Review Port overcome Dogs 86 - 69

[Doggy]

How many free kicks did we miss out on or give away because of the inconsistency? Maybe 5. Are you seriously claiming 5 free kicks changed the outcome of that game?


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Where was I saying it changed the outcome? You're the one making the claim.

It's far too simple to say it would or it wouldn't.

Giving the umpires a pass in any game based on whether you think it influenced the result or not is just stupid.

If it is incorrect, it is incorrect.

By the way, umpires certainly influence results whether they mean to or not. They are but one factor. Saying otherwise is naive

 

[Philthy1]

Where was I saying it changed the outcome? You're the one making the claim.

It's far too simple to say it would or it wouldn't.

Giving the umpires a pass in any game based on whether you think it influenced the result or not is just stupid.

If it is incorrect, it is incorrect.

By the way, umpires certainly influence results whether they mean to or not. They are but one factor. Saying otherwise is naive

I didn’t say you claimed the umpiring changed the result. I am saying it didn’t.

The things we can control are worth investing time and energy in. Fretting about whether the Doc free kick for holding the ball was correct or not when Port had a similar situation a couple of minutes later is a fruitless waste of energy.

When the game ended on Friday night I was frustrated that we had players slip over continually when Port didn’t. That Smith and Williams were caught holding the ball trying to play on and changing their minds. Allowed Port to dictate terms and take so many one on one forward 50 marks. That it seemed so easy for them to get the ball inside 50 when we struggled. That we have no genuine second ruck to English now that Martin is in decline. That we didn’t get a big bodied KPD in the off season.


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[Some Idiot]

I thought collarbones were 10+ weeks. That could be with natural healing though

Jong did in fact play a vfl grand final with a broken collarbone. Not one you would expect the docs to sign off on though.

 

[Doggy]

I didn’t say you claimed the umpiring changed the result. I am saying it didn’t.

The things we can control are worth investing time and energy in. Fretting about whether the Doc free kick for holding the ball was correct or not when Port had a similar situation a couple of minutes later is a fruitless waste of energy.

When the game ended on Friday night I was frustrated that we had players slip over continually when Port didn’t. That Smith and Williams were caught holding the ball trying to play on and changing their minds. Allowed Port to dictate terms and take so many one on one forward 50 marks. That it seemed so easy for them to get the ball inside 50 when we struggled. That we have no genuine second ruck to English now that Martin is in decline. That we didn’t get a big bodied KPD in the off season.


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Those were not play on by the way. Neither moved off their line.

And yes, Rozee did something similar but was afforded alot more time and was not penalised for simply laying on the ball.

I'm aware there are other issues bur simply dismissing a factor because it doesn't suit a narrative as it "cannot be controlled" isn't right.

Also, it can be controlled through the AFL themselves. There are certainly measures the governing body can put in place to minimise the rubbish the umpiring fraternity dish out regularly.

 

[Some Idiot]

i know Buku is promising, but he doesnt play lots of minutes because he's still a bit of a liability in some aspects of the game

What did he actually do to be rated as having such a negative impact on the 1st quarter? AFL Player Ratings claims:
"Using the most sophisticated algorithm ever applied to our game, we can assess every single action of every player, determine the impact of that action and provide points - either positive or negative towards that player's rating compared to his peers."
There's very little information on how the algorithm actually works. AFL Player Ratings would have to be one of the biggest myths in football.

 

[Proffessor]

So what, the game is live and situations change, O’Brien injured, Gardiner half injured someone had to go back to give support. We lost the game in the period, 4 goals in 20 minutes. These are times when coaches need to be on their game. I’m a Bevo fan but I thought it was poor and the stats back it up, too many easy marks inside 50. Wasnt the only reason we lost I know that but they could have went very defensive and aim for a counter attack goal. We lost so whatever we did didn’t work. On to next week


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You missed the point of my post. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have been sent back to defence. Had I been coaching would have sent him back immediately too.

However, I do appreciate the reason why he wasn't, which was he was being effective in his role as both a defensive secondary key forward, which importantly helped Naughton be more effective, plus he was also helping Martin as the back up ruck, which is an under appreciated but physically very taxing role. They were obviously concerned about 'robbing Peter to save Paul'.

It appears that Bevo was more concerned about maximising our attack than shoring up our defence, which was reasonable considering our Key Position defenders were pretty ineffectual on Friday night before the injuries yet we were still competitive on the scoreboard during that period.

 

[Bulldog in Kiev]

Not claiming the umps won or lost the game, my initial poitn is that there was no consistency between interpretations between the two teams on the same things. E.g. players being called played on resulting in two shots on goal when they did not, and Port players doing similar and not being called.
Port also seemed to get a lot of holding frees to their forwards, but in the third qtr Cordy was tackled as he went for a mark and was called play on.
There was also a few HTB paid against us, particulalry Duryea, yet Rozee does the same for a ball up.

Might not win the game but certainly can set the tone and you can see heads drop when this sort of consistency occurs, not just in our games but in all of them. Afl has become an over regulated game just like Australia as a country has.

As for the underlying issues, its a lack of any big man depth, lack of KPF and KPD depth or quality and heaps of players nowhere near their 2021 levels. Add in a game plan that seems to severely lacking,and thinking that just keeping my normal membership and not upgrading to social club was a smart move.

 

[Proffessor]

How was he being effective in the role they asked him to play? Genuinely interested.

Naughton kicked 4 goals 2 behinds, and Aliir Aliir Port's star intercept marking defender only took 2 marks for the game and was essentially ineffectual.
That didn't happen by accident.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Naughton kicked 4 goals 2 behinds, and Aliir Aliir Port's star intercept marking defender only took 2 marks for the game and was essentially ineffectual.
That didn't happen by accident.

Did Cordy impact that though, or was it that Aliir player more lockdown on Naughton than usual. I think what you said in another reply makes more sense in terms of him being utilised as a 2nd ruck which stopped Bevo putting him back.

Ultimately none of the options Bevo had were good ones

 

[Proffessor]

Did Cordy impact that though, or was it that Aliir player more lockdown on Naughton than usual. I think what you said in another reply makes more sense in terms of him being utilised as a 2nd ruck which stopped Bevo putting him back.

Ultimately none of the options Bevo had were good ones

Agree that Bevo was caught between a rock and a hard place.

I think the impact of Cordy was mainly that a lot more of Naughton's contests were 1 on 1 with his primary opponent regardless of who that opponent was at the time. Port would likely have preferred to have 1 opponent e.g. Jonas tightly marking Naughton, and having Aliir Aliir coming across to help double team/intercept and rebound.

 

[Al dente]

What did he actually do to be rated as having such a negative impact on the 1st quarter? AFL Player Ratings claims:
"Using the most sophisticated algorithm ever applied to our game, we can assess every single action of every player, determine the impact of that action and provide points - either positive or negative towards that player's rating compared to his peers."
There's very little information on how the algorithm actually works. AFL Player Ratings would have to be one of the biggest myths in football.

not really, they are a formulaic statistic which are always limited and dont give the full qualitative account.
but they give a good crude account of a player's impact which is far superior to just looking at possessions.
they are also empirically validated.

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/37076/1/Manuscript-IDSPO-17-0227with_Figures.pdf

"Percentage agreement and Pearson correlational analyses revealed that winning teams displayed a higher total team rating in 94.2% of matches, and an association of r = 0.96 (95% confidence interval of 0.95-0.96) between match score margin and total team rating differential, respectively. A PART analysis resulted in seven rules capable of determining the extent to which relative contributions of rating subcategories explain Win/Loss at an accuracy of 79.3%. These models support the validity of the AFL Player Ratings system, and its use as a pertinent system for objective player analyses in the AFL."

 

[Al dente]

So what, the game is live and situations change, O’Brien injured, Gardiner half injured someone had to go back to give support. We lost the game in the period, 4 goals in 20 minutes. These are times when coaches need to be on their game. I’m a Bevo fan but I thought it was poor and the stats back it up, too many easy marks inside 50. Wasnt the only reason we lost I know that but they could have went very defensive and aim for a counter attack goal. We lost so whatever we did didn’t work. On to next week


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Cordy was playing a defensive role on Aliir at the time. they were scared if they pulled the trigger Aliir would get off the chain, as such both Cordy and the coaches get a pass for this week for mine.

 

[Munnez]

Not that changes the end result but two two times our guys got called for play on after jab stepping and faking a handball was a disgrace. Ignoring the fact it’s not play on as they didn’t move off the line, both times the opposing Port player immediately grabbed our guy, what happened to the stand rule?

Lots of rules only applied to us on the night it seemed like.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

What was the clear evidence that overturned the Naughton goal?

The Duryea free was disgraceful, on its own, without being compared to the Rozee incident. HTB and play on were called ridiculously early for us. But umpiring wasn’t why we lost.

 

[Next Waiting]

Full breakdown coming in around 30 but just had to post these horrid ones...

Tackle Efficiency
WB: 51%
PA: 66%

Forward Half Turnovers
WB: 52
PA: 32

Pressure Gauge
Q1
WB: 186 (Average)
PA: 194 (Below Average)

Q2
WB: 164 (Poor)
PA: 171 (Below Average)

Q3
WB: 158 (Poor)
PA: 194 (Above Average)

Q4
WB: 153 (Poor)
PA: 186 (Average)

Match
WB: 166 (Poor)
PA: 186 (Average)

Must have been a line ball leaving this one out of your initial hall of horrors.

 

[ScragCity]

I knew we were in for a bad night when McNeil's goal was called a point without even requesting a review. Evidently it was still reviewed, but it was such a bizarre decision. It was obvious from that point that the match was fixed and we had no chance.

 

[Mutt]

How was he being effective in the role they asked him to play? Genuinely interested.

Cordy was blocking and opening up space for Naughton. He is very effective at it.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

What was the clear evidence that overturned the Naughton goal?

The Duryea free was disgraceful, on its own, without being compared to the Rozee incident. HTB and play on were called ridiculously early for us. But umpiring wasn’t why we lost.

I agree, it wasn’t the reason we lost, but it contributed to making it hard for us to win.

 

[doggies ftw]

People are absolutely ******* kidding themselves if they think Cordy had a positive effect on that forward line

 

[doggy heaven]

We will be fine this year, seeing the back of the dogs is a blessing. Sick of seeing the ducking, diving and throwing. Your team is a disgrace and it will be good to see the end of it. It was a blight on the game.

What a totoal flog you are. Piss of you utensil

 

[Next Waiting]

Without having reviewed the game and with no desire to do so, I'm left with an impression that we had too many going for the same ball around clearances too often leaving Port circling in space around the periphery and clearing with relative ease.

If this was a thing, I'm a little surprised, and would hope it is addressed immediately. Better defined roles around clearances and better communication.

If West does get a run, I'd like to see him in the middle going for the ball and leaving Libba, Macrae and Bont a little more to the outside as they have vision and can kick (off both feet) to a variety of options given a bit more space and time.

 

[NBates]

What a totoal flog you are. Piss of you utensil

I don't think he needs your compliments

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Without having reviewed the game and with no desire to do so, I'm left with an impression that we had too many going for the same ball around clearances too often leaving Port circling in space around the periphery and clearing with relative ease.

If this was a thing, I'm a little surprised, and would hope it is addressed immediately. Better defined roles around clearances and better communication.

If West does get a run, I'd like to see him in the middle going for the ball and leaving Libba, Macrae and Bont a little more to the outside as they have vision and can kick (off both feet) to a variety of options given a bit more space and time.

Yes. Noticed that especially in the first half.

Constant theme when we are performing badly- you would think our experienced midfield would be on to it.

 

[Lex22]

Lets be honest he's not all that good when healthy.
Good honest trier in the Dylan Addison model.

More dynamic and has a higher ceiling than that, the innocuous hamstring injuries as a young man are the main concern.

Surely he’d be better off taking more time to sort this out, head to an overseas specialist or something.

Whatever they’re doing now isn’t working.

 

[Claudonious]

I don't think he needs your compliments

The bears will fall over when it counts again. Nice to watch at times though.


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