting dropped after one below par game isn't the way any team should operate. Ladhams playing the majority of the year in the sanfl would be better for his development than hardly touching it at afl level.

Lycett was being labelled recruit of the year a couple of weeks ago. He is more than an ok player.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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My main concern is ******ing ruck development through lack of AFL opportunity, when the guys at lower level have so much more upside than 31yo Ryder and ‘just ok’ Lycett
How do you think 'just ok' Lycett would go at sanfl level? He would absolutely dominate. Dropping him or Ryder after one poor week would be stupid.
Why would we care how Lycett would go at sanfl level? At AFL level we already know what we're going to get from him, which is `just ok'. Thats his entire career.

Its weird how we're talking about how ruck depth is great but you reckon dropping Ryder or Lycett after a bad week (or more) is bad.
The point is that we could be a lot worse off with Ladhams in the side instead of Lycett. Also getting dropped after one below par game isn't the way any team should operate. Ladhams playing the majority of the year in the sanfl would be better for his development than hardly touching it at afl level.

Lycett was being labelled recruit of the year a couple of weeks ago. He is more than an ok player.
You keep changing your point. You started by objecting to Ladhams replacing either Lycett or Ryder, are you conceding that Ryder is droppable now?

Your assumptions that Lycett would blitz at SANFL level but that Ladhams would hardly touch the ball at AFL level are extreme and based on nothing.

Repeat: My main concern is our ruck development being hindered by lack of AFL development. Ryder was excellent but its hard to say he's a presence on the field these days. Lycett has played most of his career as a backup ruck for a reason - he's ok, he's fit enough to play AFL, but thats it.

We need better, we might have better, but we stand to burn it all if we don't drop ruckmen in the AFL side when they hit indifferent form.
 

jack_black16

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You keep changing your point. You started by objecting to Ladhams replacing either Lycett or Ryder, are you conceding that Ryder is droppable now?

Your assumptions that Lycett would blitz at SANFL level but that Ladhams would hardly touch the ball at AFL level are extreme and based on nothing.

Repeat: My main concern is our ruck development being hindered by lack of AFL development. Ryder was excellent but its hard to say he's a presence on the field these days. Lycett has played most of his career as a backup ruck for a reason - he's ok, he's fit enough to play AFL, but thats it.

We need better, we might have better, but we stand to burn it all if we don't drop ruckmen in the AFL side when they hit indifferent form.
First off, where did concede Ryder is droppable. Your pulling s**t out of thin air.

My assumptions are based on plenty of players being a class above at Sanfl level but not cutting it at AFL level. Ruckman especially take years to develop and build the required strength to compete.

Does one below par game equal indifferent form and warrant being dropped? Port won't drop a $500k/year free agent after one game and nor should they. Don't be a numbskull.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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First off, where did concede Ryder is droppable.
Presumably by only using Lycett as your counterargument to me saying we need to drop ruckmen in ordinary form.

Your pulling **** out of thin air.
No, thats where you got your presumption that Ladhams would hardly touch the ball at AFL level.

Does one below par game equal indifferent form and warrant being dropped? Port won't drop a $500k/year free agent after one game and nor should they.
And what about 31 year old Ryder not even getting 10 touches a game this year? Or is he not droppable? Please make up your mind on this.

And if even Ryder isn't droppable in indifferent form, we get back to my original post that you apparently disliked:
My main concern is ******ing ruck development through lack of AFL opportunity, when the guys at lower level have so much more upside than 31yo Ryder and ‘just ok’ Lycett
 

PJ Power

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Ruck depth should hopefully lead to something ok at the trade table as well
I agree, Macca, but I’m holding out hope that Hayes and Ladhams can both be elite (as Lade and Primus were), and that both will be regular goal-kickers when resting forward.

That then means that we have to find that one big natural forward to be the No.1 KPF, with Marshall and Ladhams/Hayes working around them.

I don’t want to lose Hayes or Ladhams any time soon.
 

jack_black16

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Presumably by only using Lycett as your counterargument to me saying we need to drop ruckmen in ordinary form.

No, thats where you got your presumption that Ladhams would hardly touch the ball at AFL level.

And what about 31 year old Ryder not even getting 10 touches a game this year? Or is he not droppable? Please make up your mind on this.

And if even Ryder isn't droppable in indifferent form, we get back to my original post that you apparently disliked:
I don't think Ryders form has been good but it hasn't reached being dropped level imo. He has the talent and runs on the board to remain in the team.

Being stuck in the sanfl a little longer is hardly going to damage a 21 yr old ruckmans development.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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I don't think Ryders form has been good but it hasn't reached being dropped level imo. He has the talent and runs on the board to remain in the team.
Runs on the board need to run out a lot faster when the player is over 30, and talent isn't getting us what it used to.

Being stuck in the sanfl a little longer is hardly going to damage a 21 yr old ruckmans development.
Being dropped when in poor form isn't going damage Ryder's development either. If anything it might do him good to get touch at SANFL level.
 

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