Mega Thread Port Forum 'General AFL Talk' Thread Part 3

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Schulzenfest

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No one rates us - good. You know who is supposed to rate us? People who call themselves supporters.
This whole conversation started because somebody was whingeing about some Victorian journo ranking us below St Kilda, Melbourne and Collingwood. Journos aren't 'people who call themselves Port Adelaide supporters'.

I do have some hope for this season, but it's based almost entirely on my optimism that having Paddy Ryder back and playing him as a full time ruck will have a transformative effect on our midfield. If he goes down, we're midtable at best.
 

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Portmanteau

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"In Australia, the five year survival rate for chronic lymphocytic leukaemia is around 79%"

Treatment



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You just get the feeling he's going to pull through, don't you?
 

Byrons Firen

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The only flaw in people thinking we will finish bottom 4 is that they totally underestimate our depth. Our list is as strong as it has ever been and the Magpies should be favs to take out the SANFL flag. That alone makes a huge difference in a 28 week season.

Additionally we've proven time and time again that our problem isn't that we are bad, it is that we just aren't that good.
Spot on. The Key is the 'new' gameplan. I saw enough v Hawthorn to believe Ken has finally :( seen fit to employ
pretty basic stuff that's common to the well drilled teams.
more direct leads to the ball carrier.
shorter passes to keep possession i.e. less long bombs.
man out the back as a go to from clearances if quick forward options don't present.
Our depth is deeper by miles, it's up to Ken to use it. This is what bothers me the most. If he gets it right top eight is definitely on.
 

Valentino

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Being emotionally burned by the same players and coaches two years running absolutely entitles supporters to pessimism. No one wants the club to fail.
Being emotionally burned by the same players and coaches two years running absolutely entitles pessimists to pessimism. No optimist wants the club to fail.

It needed a little tweeking.
 

Doctor Feel

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AFL payments to clubs revealed, Giants handed $21 million

1. GWS Giants: $21,548,374
2. St Kilda: $18,566,589
3. Western Bulldogs: $17,610,181
4. Brisbane Lions: $17,532,922
5. Gold Coast Suns: $17,194,594
6. North Melbourne: $15,022,303
7. Melbourne: $14,799,452
8. Port Adelaide: $13,206,665
9. Sydney Swans: $12,488,957
10. Richmond: $12,358,925
11. Essendon: $11,914,715
12. West Coast Eagles: $11,703,240
13. Hawthorn: $11,614,683
14. Carlton: $11,607,942
15. Collingwood: $11,304,689
16. Geelong Cats: $10,787,483
17. Fremantle: $10,563,307
18. Adelaide: $10,553,565

All clubs received an $8.188 million base payment and a $1.2 million bonus payment.

Extra payments included equal and disequal financial assistance, prize money, and distributions from Etihad Stadium signage rights.

The figure handed out by the AFL takes into account a club’s financial circumstances, stadium deals and historical costs.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...k=7917132b5bac8255fde11e0f03910505-1489745846
 

Janus

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**** off.

You're talking about people who pay for expensive memberships and turned up every week over the last 2 years and turned up every week over the Primus years.

At the end of 2014 I had as as flag favourites for 2015 because Hinkley seemed like a magical coach and we had enormous momentum.

At the end of 2015 I saw our down season as an aberration that would be corrected with an adjustment to our gameplan, improved form and an easy draw.

Football supporters most certainly don't usually get the team they deserve. Being overly positive and ignoring the last 2 seasons of regression doesn't make you a better supporter than anyone and if the coaches have the same total lack of criticism that you have, it would probably explain why they didn't fix any of our obvious gameplan and ball movement issues in the 15/16 offseason.

I expect us to be better than last season and I expect us to make the 8, but we won't achieve any real success while we have gameplan issues that are incompatible with real success. If the coaches have made some adjustments then we have as much talent as anyone and should contend.
At the end of 2014, we brought in Ryder as another forward and to give Lobbe a chopout in the ruck - to basically play a forward line of Schulz/Ryder/Westhoff - which is what you wanted, remember? A third tall? Ryder > Butcher as a forward. It didn't work because Lobbe was only ever as good as the effort the midfield put in around him - as soon as he got a five year deal on the back of their hard work they were all 'The ****?' and stopped giving a shit when he was in the ruck. Why get beat up so someone else can get paid? Add to that the loss of our one true linebreaker in Polec for the year, and it was just a cluster**** of getting ahead of ourselves and not wanting to go again.

Fine, says Hinkley, and goes out to get Dixon to replace Ryder in the forward line, and puts Ryder in the ruck. 2016 rolls around, and we get zero, repeat, zero games with our prime combination because Ryder gets suspended and Schulz goes down and is never the same, leaving us with a forward line of Dixon and Westhoff and a Lobbe that no one wants to play with (and I say this with absolute certainty after seeing the stark change in performance as soon as Lobbe went into ruck against Richmond in the JLT). He get injured anyway and we are forced to ruck Trengove (who improves our performance not because he's a better ruck than Lobbe but because the players actually respect him).

Anyone who compares 2015 to 2016 is crazy. They are completely and utterly unrelated.

2017 will be the FIRST year we've had the forward line and structure that Hinkley has craved since his time here, with Eddy playing the Schulz role, Dixon playing the Ryder role and Trengove playing the Westhoff role...freeing up Ryder to ruck and Westhoff to basically move to where he is needed most. It will be the first year we have adequate depth in the Magpies through the likes of Snelling, Drew, Atley, Bonner, Lienert, Palmer, Austin, Frampton etc. that isn't just treading development water but actively and aggressively pushing for selection each and every week.

Ken said many times during the year to Chad Cornes to tell the Magpies boys to put in a good performance because we needed to make changes - but none of them managed to do so consistently enough that we could drop an established player and actually expect improvement. His methodology as a coach is that you get selected based on your own form, not on the loss of form of others. Say what you want about guys like Newton and Moore, but they put in consistent performances every single week in the SANFL - it's no surprise to me that our best period for the midfield coincided when there was adequate pressure from underneath to keep producing good performances. That's why we went all out and sacrificed our first round draft pick this year to get more depth through the mid - so our starting midfield would feel that same pressure from the reserves that they did in 2013/2014.

The only major change we are rolling with that is different from 2015 is Westhoff instead of White on the wing and a more mobile defensive unit to cope with the tendency for scores to be based on turnover in the modern game.

I'm still expecting top four. Unlike St.Kilda, our forward line is three dimensional - instead of three forwards that pretty much do the same thing, we've got guys like Dixon (contested mark/pack crashing specialist), Eddy (lead up specialist), Trengove/Ryder (athletic resting ruck), Wingard/Gray (opportunist small forward) and Young (balanced medium forward). Unfortunately for us, during the JLT we played two games in horrendous conditions against Richmond and Hawthorn and the other against an aggressively defensive minded team in St Kilda, so the opportunity to show any improvement in skill was greatly diminished - but I believe that our skills have improved and by quite a bit - 70% DE against Hawthorn in that wind proves that for mine.

There are no adjustments made by the coaches. That would imply that they instructed our players not to lower their eyes and kick the ball to someone other than Dixon or Wingard with long bombs, which is so ludicrous I can't even begin to contemplate the idiocy of anyone who actually believes it was part of the game plan.
 

theDuckFarmer

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AFL payments to clubs revealed, Giants handed $21 million

1. GWS Giants: $21,548,374
2. St Kilda: $18,566,589
3. Western Bulldogs: $17,610,181
4. Brisbane Lions: $17,532,922
5. Gold Coast Suns: $17,194,594
6. North Melbourne: $15,022,303
7. Melbourne: $14,799,452
8. Port Adelaide: $13,206,665
9. Sydney Swans: $12,488,957
10. Richmond: $12,358,925
11. Essendon: $11,914,715
12. West Coast Eagles: $11,703,240
13. Hawthorn: $11,614,683
14. Carlton: $11,607,942
15. Collingwood: $11,304,689
16. Geelong Cats: $10,787,483
17. Fremantle: $10,563,307
18. Adelaide: $10,553,565

All clubs received an $8.188 million base payment and a $1.2 million bonus payment.

Extra payments included equal and disequal financial assistance, prize money, and distributions from Etihad Stadium signage rights.

The figure handed out by the AFL takes into account a club’s financial circumstances, stadium deals and historical costs.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...k=7917132b5bac8255fde11e0f03910505-1489745846
Woo hoo "have not"!
 

El_Scorcho

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Look i'd agree with you, but Hinkley had the opportunity to play the structure he apparently craved, just not with his best players.

I agree that Lobbe completely shitting the bed and forgetting how to play hurt, and having to move Ryder to ruck ruined that plan a bit. But instead of picking the obvious next tall forward in line to maintain the structure, Ken completely abandoned the structure and we had problems all season in moving the ball.

If Ken cared about playing adequate talls he would have played those talls and taught his players how to play to that system while he waited to find the perfect lineup of bigs. I just can't believe that a coach who "really wants to play a 3 KPF structure" would have spent the vast majority of his time coaching playing a 1 KPF structure. It doesn't make sense.

I agree that the personnel issues between 2015 and 2016 were different, but I saw the same major issue really. If we win the stoppages we're fine, although we don't enter the forwardline well, but we manage. If we have to move the ball from defence to attack we play into the hands of opposition sides by not kicking to the advantage of our players, turn the ball over and concede. When moving the ball we see very little movement ahead of the ball, we see the ball user either shrug his shoulders and bomb, or try a 1-2 handball to generate some run, or we see a turnover. Every other team in the league seems to have a basic system to move the ball forward through a zone. We don't seem to have any real system to do it. We rely on the big boot of Broadbent or the individual brilliance of Pittard or Ebert.

Until we have an adequate system for that, we might make the 8 on class, but we'll never really be successful. Our forwards will continue to underperform. We'll continue to get ground out of games by teams that we should be absolutely wiping off the park.

As i've said, I don't actually think our skills are that bad. Our apparent skill issues stem from our inability to deal with moving the ball through a zone.

Being emotionally burned by the same players and coaches two years running absolutely entitles pessimists to pessimism. No optimist wants the club to fail.

It needed a little tweeking.
God this is so dumb. Nobody posting here wants the club to fail. We just have some wildly different ideas on what is required for the club to succeed.

I swear to god i'm gonna start reporting posts where someone insinuates that people who aren't positive actively want the club to fail or are somehow lesser supporters. It's a pissweak, infuriating argument.
 

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Valentino

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God this is so dumb. Nobody posting here wants the club to fail. We just have some wildly different ideas on what is required for the club to succeed.

I swear to god i'm gonna start reporting posts where someone insinuates that people who aren't positive actively want the club to fail or are somehow lesser supporters. It's a pissweak, infuriating argument.
I guess we just differ on what piss weak looks like.
BTW, nowhere does it say pessimists want the club to fail.
In other news, a man was offended by a different opinion on an internet forum.
 

El_Scorcho

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I guess we just differ on what piss weak looks like.
BTW, nowhere does it say pessimists want the club to fail.
In other news, a man was offended by a different opinion on an internet forum.
This is some elite level spineless backflipping. Your parents should be so proud.
 

Power Girl

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Actually that is what tipped me over in regards from Ken going from the messiah to F#** you Ken! It was his gold passes for some and why the f*** wouldn't you give Butch a decent chance in the team to live or die. That and his bullshit of playing guys that were clearly injured.

He has this year to actually do his job professionally or mind that the door doesn't hit him on way out.

I'm sick of the matesy shit just play decent football with a decent game plan coach, or get out and let someone else do it.
 

DazalenkoUBewty

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Actually that is what tipped me over in regards from Ken going from the messiah to F#** you Ken! It was his gold passes for some and why the f*** wouldn't you give Butch a decent chance in the team to live or die. That and his bullshit of playing guys that were clearly injured.

He has this year to actually do his job professionally or mind that the door doesn't hit him on way out.

I'm sick of the matesy shit just play decent football with a decent game plan coach, or get out and let someone else do it.
I think it's time u jumped on the crows bandwagon...
 

El_Scorcho

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Maybe you can point out where I backflipped and maybe you can just pick on me and keep my family out of the argument.
Seems like you have a real handle on spineless.
You know exactly where you backflipped and now you're embarrassing yourself by trying to play the victim for some reason. It's really undignified.
 
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