Mega Thread Port Forum General AFL Thread Part 25

[PortPortPort]

If the coach isn't allowed to talk about umpiring in the press conference, how come it's OK for players to talk to the media during the week?

 

[manureid]

Do all new Crows recruits go to Entitlement Camp?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Do all new Crows recruits go to Entitlement Camp?

 

[Del165198]

Should I look up the thread when Luke "ducky" Shuey ducked into a free kick that ended our season after the siren?

 

[Festerz]

Should I look up the thread when Luke "ducky" Shuey ducked into a free kick that ended our season after the siren?

Nah you can read this quote from Ken Hinkley after that game:


"Port Adelaide will not seek an explanation from the AFL over the decision."

In his post match press conference Power coach Ken Hinkley said he had no qualms with the decision. He instead pointed to inaccurate goal kicking as being more of a disappointment.

"Kick straight, it's been our problem for large part of the year, we've worked really hard at it all year and haven't been able to convert the way we should," he said.

"It costs and hurts and obviously tonight more than you can imagine."

AFL says high contact free kick to Luke Shuey was correct, in West Coast's extra time win over Port Adelaide

The AFL umpiring department has given a tick of approval to the high contact free kick paid to Luke Shuey that resulted in his after-the-siren-goal in West Coast's thrilling win over Port Adelaide on Saturday night.

www.theage.com.au

Given the poor kicking of the Crows in that first half the exact same comments could and should have been made by the Crows instead of looking to blame ONE poor non-decision. Especially given the free run they got against the pies at home just a few weeks ago.

Yes- the umpiring was bad on Sunday but internalise the anger and move on.

And now they've had their players - the friggin captain no less - go public with his whingeing. FMD.

 

[Handyandy]

You post nothing on this board except bitching about other people's views. You're not smart enough to be as arrogant as you are, get back in your box.

Hypocrite

 

[Del165198]

Nah you can read this quote from Ken Hinkley after that game:


Port Adelaide will not seek an explanation from the AFL over the decision.

In his post match press conference Power coach Ken Hinkley said he had no qualms with the decision. He instead pointed to inaccurate goal kicking as being more of a disappointment.
"Kick straight, it's been our problem for large part of the year, we've worked really hard at it all year and haven't been able to convert the way we should," he said.


"It costs and hurts and obviously tonight more than you can imagine."

AFL says high contact free kick to Luke Shuey was correct, in West Coast's extra time win over Port Adelaide

The AFL umpiring department has given a tick of approval to the high contact free kick paid to Luke Shuey that resulted in his after-the-siren-goal in West Coast's thrilling win over Port Adelaide on Saturday night.

www.theage.com.au

Lol I'm not sure citing ken Hinkley is a great idea. Bet there were a few melts about us copping it sweet instead of saying something about it.

You're not going to change the outcome of the game. Everyone knows that. The best you can hope for us that if you draw enough attention to it, you get better umpiring in the future.

You can objectively say Adelaide gets better umpiring than us at home.

Look at gold coast and gws. They routinely get pounded by the umps, and it keeps happening because they have no fans to get upset, and an administration that just takes it.

We were getting absolutely reamed by the umps for the first part of the year. It gets brought up in the media (as you posted), and our umpiring has been much fairer since. We're even off the bottom of the free kick differential ladder.

Adelaide making a ruckus about it is the smart move to ensure they continue getting the home town umpiring in future.

 

[StueyDaDew]

Just for reference again

Did someone say KFC (I mean Specsavers).

 

[Festerz]

Lol I'm not sure citing ken Hinkley is a great idea. Bet there were a few melts about us copping it sweet instead of saying something about it.

There is a difference between spectators and supporters having a whine and having your club do it through the Captain publicly.

We were getting absolutely reamed by the umps for the first part of the year. It gets brought up in the media (as you posted), and our umpiring has been much fairer since. We're even off the bottom of the free kick differential ladder.

As I said in that post - Hinkley did it in general terms and seeking answers - blaming no single decision and not saying it cost games.

A huge difference between that and what the Crows are now doing.

They are looking like the self entitled whingers we always knew them to be. They'll get all the praise you would expect from the local press and ambassadors in Adelaide of course. But this will come back to bite them when it matters.

 

[Econopower]

Nah they don't need to cut corners. They need to get their players fit and healthy for future years and make some deep cuts at the end of this season and some more in 2024. Plus, they need some inspiration and confidence. And they need to get good footy people into the club.

They had 2 AFL listed players fit enough to be available for their reserves side last weekend, and its basically been in the 2 to 6 range for 2 months. That is unheard of. They are beaten in their heads before they get to the ground.

At the moment you play a s**t game and you probably don't get dropped as there is nobody to replace you.

There is no inspiration. Simpson doesn't help, he seems very uninspiring, resigned to not much he can do. He was a good 300 gamer mid fielder, but exciting wasn't a word you would use to describe the style of player he was.

There have been several examples of turning it around in 3 years from the depths of despair, but you need to clean out the dead wood and get good coaches and good footy people into admin to change things quickly.

I have said for over a decade on here, that the fundamental difference between a top 4 side and a bottom 4 sides is 4 players, players of All Australian quality ie made an All Oz side or just missed out - a KPD, a KPF, a midfielder and a ruckman. You can build a good side around these type of 4 key players.

I moved to Sydney in May 1992 and the swans were 3-1-3 and a few days later I went to the SCG and saw them lose to Richmond by 5 or 6 goals and it was the start of a 26 game losing streak, 15 that year then 11 next year and a 1 win in 34 games at the end of 1993 when it was only a 20 game season, and by mid 1994 it wasn't much better, and that stretch of games was a 3-47 record. I went to most of their losses at the SCG.

In the middle of the 1993 season the private owners handed back their licence and said we can't do this anymore. The AFL stepped in, supported them financially, and talked coaching legend Ron Barassi to coach the swans. Ron was past his bes,t but he was an evangelist for Australian Football having a national comp for 25 years, so he threw himself into the job, with some gurantees from the AFL, and brought in lots of proper football club people and ideas and had instant credibility with the players and whole club.

The AFL moved Alan Schwab there to help fix the swans as part of the Barassi move, but he died after being there a month, after a session with a hooker and drugs. They lucked out asking Richard Colless, who had moved to Sydney a few months earlier with work, to be chair - a bloke who was the first chair of an independent WAFC, was the first chair of WCE and stuck his hand in his pocket for $1m to help buy the licence when the VFL screwed both WCE and Brisbane and said you have 30 days to come up with $4m, not the 10 years we initially told you. And they went and approached ex brownlow medallist and star CHF Kelvin Templeton who was GM of MBF health fund or GM of a significant division of MBF, to become CEO.

So off field they got it right with bloody solid footy people in charge with coach, prez and CEO. They didn't know it at the time, but at the start of 1993 they appointed the right bloke as captain, 23 year old plumber from Wagga, Paul Kelly. They had a lot of priority picks, they blew the 1992 picks inc trading #1 for 2 players with WCE, who didn't contribute much, but did better in 1993 and 1994. And between 1994 and 1996 they found those 4 players - plus others.

Kelly became a star midfielder, they recruited Plugger who was 28 and in his prime, Roos who was 30, past his best but an on field general and coached players on field and Greg Stafford went from doing nothing for 2 or 3 years to breaking into the top 10 ruckmen in 1996, and the swans made a GF 3 years after they hit the bottom in 1993.

Barassi did his job over 2.5 years, he stayed on as a board member, they got a hungry new first up coach who had done well as an assistant and he helped them make their big jump in 1996 after a big improvement in 1995. Without the AFL's financial support they wouldn't have succeeded, but they put the right people in the right place to succeed.

Hawthorn were hopeless in 2004 and 2005, but with Jason Dunstall in the acting CEO role for about 8 months in 2004, he/they were driven to change things for the better. Ian Dicker didn't know a lot about footy, but he used his cheque book to stabilise the Hawks, had negotiated a great deal to give up the Waverley Park lease and delegated power to good football types.

They get a good young new coach, driven to succeed, they had a very good recruiting team in place for 2 or 3 years before the slump, in 2004 and 2005 they traded away asset players in Thompson and Hay, hide their mental health issues to maximize their trade value, nailed the 2004 and 2005 drafts partly due to pre Rd 1 priority picks each year and steal good footy people from Port - fitness boss Andrew Russell, Hardwick was going to stay at Port in an assistant role, but Clarko nabs him, Chris Pelchen was let go in December 2004 ( after Buckenara and co at the Hawks had recruited Roughead, Franklin and Lewis in the 2004 draft) as we didn't have the funds to keep our Melbourne office, so Clarko recruited him and in 2006 pinched long time development coach Geof Morris from us.

So like Sydney they get good footy people and have financial support/stability and they pinched the flag in 2008, maybe 2 or 3 years before they were expected to, but went from 2 years near the bottom. to finals 2 years later, then the flag the next year.

Even Port in 2011 hit the bottom and made a PF in 2014 and missed the GF by a kick, and have been a strong side since then. We were the pits in 2011. The SANFL almost took us over in June, we had no money, Alberton was very shaky, we got smashed by 138 pts then 165 pts, then the next week at home in Rd 22, we were 0.0 v 10.3 against the Bulldogs with 30 seconds of the first quarter to go, before Daniel Stewart took a mark 48m out and went back and goaled on the siren. But we did find Johnny Butcher who made sure the game was a basically a draw after 1/4 time and he lifted us for the last 2 games and helped us avoid the wooden spoon.

Did anyone in Rd 22 2011 at 1/4 time game say, Bob's your uncle, we will challenge for a GF in 3 years and 1 months time or was the despair there that we are 5-7 years away from it and need a long rebuilding??

We cut 7 players at the end of 2011 including Chad and Broges, and then between August 2012 and Christmas 2013 we cut another 18 players. I even started a thread called the Primus 26 and 16 of those 26 players were the core players in the 2013-15 seasons.

We didn't have great drafts in 2011 and 2012, but we drafted 2 star kids in Wingard in 2011 and then Wines in 2012 and traded for Ebert in 2011 and Monfries in 2012, all who made huge impacts in 2013-15 seasons and whilst we didn't have great priority picks like above, we worked the system to get compo picks by letting go Chaplin and Pearce and with one of those compo picks we got Hombnsch+ Neade who were big contributors between 2013-15 seasons.

But we also put in good footy people in the right spots. KT as CEO was an excellent selection, getting Burgess back and him building a fitness team was vital. Hinkley was a hungry new coach who wanted to prove those who failed to give him the top job at other clubs, wrong. KT employed Alan Richardson 6 weeks before Hinkley and Richo had a specific role to help develop the coaches and work with them. We lucked out that he didn't move his family to Adelaide in 2013 as his daughter was doing year 12, so he did the work of about 1.5 coaches as he had a lot of spare time with his family not being around. When Richo left we got Phil Walsh in. But we needed financial help to stabilise things. The June 2011 package the AFL put in place with the SANFL and moving to AO provided that.

WCE don't need the extra financial support like the above 3 examples needed. They are all templates the WCE can follow, rather than be a carbon copy of.

They need to get a coach who can inspire them. Hardwick has the credibility for instant respect and drive. Go get Don Pyke and Dean Cox back from Sydney's coaching panel if need be.

They need to beef up their fitness and medical departments. They aren't AFL fit enough. Go find a Burgess type. Half their injuries are collision type which nobody can do anything about, but the other half are soft tissue injuries. They have to get Yeo and a few others back to their best.

They need to get rid of the corporate type CEO and put in a footy first CEO. They did have footy ops boss Craig Vozzo in their midst, but lost him last year when he took up the Essendon CEO position. Maybe they can talk another good footy person, Mike Fitzpatrick, to replace his brother Paul as chairman.

He's not a footy person, but board member Justin Langer might be the right person to take over as director of coaching and drive higher standards and change his board oversight role, to a more hands on oversight role.

They need to nail most of their high draft picks and be prepared to trade away players or let free agents walk for compo picks.

There was nothing wrong with WCE trying to squeeze an extra flag or two out of the 2018 premiership squad and maybe pay them overs and back end contracts. Who knows how they would have gone without Covid. They didn't handle that well and the farce of WA being locked out of Oz for so long meant their 2022 season was covided when covid got into WA.

Now is the time for tough footy decisions. WA has a reputation for big boofy blokes making hard ruthless decisions, be it in politics, law or business. I don't see why footy would miss out.

They need to cut their 2023 contracted veterans or trade them away if they can - even get pick 69 like we got for Chad + Broges from GWS or give away pick 48 like we did for Monfries when we could have got him for zero, but we wanted to keep the 2 free agent compo picks for Chaplin and Pearce, not have them netted to 1 compo pick if we got Monfries for free.

We cut 7+9+9 players between 2011-13 trade and draft periods. WCE will probably have to do something similar

McGovern, Shuey, Hurn and Cripps are coming out of contract this year. They have to cut them or trade them away even for pick 60 or 70. McGovern is the 3rd highest player in the AFL this year according to the Herald Sun Rich 100 list I posted yesterday. Getting rid of him frees up a 1/13th of the cap space, to go chase other players.

In 2024 Yeo, Naitanui and Gaff are out of contract. Spend a s**t load of $$$ to fix up the first twos' injury issues otherwise trade them out and even pay 70% of their contract if you have to if you can trade them out. Trade out Gaff if you can and be prepared to pay up to 70% of the his contract. Moving on those 3 and paying 60-70% of their salary might still save upto $800k, the salary of one very good free agent player they can go and chase.

I said the difference between the top 4 and bottom 4 is basically 4 players that you build around. They have those 4 players in Tom Barrass 27, Tim Kelly 28, Oscar Allan 24 and Bailey Williams 23 who isn't the best ruckman in the league but can do a Greg Stafford and be a top 10 ruckman.

And Sheed, Duggan, Witherden, Darling, Waterman, Ryan, Jones, SPS, and Hunt give you a core group of 13 players you can build around during 2024-26 seasons.

When they played Port in Rd 6 they gave a big effort to keep us at bay. I reckon Barrass stopped Port from kicking 10 goals that day.

Their 2 first rounders from last years draft, Grinbey and Hewitt are good players, but its been hard to judge them given how poor the team has been playing and Hewitt has had injuries. They will get pick 1 this year and they maybe able to trade it for a couple of more top 10 picks to use on WA players, or keep it, if Harley Reid is that good and work on keeping him for 6-8 years and set him up financially like they set up Chris Judd, knowing they will eventually lose him.

They should get a compo pick like North did. North had 3 poor years and got 2 x 2023 priority picks which they had to trade away for players which they did for both in 2022. WCE should get 1 pick based on what the AFL did with North.

If the West Coast are prepared to be ruthless in the next 4 or 5 months and maintain it for the next few seasons I can see them playing finals in 2026 and pushing upward from there. If they don't, then they will remain cellar dwellers.

Excellent post. Too often clubs going through awful, prolonged downturns are treated like it is inevitable or independent of the decision making and internal governance of the club. But that is rarely true, which is also why there are so many examples of teams remaining poor even after receiving multiple high-end and priority picks.

 

[raptalia]

If the coach isn't allowed to talk about umpiring in the press conference, how come it's OK for players to talk to the media during the week?

I am probably in the minority but I think it is good that poor umpiring is highlighted for a change. I reckon more players should stand up and tell the world what they think. The commentators are muzzled and do not comment on umpiring decisions, coaches are muzzled and cannot comment so good on a player, albeit a Crow player, for having a whinge.

The AFL have admitted the Umpires got it wrong as they missed what footy supporters expect them to pick up.

 

[Festerz]

Poor Crows- a free missed. Meanwhile...from their last encounter at Adelaide Oval:

No Free

No Free

No Free, No Free

I am probably in the minority but I think it is good that poor umpiring is highlighted for a change

Nope- I think we are all with you on that.

But the thing to highlight is the imbalance of free kicks against particular sides and on particular grounds. And in particular the home ground advantage when it comes to umpiring decisions.

Something demonstrably proven by stats and vision over the years. And given that the Grand Final of our game is (except for covid years) ALWAYS played in Melbourne on the home ground of a half dozen Melbourne based clubs highlight how detrimental this is to the fairness and integrity of our national game.

You do it with clarity, statistics and speaking in general terms to highlight the truth.

Pointing out just one non decision in one game that does not go your way does not do that. It reeks of self entitlement and whingeing.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Bwahaha they're still whining!

 

[backtozero]

There's a proper way to do it (and I have no doubt we questions things through the right channels)

Playing it out through the media like the Tingles ain't it

We've tried the diplomatic way. It gets you nowhere.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

 

[Festerz]

Bwahaha they're still whining!

I assume they'll also cover that Izak Rankine throw the ball that resulted in the Taylor Walker goal?

 

[Handyandy]

We've tried the diplomatic way. It gets you nowhere.

Contraire. We have had decent umpiring since Hinkley’s measured, diplomatic response

 

[Alberton Proud]

Definite free kick to dawson imo. A cheating non decision.
In the finals the interstate teams are at a victorian disadvantage at the pointy end. Nothing new as per the old interstate games.
Buckley had a lot to say about collingwood but would not go even close to commenting upon.

Well knock me down with a feather ....

 

[gbear]

I assume they'll also cover that Izak Rankine throw the ball that resulted in the Taylor Walker goal?

Nah, they will never acknowledge that they throw the ball on a routine basis.

 

[Handyandy]

Ever

What a friggin whiner. As if he's the only player to miss out on a critical free.

Crows are gonna cop a walloping from other clubs over this OTT whingeing if they make finals. And they deserve it.

yep, and I am sure the afl umpiring department will have a lot of respect for Adelaides approach and pay them all of those 50/50 frees in future

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Nah they (WCE) don't need to cut corners. They need to get their players fit and healthy for future years and make some deep cuts at the end of this season and some more in 2024......
......
They need to beef up their fitness and medical departments. They aren't AFL fit enough. Go find a Burgess type. Half their injuries are collision type which nobody can do anything about, but the other half are soft tissue injuries. They have to get Yeo and a few others back to their best.

First important change made. Upset a mate former player, probably means its a very good move.

First Eagles domino falls as Waterman career in doubt

Long-time strength and conditioning manager Warren Kofoed will step down from his position at the end of the year, but some say he shouldn’t be the fall guy.

www.watoday.com.au

West Coast premiership hero Will Schofield has blasted the Eagles’ decision to part ways with Warren Kofoed, saying the long-time strength and conditioning manager shouldn’t be the fall guy for the club’s woes.

The Eagles announced on Monday night that Kofoed, who has been at the club for 15 years, will step down from his position at the end of the year “to pursue other opportunities”.

 

[backtozero]

Contraire. We have had decent umpiring since Hinkley’s measured, diplomatic response

You mean the PUBLIC response in the MEDIA?

 

[powermacs]

He should be wearing happy pants and a novelty whistle necklace dancing around to East 17.

He’s not that cool.

 

[Alberton Proud]

Do all new Crows recruits go to Entitlement Camp?

Yes, and they're tied to the hard done by tree

 

[Festerz]

We've tried the diplomatic way. It gets you nowhere.

Is that true?

On my dodgy back of an envelope calcs, at the conclusion of round 6 this year Port's free kick count was 125 FF/ 157 FA - including a 12-25 count in that first game against Brisbane. That is when Ken made his general comment about not understanding the free kick differentials against us - espec those paid for holding the man.

From round 7 on we have fared much better in free kicks - 164 FF/ 131 FA.

Even better - the disproportionate number of holding the man decisions made against us, the main focus of Hinkley's Round 6 questioning, has been turned around.

Whether this is by sheer luck, changes in our tackling methods, or the result of the AFL listening to what Ken had to say is not clear.

Regadless I think the stats speak for themselves. We have significantly fared better since round 6 in terms of the umpiring differential - without needing to go public with whining about specific decisions.

That's my take on it anyway. Of course the SANFL stuff is completely different.

And I just hate the look of coaches and captains publicly whining about individual decisions in a game played over a couple of hours. (especially when it's from those entitled campaigners at West Lakes).