Mega Thread Port Forum 'General AFL Talk' Thread Part 11

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Schulzenfest

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I think our issue is mainly development as opposed to drafting.

We get players to a certain level of competency then they don't take the next step
Yep. Or they do take the next step but they can't sustain it.

Ollie Wines and Chad Wingard the most egregious examples. Both projected to be stars. Neither ever got any better than what they showed in their second year on our list. If anything they've gone backwards.
 

philthy05

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I think our issue is mainly development as opposed to drafting.

We get players to a certain level of competency then they don't take the next step
Yeah
As Schulz said we’ve had some even go backwards.

The one constant that has been here in that time has been the head coach.
 
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That list is wrong.

Since Robbie is still listed as 'assess', he's still on the injury list, which means we are missing Ebert (242), Gray (205), Watts (174), Hartlett (153), Wines (134), Dixon (126), Jonas (126) and Burton (55). 1215 games. 36.34%...just below Sydney.
Correct, that list ignores any and everyone listed as "test".

It's also just looking at current injury list - it is not totals missed through the year so far where I suspect we'd be even worse off.
 
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Yeah
As Schulz said we’ve had some even go backwards.

The one constant that has been here in that time has been the head coach.
Course it is. Let's absolve the players on $600000 and more a year of any responsibility at all shall we.?
Chad has already admitted he got too comfortable. Ollie is a beast, one of best hard ball extractors in the game, his disposal sucks. Why isn't that on him,?
Hinkley will be blamed for climate change next.
 

Janus

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Average Games Played is probably the only ladder where we comfortably make the eight most years under Hinkley. I can't find an update for this year, but this is last year's ranking of Average List Games Played (https://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-29/oldest-youngest-most-experienced-club-lists-compared)

Hawthorn 80.4
Collingwood 78.9
Adelaide 71.4
Richmond 70
Geelong 69.6
Sydney 69.1
Port Adelaide 68.9
West Coast 68.5

North Melbourne 65.1
Greater Western Sydney 61.2
Melbourne 59
Western Bulldogs 58.9
Fremantle 58.3
St Kilda 56.7
Carlton 56.7
Brisbane 56.6
Essendon 55.4
Gold Coast 50.2

We're in the top eight with recent premiership and grand final winning sides, with none of their results. So are we going to pretend this year is a magical exception to a prolonged lack of results, just because we have a top heavy list of guys on the decline who're literally falling apart? Its not new.
On the weekend:

West Coast 117.9 - Grand Finalist in 2015, Premiers in 2018
Hawthorn 112.9 - Premiers in 2013-2015
Collingwood 109.6 - Premiers in 2010, Grand Finalists in 2018
Geelong 108.1 - Premiers in 2011, Preliminary Finalist in 2016
Adelaide 99.5 - Preliminary Finalist in 2012, Grand Finalists in 2017
North Melbourne 96.4 - Done nothing
Melbourne 95.6 - Preliminary Finalist in 2018
Brisbane 95.4 - Done nothing
Essendon 94.0 - Done nothing
GWS 88.9 - Preliminary Finalist 2016-2018
Richmond 86.4 - Premiers in 2017, Preliminary Finalist in 2018
Port Adelaide 83.9 - Preliminary Finalist in 2014
Fremantle 82.4 - Grand Finalist in 2013, Preliminary Finalist in 2015
Sydney 81.7 - Premiers in 2012, Grand Finalists in 2014 and 2016, Preliminary Finalists in 2013
Western Bulldogs 79.9 - Premiers in 2016
Gold Coast 72.1
Carlton 71.5
St Kilda 68.0

If Dixon, Watts, Ebert, Gray, Jonas, Hartlett and Wines were playing on the weekend, and we say that Broadbent, Motlop, Burton, Clurey, Howard, Westhoff, Butters, Rozee, Duursma, Lycett, Ryder, Rockliff, Boak, Houston and Powell-Pepper were in the 22, that would be 125.5 games experience on the field. Obviously we wouldn't roll with that line up but it gives you an idea.

Even if you just added Dixon, Ebert, Gray, Jonas and Wines in place of Johnson, Farrell, Motlop, Drew and Burton this week, we'd go up to 110.7 games on average.

That's why I say not to judge this team until everyone is on the park.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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If Dixon, Watts, Ebert, Gray, Jonas, Hartlett and Wines were playing on the weekend, and we say that Broadbent, Motlop, Burton, Clurey, Howard, Westhoff, Butters, Rozee, Duursma, Lycett, Ryder, Rockliff, Boak, Houston and Powell-Pepper were in the 22, that would be 125.5 games experience on the field. Obviously we wouldn't roll with that line up but it gives you an idea.

Even if you just added Dixon, Ebert, Gray, Jonas and Wines in place of Johnson, Farrell, Motlop, Drew and Burton this week, we'd go up to 110.7 games on average.

That's why I say not to judge this team until everyone is on the park.
The main problem there is this team is unlikely to get everyone on the park and in form, due to aforementioned bubble of age/durability decline, and because of that ticking clock is unlikely ever to.

Last year was the window closing.
 

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The Hall of Fame event and new inductees is on in 2 or 3 weeks time.

In the list below - on the left, 11 of the 13 names are in the HoF, with only WAFL's Tyson and Port's Tim Evans not inducted.

Of the 13 on the right hand side - Titus, McKenna, Lloyd, Matthews, Moloney Davies and Quinlan ie 7are in. Buddy doesn't qualify yet but will be inducted makes 8.

Tim Evans one day has to get inducted.

[B]Aussie Rules Infographics[/B]‏ @[B]AussieRulesInfo[/B] Mar 20
The full picture.

1557900730229.png
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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Holy **** you guys, that draftguru site is amazing

Here's Ports Average List Age under Hinkley vs Finishing Position:

2013 - 48.6 games (14th) - finished 5th
2014 - 54.4 games (15th) - finished 3rd
2015 - 62 games (8th) - finished 9th
2016 - 66.9 games (6th) - finished 10th
2017 - 62.2 games (9th) - finished 7th
2018 - 72.5 games (2nd) - finished 9th
2019 - 68.8 games (6th) - currently 11th

So under Hinkley, the two years we've peformed best, we were among the youngest lists in the league.

The seasons we've been most dissatisfied with we've finished outside the eight, and with our oldest lists under Hinkley.

Even when we made the finals in 2017, it was after a drop in our average list age.

LOL
 

edgie

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Chael Sonnen: Moral Champion
So hang on

Adelaide beat us because they played a game designed to do exactly that?

Those scoundrels! Surely this should be against the rules! How can we possibly compete in this league with other team being allowed to be a style of football that does us no favours? What if the other clubs cotton on to this? Playing to win? Revolutionary!
 
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Holy **** you guys, that draftguru site is amazing

Here's Ports Average List Age under Hinkley vs Finishing Position:

2013 - 48.6 games (14th) - finished 5th
2014 - 54.4 games (15th) - finished 3rd
2015 - 62 games (8th) - finished 9th
2016 - 66.9 games (6th) - finished 10th
2017 - 62.2 games (9th) - finished 7th
2018 - 72.5 games (2nd) - finished 9th
2019 - 68.8 games (6th) - currently 11th

So under Hinkley, the two years we've peformed best, we were among the youngest lists in the league.

The seasons we've been most dissatisfied with we've finished outside the eight, and with our oldest lists under Hinkley.

Even when we made the finals in 2017, it was after a drop in our average list age.

LOL
Yep been saying it for years about draftguru.

Forget his name, but it was a Bigfooty poster who got pissed off, about 5 or 6 years ago with lack of info on the net about draft info, proper trade info, lists etc. Think he gets help from a few others here on Bigfooty.
 

It Just Is

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Yea that’ll work make clubs need pay to play AFLX.
This has Koch written all over it. We dropped the ball on AFLW, need something to butter up the masses as an excuse for dropping the ball on China, and then a spin off franchise (which will directly compete with the crows women’s team) drops in our laps.

Yep, we’ll be going hard at this.
 

Janus

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Holy **** you guys, that draftguru site is amazing

Here's Ports Average List Age under Hinkley vs Finishing Position:

2013 - 48.6 games (14th) - finished 5th
2014 - 54.4 games (15th) - finished 3rd
2015 - 62 games (8th) - finished 9th
2016 - 66.9 games (6th) - finished 10th
2017 - 62.2 games (9th) - finished 7th
2018 - 72.5 games (2nd) - finished 9th
2019 - 68.8 games (6th) - currently 11th

So under Hinkley, the two years we've peformed best, we were among the youngest lists in the league.

The seasons we've been most dissatisfied with we've finished outside the eight, and with our oldest lists under Hinkley.

Even when we made the finals in 2017, it was after a drop in our average list age.

LOL
Looking at the average age of an entire list is a complete waste of time. A premiership list will continually have 250+ gamers retiring and being replaced by draftees that won’t get a game for years but will still lower the average age of the team.

You need to look at the players that would actually be getting games and not the players that are only there to fill out the list and provide salary cap relief.

Also, the years when we performed the best just happened to be when the interchange cap was set at 120 and the sub was trialed, which meant a young team could perform better than older teams that needed more rest.
 

Janus

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Injuries are just an excuse that bad clubs make to justify poor performance.
No, injuries are just a reality in elite level sport.

But you can fire up your PlayStation and play AFL Evolution where losing all that experience doesn’t matter if you like.
 

Butters Made Me Do It

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Looking at the average age of an entire list is a complete waste of time.
Weird, because I'm responding to your stat in kind.

Looking at Games Missing With Injury is a waste of time if you don't recognise that our playing list is very experienced (bumping up those numbers given we have much the same number of list spots as every other side), and that the chance that all of those late career players will come back at form matching, say, 19 year old 8-gamer Connor Rozee, is very low.

I mean honestly, adding every one of Robbie Gray's 205 games to your Games Missing, when this season he's been in the absolute worst form of his career, is frankly laughable.
 

TeeKray

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No, injuries are just a reality in elite level sport.

But you can fire up your PlayStation and play AFL Evolution where losing all that experience doesn’t matter if you like.
Nobody cares. We have a list of 46 for a reason. Find a way to get it done. That's what good clubs do (eg Richmond).
 

oriXon

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AFL Injury List by Experience. Interesting to see Port's 4th worst even with all the games of Mayes, McKenzie and Trengove sitting in the SANFL.


View attachment 674273
odd, I wonder where the creator of this content got their data from?

Gibbs - 258
Douglas - 238
Jacobs - 198
Seedsman - 90
Milera - 48
Doedee - 21

Total - 853. That's a far cry from the 267 that they're claiming..

Even if you want to remove Gibbs because he was a precautionary withdrawal, it's still 595 games..
 

Janus

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Weird, because I'm responding to your stat in kind.

Looking at Games Missing With Injury is a waste of time if you don't recognise that our playing list is very experienced (bumping up those numbers given we have much the same number of list spots as every other side), and that the chance that all of those late career players will come back at form matching, say, 19 year old 8-gamer Connor Rozee, is very low.

I mean honestly, adding every one of Robbie Gray's 205 games to your Games Missing, when this season he's been in the absolute worst form of his career, is frankly laughable.
They don’t need to come back at form straight away. They just need to be in form when it counts.

And I’ve already said that Gray is used to Dixon taking the best defender for the past couple of years. I’m backing him in to get back to his best when Charlie is back.
 

sobrave

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They don’t need to come back at form straight away. They just need to be in form when it counts.

And I’ve already said that Gray is used to Dixon taking the best defender for the past couple of years. I’m backing him in to get back to his best when Charlie is back.
huh? the type of defender that would play on gray OR dixon would basically never be the same player.

dixon would take the best tall defender, gray the best small. so in that sense it makes no difference. talia is not gonna play on gray for example./
 
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odd, I wonder where the creator of this content got their data from?

Gibbs - 258
Douglas - 238
Jacobs - 198
Seedsman - 90
Milera - 48
Doedee - 21

Total - 853. That's a far cry from the 267 that they're claiming..

Even if you want to remove Gibbs because he was a precautionary withdrawal, it's still 595 games..
So its Milera + Jacobs + Doedee. Not sure how they construed that, assuming something to do with players being dropped.
EDIT: Nope! Its because on AFL injury list the others are marked as 'Test' so assume they're omitted
 
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