Review Port defeat Carlton - Rd 5, 2021

[backtozero]

Woodcock's been overlooked a bit i reckon. 18 touches, a goal and 6 score involvements is a nice little return. 3 tackles inside 50 (1 more than anyone else) is also great to see. Looking forward to seeing what he can do over the next couple of weeks.

 

[glitch01]

Woodcock's been overlooked a bit i reckon. 18 touches, a goal and 6 score involvements is a nice little return. 3 tackles inside 50 (1 more than anyone else) is also great to see. Looking forward to seeing what he can do over the next couple of weeks.

Other thing I liked about Woodcock was the fact he seemed to not be throwing the head back and looking for frees which he did a few times last season.
Looks a handy player when he just plays the ball and backs himself.

 

[Janey]

Other thing I liked about Woodcock was the fact he seemed to not be throwing the head back and looking for frees which he did a few times last season.
Looks a handy player when he just plays the ball and backs himself.

Looks to have matured physically and in his whole attitude, since last season.

 

[It Just Is]

Woodcock's been overlooked a bit i reckon. 18 touches, a goal and 6 score involvements is a nice little return. 3 tackles inside 50 (1 more than anyone else) is also great to see. Looking forward to seeing what he can do over the next couple of weeks.

It was the Butters-lite performance you’d hope for

 

[Bars]

The media and AFL world spending all week being shocked that we beat Carlton is a bit baffling.

 

[Marmozet]

Other thing I liked about Woodcock was the fact he seemed to not be throwing the head back and looking for frees which he did a few times last season.
Looks a handy player when he just plays the ball and backs himself.

He might’ve figured out that that s**t doesn’t get rewarded if you’re playing for Port Adelaide

 

[tangolikelama]

We seem to have absolutely ruined the Carlton Football Club lmao

 

[Stryke]

We seem to have absolutely ruined the Carlton Football Club lmao

Good.

 

[1954]

I saw this during the game and thought of Craig Bradley.
Can't wait to see more of it.

Different comp of course but that run reminded me of the Irish lad we had on the list about 4 seasons back who used to do that regularly in games for the Maggies, but probably ran 20 to 30 metres further in the process.
He was a real excitement machine who from memory either didn't return to the club after going home at the end of his first season, or went home very early in the second due to a family illness.

 

[Imhotep]

I saw this during the game and thought of Craig Bradley.
Can't wait to see more of it.

The funny thing about this was the centre clearance directly before this one looked identical, even had Ollie putting a block in for Lachie Jones who came streaming through.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Other thing I liked about Woodcock was the fact he seemed to not be throwing the head back and looking for frees which he did a few times last season.
Looks a handy player when he just plays the ball and backs himself.

I actually think there was a brief moment in the first quarter where he went to throw his head back, but caught himself before he did it and then continued playing the ball. Good to see it. No place for that s**t at the PAFC, Boyd.

 

[TeeKray]

He might’ve figured out that that sh*t doesn’t get rewarded if you’re playing for Port Adelaide

I actually don't mind the idea of our players staging for frees, it's sort of like if you can't beat 'em join 'em. But the reality of our players playing for frees is they won't get them and they're better off just staying in the contest.

 

[backtozero]

I actually don't mind the idea of our players staging for frees, it's sort of like if you can't beat 'em join 'em. But the reality of our players playing for frees is they won't get them and they're better off just staying in the contest.

You just end up like Robbie Gray who gets held constantly and never gets rewarded.

 

[Interstater]

We seem to have absolutely ruined the Carlton Football Club lmao

And next week the stories all week will be that St Kilda are in crisis.

Only one side to the story in the VFL.

 

[MrMeaner]

View attachment 1105431

I look at these and often just cannot square them with my perception of the game.

 

[Grave Danger]

I look at these and often just cannot square them with my perception of the game.

Agreed - even if they're just stats based, Ollie had a game high 32 disposals at 82% efficiency but he's way down the list. Alternatively if it's supposed to be an effectiveness measure, Ollie topped the votes in the AFLCA award.

I'll bet S. Walsh gets the 3 Brownlow votes though.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I look at these and often just cannot square them with my perception of the game.

I would like to see the algorithm used and am skeptical but it has been pretty consistent for a decade.

Use it as a guide rather than an absolute truth. But then again they use the system to rank all 600+ players who play a game during the year.

What it appears to do is hammer players if they make costly errors, ie get a negative score for a turnover, but a bigger negative if that turnover leads to an opposition goal. A player also gets a negative for a clanger and when they give away a free. I think it is time stamped as well.

Someone asked about Amon on Monday and if he is lot lower than he should be. Amon according to the ratings had a bad negative 4th quarter. If he doesn't have a negative 4th and has a quarter like his first one, relatively modest, he ends up with top 10 ranking. From the AFL app his 4th quarter disposal efficiency was 50% compared to 100%.89% and 88% in the each of the first 3 quarters, he had 3 turnovers, I think 1 ended up being a goal and gave away 1 free kick. He had 5 clangers for the game, most of those appeared to be in the last quarter as he only had 3 turnovers during the first 3 quarters and 3 in the last. Plus he had that soft attempted tackle on McKay that lead to a score, don't think it was a goal.

Gray had a bigger negative in the 4th quarter. He did drop 2 straight forward marks inside 50 which I assume generates negative points, he does that brilliant blind but probably scores minimal positive points, but the kick to Hartlett who can't run, is out wide, so a turnover is caused and he gets negative points for that. He was given a 0% disposal efficiency for the 2 kicks and 1 handball he had in the 4th quarter.

Here is an FAQ from 2013

Player ratings: frequently asked questions

How does the revolutionary new Official AFL Player Ratings system work?

www.afl.com.au

Which acts a player makes on the field contribute to his score?
Every time a player is involved in a passage of play he will have the chance to accrue points. But rather than his score being a simple tally of his possessions, marks, tackles, hit-outs, free-kicks and scores, his performance will be measured using a system called Equity Ratings. The system determines where and how a player influences a contest and whether the player's effort then results in a positive result for his team. Equity Ratings includes what coaches love to describe as "pressure acts". As a result, players are rewarded for interrupting opposition passages of play as well as setting up scores for their own team.

Players who consistently produce positive contributions are rewarded more highly than players with a high volume of stats. As an example, a 20 disposal game by Cyril Rioli where 17 disposals are positive and only one is negative can have the same impact as a 40 disposal game by Dane Swan where 25 are positive and nine are negative.

Can players lose points during games?
Yes. Players can get a negative score in a number of ways, including when they give away free-kicks and also when they turn the ball over. A turnover that results in an opposition score results in the largest negative score.

How is the player ratings system different to the scoring system used in AFL Fantasy and the Champion Data player ratings?
Whereas AFL Fantasy scores simply takes into account how many times a player receives and disposes of the ball, how many scores he registers and whether he wins or gives away free kicks, Official AFL Player Ratings take into account a whole range of other factors. These include where the player was on the field when he received the ball, whether the player was under pressure and whether his disposal advantaged his team or led to a score.

The Matter of Stats guys tried to quantify the way points are calculated last year and you can see the negative score can be harsh.

A Review of AFL Player Rating Data — Matter of Stats

The fine folk who brought us the fitzRoy R package have been diligently collecting historical AFL Player Rating data with a view to potentially including it in an upcoming version of the package, and asked me to take a look at what they have so far, which spans the period from 2012 to the end of 2

www.matterofstats.com

The Matter of Stats guys quote from this academic paper which has this page 3 of 11 in the introduction section.

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/37076/1/Manuscript-IDSPO-17-0227with_Figures.pdf

And the conclusion of the paper

Conclusion
The results from this study support the validity of the AFL Player Ratings system and its ability to objectively assess combined player performance in AF. By utilising objective outcomes as dependent variables, a more thorough understanding of how equity is used as a quantifiable measure to relate to successful performance can be achieved. To further refine the generalisability of the model produced in phase two, subsequent seasons of data could be added once they become available. Future work should focus on the continual development of improving the ratings system as new technologies become available, as well as the interpretation and application of the AFL Player Ratings system for objective performance analysis and operational decision-making.

 

[MrMeaner]

Thanks for the explanation RussellEbertHandball. From my perspective, it seems that there is a bit missing in that it doesn't seem to take account of the stage or state of the game when mistakes are made. In a lot of cases, that might be okay but in a game, like Saturday's, where it's effectively over before three-quarter time, mistakes made at the end of the game are obviously less harmful.

 

[Malibu#27]

What exactly are Cripps' weapons?

Good Marketing.

 

[Powerade 08]

Cripps used to be a great player. Whenever I watch him now he just tries to run through tackles instead of using his handball. Maybe being in a bad team for so long he feels like he has to do everything himself.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Thanks for the explanation RussellEbertHandball. From my perspective, it seems that there is a bit missing in that it doesn't seem to take account of the stage or state of the game when mistakes are made. In a lot of cases, that might be okay but in a game, like Saturday's, where it's effectively over before three-quarter time, mistakes made at the end of the game are obviously less harmful.

I know the Super Coach stuff is time stamped, so that key positive plays when the game is on the line get an extra loading. I don't know if key negative plays when the game is on the line get an extra loading. Seeing CD do both algorithms you would think the ratings algorithm is also time stamped.

Super Coach pts are also scaled so that total of the two teams ie all players, adds up to between 3,250 and 3,300. They reckon that gives a better comparison over time of a players impact on a game rather than just raw numbers.

Port Players
Super Coach ...... AFL player ratings - Port ranking position only
1. Marshall 119.... 1st 18.3
2. DBJ...... 119..... 9th 12.0
3. Lycett... 115..... 4th 15.7
4. Amon... 115..... 12th 9.5
5. Georgi.. 107...... 5th 15.1
6. Boak.... 106...... 6th 13.8
7. Aliir...... 104..... 3rd 16.4

I got the more accurate ratings points from the AFL's sats page rather than looking at graphic and guessing the decimal points.

AFL Stats - AFL.com.au

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www.afl.com.au

 

[Coobk001]

Jonas was beaten by Casboult and others in several contests where he was just lazy in positioning in the first term. It led to multiple goals. It was a diabolical first term, his 2nd term definitely improved, but his last half was way better. The fact the player ratings don't reflect this at all, for me shows their failings. They take into account stats, but not actual impact.

 

[HHHAMMERtime]

Speaking of Bergman’s game, the most impressive aspect for me wasn’t that line breaking run, but the spoil he made on the wing in what I think was the first quarter. He was probably trailing by 5 meters when the kick came that way and he made up the space to thump the ball out of bounds. The guy is seriously fast for a 190cm player and we knew this when we drafted him. It’s why we took the punt. Bloke can play anywhere and be just about anything if his improvement continues at the rate it has since he was drafted.
The big knock on him pre draft was he wasn’t finding enough ball. To get 16 touches in your 3rd game shows he’s working on it and successfully too. Scary to see what he becomes.

 

[SteppingTiger]

And next week the stories all week will be that St Kilda are in crisis.

Only one side to the story in the VFL.

Meh, I wish every game is like that one in the 90s when North were that comprehensively destroyed by teh Crows (either early season or pre-season) and they sacked Wayne Schimmelbusch the next day or two....think Pagan then became coach.

As Conan the Barbarian put it :

Conan: Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women!

 

[Janus]

The media and AFL world spending all week being shocked that we beat Carlton is a bit baffling.

It’s cause we cruised in a game where we had two of our best 22 missing in Butters and Duursma, had players like Rozee hobbled with a cork from the previous week, were playing two players under 5 games experience in Jones and Bergman (5 with 15 games or less with Drew, Woodcock and Georgiades), had to use the medical sub and went down a rotation with Hartlett.

If we had a fully fit and healthy list with Butters, Duursma and Powell-Pepper playing we would have torched them by 80 points and everyone knows it. They are a club that has gone absolutely nowhere in 26 years. Meanwhile Port looks to have nailed the Bergman and Georgiades selections which means we’ve got five best 22 players in the space of two drafts...and we haven’t even seen the likes of Williams and Mead at the level yet.

It’s a tale of great list management vs rubbish list management.